Author Topic: Sicilian Dough ????  (Read 58851 times)

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Offline nepa-pizza-snob

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2006, 11:31:34 AM »
Any of you New Yorkers (current residents or otherwise) ever been to Spumoni Gardens in Brooklyn? Now they
make a sicilian style pizza that I remember. Thick light, airy dough with a crispy bottom topped with a bit o magic!


Offline joebot

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2006, 07:58:20 PM »
abc,

Thanks for the writeup. One of these days I will have to give the Sicilian a try. Maybe one of the recipes calling for semolina.

Peter

Hey I tried the one  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1073.msg19680.html#msg19680 and substituted 25% semolina, and increased the hydration to 63% for kicks and giggles LOL ...came out real well, even though I just have an aluminum sheet pan and not a "real " sicillian pan  :-D thanks for the formula !
 
 have a good week !
 
 Joe

Offline David

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2007, 10:21:46 PM »
I took my first stab at Marco's 100% semolina method that is at the beginning of this thread.I followed his weights & measures and made it simply - just adorned with sea salt.It made enough dough to fill two standard jelly roll pans.It was refrigerated overnight and then left out at room temp for about six hrs.I very lightly coated the pan and dough with evoo.It was cookd in the pan on a stone for about 12 min.I took it out of the pan after it was almost done and placed it on the stone for about two mins.It had a nice crisp bite (not a crunch ) and was fairly light.I had to hazard a guess with the amount of yeast as my scale batteries just died.I probably should have had a little more.My wife gave it two thumbs up however.
            David
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 10:30:54 PM by David »
If you're looking for a date... go to the Supermarket.If you're looking for a wife....go to the Farmers market

Offline David

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2007, 10:42:22 PM »
Here's the remainder of the second one that was made with Olives,Feta,Onions,San Marzanos,Oregano and EVOO.This was cooked longer and was crunchier due to that.I would have preffered it with oven dried toms,but I hadn't pre planned this in time.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 10:46:13 PM by David »
If you're looking for a date... go to the Supermarket.If you're looking for a wife....go to the Farmers market

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2007, 06:45:42 AM »
David, well done to you, I have just noticed those pictures.

Ciao

Offline RoadPizza

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2007, 07:06:43 PM »
Here's an old Sicilian recipe I found.  The ingredients are pretty interesting:

Sicilian Pizza

Ingredients:
5 qts.      Cold Water
7 qts.      Whole Milk
4-5 ozs.   Yeast
8 oz.      Salt
8 oz.      Sugar
50 lbs.      High Gluton Flour
3 lbs.      Block Butter
16 lbs.       Idaho Potatoes (Peeled, Boiled, & Mashed)

Method of Preparation:
Mix 9 minutes.
Cut & roll.

Yields: 45 32 oz. Dough Balls

Method of Cooking:
1)   Place in oven and bake at 550F.  Cooking time is approximately 10 – 15 minutes.  Sicilians are done when bottoms begin to brown.
2)   Remove from oven and allow to stand, in tray, at room temperature, to cool.
3)   Once cool, not warm, remove from tray and stack in the following manner:
Bottom Sicilian top up
Second Sicilian top down
Third Sicilian top up
Fourth Sicilian top down
   Continue in this manner.
   
NOTE: No more than 6 high, or you will crush bottom Sicilian.  Place in a plastic bag and refrigerate.  Sicilians should be prepared daily to ensure a fresh product.

Method of Serving:
1)   Take 1 Sicilian from refrigerator and place bottom side down in a clean, oiled Sicilian tray.
2)   Add 1 ladle of Pizza Sauce (10 oz.) and spread evenly over Sicilian.  Be certain to go right to the edge, (no crust), and include corners.
3)   Sprinkle with 16 oz. of Pizza Cheese.
4)   Bake until cheese begins to brown.

Portions Per Serving:
1)   1 Sicilian should be cut into 8 slices.
2)   Serve hot always.

Offline MWTC

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2007, 12:25:32 PM »
Here's an old Sicilian recipe I found.  The ingredients are pretty interesting:

Sicilian Pizza

Ingredients:
5 qts.      Cold Water
7 qts.      Whole Milk
4-5 ozs.   Yeast
8 oz.      Salt
8 oz.      Sugar
50 lbs.      High Gluton Flour
3 lbs.      Block Butter
16 lbs.       Idaho Potatoes (Peeled, Boiled, & Mashed)

Method of Preparation:
Mix 9 minutes.
Cut & roll.

Yields: 45 32 oz. Dough Balls

Method of Cooking:
1)   Place in oven and bake at 550F.  Cooking time is approximately 10 – 15 minutes.  Sicilians are done when bottoms begin to brown.
2)   Remove from oven and allow to stand, in tray, at room temperature, to cool.
3)   Once cool, not warm, remove from tray and stack in the following manner:
Bottom Sicilian top up
Second Sicilian top down
Third Sicilian top up
Fourth Sicilian top down
   Continue in this manner.
   
NOTE: No more than 6 high, or you will crush bottom Sicilian.  Place in a plastic bag and refrigerate.  Sicilians should be prepared daily to ensure a fresh product.

Method of Serving:
1)   Take 1 Sicilian from refrigerator and place bottom side down in a clean, oiled Sicilian tray.
2)   Add 1 ladle of Pizza Sauce (10 oz.) and spread evenly over Sicilian.  Be certain to go right to the edge, (no crust), and include corners.
3)   Sprinkle with 16 oz. of Pizza Cheese.
4)   Bake until cheese begins to brown.

Portions Per Serving:
1)   1 Sicilian should be cut into 8 slices.
2)   Serve hot always.


Peter,

Could/Would you convert this into bakers percents?

Seems interesting to me.  :)

MWTC  :chef:

Offline November

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2007, 01:17:59 PM »
Could/Would you convert this into bakers percents?
100.0000%   high-gluten flour
 32.0000%   potatoes, mashed
 30.1240%   milk, whole
 20.8635%   water
  6.0000%   butter
  1.0000%   salt
  1.0000%   sugar
  0.5625%   yeast (based on 4.5 oz)

Offline November

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2007, 01:40:01 PM »
I thought that maybe somebody might be interested in having this recipe converted to dry ingredients for easier portion management when preparing smaller batches.

100.0000%   high-gluten flour
 71.6128%   water
  7.7659%   potato flakes
  6.0000%   butter
  3.6088%   milk powder, whole fat
  1.0000%   salt
  1.0000%   sugar
  0.5625%   yeast


Offline MWTC

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2007, 01:56:30 PM »
Beautiful Red.November  ;D

Thank-you.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2007, 03:18:16 PM »
MWTC,

My recollection from a couple of your prior posts is that you have been using potato flour, not potato flakes. As it so happens, Bob's Red Mill sells both potato flakes and potato flour. The potato flakes are made from dehydrated Idaho Russet potatoes, which fits nicely with the original recipe, plus mono and diglycerides from vegetable oil, and citric acid. The potato flour is made from 100% dehydrated potatoes, but the particular variety of potatoes used is not mentioned on the label.

Most baked goods that use potatoes, such as breads, buns, rolls, donuts, etc., tend to use potato flour, so I think you should be able to substitute the potato flour you have been using for potato flakes. The quantity you would use, however, would be different. This shouldn't be a problem if you are using baker's percents/weights. Also, since both potato flour and potato flakes appear to have the same moisture content (about 6.5%), I don't think you will have to alter the formula hydration.

You may have already noticed that you can get dehydrated potato flakes in the supermarket. However, most such products usually include sodium bisulfite, which is added to prevent discoloration of the potatoes. The downside of the sodium bisulfite, according to Tom Lehmann, is that the bisulfite interferes with yeast activity if used in a dough product. So, I would tend to go with the unadulterated kind, whether it is the Bob"s Red Mill or some other comparable brand.

Peter

Offline MWTC

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2007, 03:27:29 PM »
Peter,

Wow, you are a fount of knowledge, impressive.

Thank-you

MWTC  :chef:

Offline November

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #62 on: May 15, 2007, 03:47:02 PM »
The two reasons I didn't mention potato flour, even though I knew MWTC has been using it already, are that more people have access to potato flakes, and the texture and flavor made from one versus the other would be different.  Rehydrated from flakes, the mixture would be smooth yet have more body to it.  This is because flakes are made by drum-drying actual mashed potatoes.  Rehydrated from flour, the mixture would be more like paste.  Also, potato flour is made from the whole potato, skin and all.  The recipe calls for "Peeled, Boiled, & Mashed" potatoes.  The only potato flakes I've seen seem to be made from peeled potatoes.  The subtle difference is apparent in the color.

If using potato flakes, definitely go with a brand that has as few a number of ingredients as possible.

- red.november

Offline MWTC

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2007, 03:51:16 PM »
Red.November

What would be the bakers percent for 100% pure potato flour for the recipe?

MWTC  :chef:

Offline November

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #64 on: May 15, 2007, 03:59:10 PM »
MWTC,

As Peter remarked, there would be no difference in how much you use.  I was only pointing out that there would be a texture difference.

- red.november

Offline MWTC

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #65 on: May 15, 2007, 04:19:02 PM »
Red.November

Peter wrote "The quantity you would use, however, would be different." thats why I asked what would be the percent. He said I could subtitute one for the other but as stated in the quote...

MWTC  :chef:

Offline November

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #66 on: May 15, 2007, 04:21:16 PM »
This shouldn't be a problem if you are using baker's percents/weights. Also, since both potato flour and potato flakes appear to have the same moisture content (about 6.5%), I don't think you will have to alter the formula hydration.

MWTC,

The above quote is what is relevant in your case since you're using baker's percentages.

EDIT: If Peter wasn't referring to volume quantity differences, then he would be wrong (assuming an equal weight of "potato" is used in either case), but I believe Peter meant there would be a quantity difference if measuring by volume because of the difference in product form.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 04:26:03 PM by November »


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2007, 04:38:16 PM »
MWTC,

Yes, I was referring to the volumes being different. I should have been clearer on that point.

I might also add that I agree that, as between potato flakes and potato flour, the better choice for the recipe in question would be the flakes version, for the reasons noted by me and November. In my case, I couldn't find the flakes in any of the stores where I shop, although I found the potato flour (Bob's Red Mill), and it wasn't all that important to me at the time to order the flakes version to be shipped to me. I subsequently ended up with potato flour that I purchased along with other items from an online source of baking products. And that source didn't carry the flakes. I thought of using the supermarket potato flakes, and to increase the amount of yeast to compensate for the sodium bisulfite effects, but never got around to doing that.

In any event, I think it is terrific to have a "dry" version as proposed by November. In fact, with that version, I think you should be able to use the new Expanded Dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html. Just enter the baker’s percents for the dry milk in either of the two dry milk boxes and enter the potato flakes/potato flour baker’s percent in the potato flour box. Just be sure to use only the weights in the output data for these two items, not the volumes. Of course, you will need to have a particular starting dough weight in mind to use the tool. Or, alternatively, you can try using a thickness factor like 0.12-0.13, which seems to be typical of a Sicilian style dough, and make the other entries called for by the calculator.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 04:44:16 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline MWTC

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2007, 04:39:57 PM »
OK, thanks for the clarification. That makes sense, just wanted to be sure.  :-\

MWTC  :chef:

Offline November

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2007, 05:15:41 PM »
Peter,

If you're worried about the yeast being affected by the bisulfite (which it certainly will in sufficient quantities), you can always in advance perform an autolyse-like procedure of hydrating the potato flakes in the formula water and add just a small amount of vinegar.  The acetic acid in the vinegar will react with any sodium bisulfite to neutralize it.  In the process, sulfur dioxide will be released.  If you can't detect a foul odor (sulfur dioxide is pretty strong) from the reaction, there probably isn't enough in there to cause much damage to the yeast.  If you can detect it, just wait until it stops smelling and proceed as normal.

If I knew exactly how much sodium bisulfite gets added to the brand of potato flakes in your supermarket, I could tell you exactly how much vinegar to add.  If one uses "breadmaker" yeast that has ascorbic acid included, one shouldn't have to worry as much about the bisulfite.

- red.november

Offline beanapsmom

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2007, 07:44:46 AM »
New to this forum and have a question.

We visited Sicily last year, Castellammare del Golfo, and the pizza was out of this world.  My husband said that it was just like his grandmother use to make.  The pizza was more like the post from CanuckJim October 2006 - chewy - inch and a half thick with just sauce on it.  We had many variations of this in Sicily and I would love to recreate this dough.  I will continue to search this forum but so far I haven't seen anything similar.  If there is something I missed. point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Valerie

Offline DaveH

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2007, 11:00:12 PM »
Visited Mama Lucia's this past weekend (Wood St.) in downtown Pittsburgh. The Sicilian pizza was very good but don't look around the shop!
Cleanliness isn't one of their strong points!

I did, however, enjoy the pizza (and the Primanti Brothers the next day). I'm inspired to try Sicilian again. My dough doesn't rise as much though...

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2009, 11:10:02 PM »
Can someone put Marcos semolina recipe into percents please.

Offline Matthew

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #73 on: December 24, 2009, 07:07:25 AM »
Can someone put Marcos semolina recipe into percents please.


1000g Fine Semolina Flour 100%
750g Water                         75%
7g IDY                                . 7%
25g Sea Salt                       2.5%
50g EVO                                5%

If you attempt it, let me know how it turns out.  I'm going to make it this weekend.  I'm still undecided on whether I'm doing it Sicilian style or roman style.

Matt

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #74 on: December 24, 2009, 09:32:25 AM »
I'm not doing it this week but I will be doing it the week after. I have to make a bunch of pizza's for my neigbor and she is going to pay me ;D. I have wanted to try this out for the past couple weeks. I will definatly post pictures. I have GM semolina #1 can I use that, or is there a finer semolina like the fineness of a flour?