Author Topic: Sicilian Dough ????  (Read 53470 times)

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Offline Artale

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Sicilian Dough ????
« on: March 18, 2005, 03:16:05 PM »
Is there a different flour mixture when it comes to making
square pizza.  Does anyone have a recipe for making it?


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2005, 09:17:25 PM »
Artale,

From what I have seen since being a member of this forum, not much has been done with Sicilian style pizzas. One of our members recently posted a recipe for Sicilian pizza that he found somewhere on the Internet (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1021.msg9105.html#msg9105), but if you are interested in one that Tom Lehmann of the American Institute of Baking recommends for professional pizza operators, I have posted below the list of ingredients and baker's percents. Unfortunately, the recipe doesn't give actual weights to be able to calculate the amount of dough you will need to make a particular size Sicilian pizza. But all is not lost. Some fairly standard pizza sizes and related dough ball weights are generally well known and can be used. They are as follows: 9'' (10 oz.), 10" (11 oz.), 12" (15-16 oz.), 14" (22 oz.), 15" (25 oz.), and 10" x 14" (22 oz.). If you decide you like Tom Lehmann's recipe and can decide on a size you'd like to make, let me know and I think I may be able to come up with a list of ingredients and amounts for you to try out. Generally, you should try to use a dark, anodized, well-seasoned pan to make a Sicilian pizza. Here is the information on Tom Lehmann's recipe (I can decipher the instructions if you need help):

Flour: 100% (11.5% protein, typical bread flour)
Salt: 2.5%
Olive oil: 5.0%
Yeast (as compressed) 2.0%
Water: 58.0% (+/-)

Targeted finished dough temperature: 75 to 80F. Scale, ball, box, oil the dough balls, cross stack in the cooler for 2 hours, down stack and nest dough boxes, use after 18 hours. Remove from cooler and allow to warm at room temperature for 60 to 90 minutes, press dough into oiled pans, allow to rise for about 40 minutes, or to give desired crust thickness. Bake at 525F. This also makes a pretty decent focaccia too.

As an alternative to the Lehmann recipe, you might also want to take a look at another Sicilian dough recipe, by Big Dave Ostrander, a colleague of Tom Lehmann's. Big Dave's recipe differs from Lehmann's recipe in a few ingredient particulars but the main difference is in the preparation techniques. The Big Dave Sicilian dough recipe is at http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/read/1635. Don't worry about the PZ-44. That's a dough conditioner that you shouldn't need. If that recipe interests you, I can help you work out the particulars for your case if you don't have experience with using baker's percents.

A third possibility is this one: http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/05_Dough-making/10_dough_recipe.htm. You might want to consider the test pizza in the right-most column, although you will need to either weigh some of the ingredients or convert from weights to volume.

Peter

EDIT (2/1/2013): For an alternative Correll link, see http://web.archive.org/web/20040606221443/http://correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/05_Dough-making/_05_dough-making.htm
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 02:41:16 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline scott r

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2005, 04:03:40 AM »
I have a friend with a grandmother from Sicily that makes pizza for the family here in Boston all the time.  I am working on getting the recipe right now.  I know she insists on doing it by hand for some reason.  She only makes true Sicilian square pizza, so she might be a good source for you. 

The best Sicilian I have ever had is in Pittsburgh at Mama Lucia's.  I have gotten samples of their sauce, and it seems to be uncooked super high quality crushed tomatoes with no other seasoning.  They let the dough rise in pans sitting by the oven for a while, then pour olive oil on the dough.  Next they put sauce on the pizza.  The pizzas then go in the oven for a while with no cheese or toppings.  Finally they add a little more sauce, a sprinkle of oregano, and cheese etc. and finish the pies off with one more round in the oven.

Offline Artale

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2005, 05:05:16 PM »
Artale,

From what I have seen since being a member of this forum, not much has been done with Sicilian style pizzas. One of our members recently posted a recipe for Sicilian pizza that he found somewhere on the Internet (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1021.msg9105.html#msg9105), but if you are interested in one that Tom Lehmann of the American Institute of Baking recommends for professional pizza operators, I have posted below the list of ingredients and baker's percents. Unfortunately, the recipe doesn't give actual weights to be able to calculate the amount of dough you will need to make a particular size Sicilian pizza. But all is not lost. Some fairly standard pizza sizes and related dough ball weights are generally well known and can be used. They are as follows: 9'' (10 oz.), 10" (11 oz.), 12" (15-16 oz.), 14" (22 oz.), 15" (25 oz.), and 10" x 14" (22 oz.). If you decide you like Tom Lehmann's recipe and can decide on a size you'd like to make, let me know and I think I may be able to come up with a list of ingredients and amounts for you to try out. Generally, you should try to use a dark, anodized, well-seasoned pan to make a Sicilian pizza. Here is the information on Tom Lehmann's recipe (I can decipher the instructions if you need help):

Flour: 100% (11.5% protein, typical bread flour)
Salt: 2.5%
Olive oil: 5.0%
Yeast (as compressed) 2.0%
Water: 58.0% (+/-)

Targeted finished dough temperature: 75 to 80F. Scale, ball, box, oil the dough balls, cross stack in the cooler for 2 hours, down stack and nest dough boxes, use after 18 hours. Remove from cooler and allow to warm at room temperature for 60 to 90 minutes, press dough into oiled pans, allow to rise for about 40 minutes, or to give desired crust thickness. Bake at 525F. This also makes a pretty decent focaccia too.

As an alternative to the Lehmann recipe, you might also want to take a look at another Sicilian dough recipe, by Big Dave Ostrander, a colleague of Tom Lehmann's. Big Dave's recipe differs from Lehmann's recipe in a few ingredient particulars but the main difference is in the preparation techniques. The Big Dave Sicilian dough recipe is at http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/read/1635. Don't worry about the PZ-44. That's a dough conditioner that you shouldn't need. If that recipe interests you, I can help you work out the particulars for your case if you don't have experience with using baker's percents.

A third possibility is this one: http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/05_Dough-making/10_dough_recipe.htm. You might want to consider the test pizza in the right-most column, although you will need to either weigh some of the ingredients or convert from weights to volume.

Peter


Thank you peter!!!



Offline scott r

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2005, 12:21:36 AM »
Here is my friend's Sicilian grandmothers dough recipe.  There is obviously some preparation info missing, but I figured I would give you what I was given.  If I were you I would also experiment with some longer rise times with this recipe.  Any suggestions?

1/4 cup warm water
1 envelope active dry yeast
1 teaspoon sugar
3 1/2 cups bread flour
1/2 cup pastry flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 1/4 cup cold water
1 tablespoon olive oil

mix by hand until it forms a ball.  put dough ball in oiled bowl and let sit for 1 hour.  punch down dough.  split into two dough balls and let sit for 1/2 hour.  cook on stone at 500 in a glass pan.

Offline Artale

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2005, 09:12:56 AM »
Here is my friend's Sicilian grandmothers dough recipe.á There is obviously some preparation info missing, but I figured I would give you what I was given.á If I were you I would also experiment with some longer rise times with this recipe.á Any suggestions?

1/4 cup warm water
1 envelope active dry yeast
1 teaspoon sugar
3 1/2 cups bread flour
1/2 cup pastry flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 1/4 cup cold water
1 tablespoon olive oil

mix by hand until it forms a ball.á put dough ball in oiled bowl and let sit for 1 hour.á punch down dough.á split into two dough balls and let sit for 1/2 hour.á cook on stone at 500 in a glass pan.


Scott thank you for the recipe!!!

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Sicilian Dough = semolina
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2005, 07:25:48 PM »
True Sicilian pizza is made with fine semolina flour.

I can give you a cross-mix of roman pizza and Sicilian pizza derived by my e-friends Gabriele of Pizzarium in Rome and Vincenzo of his father-in-law bakery in Caltanisetta, Sicily.

It involves a very time and effort consuming technique, but the results will be the best you will have in US.

1000g Fine Semolina Flour
750g Water
7g IDY
25g Sea Salt
50g EVO

In the morning when you wake up, mix the following as to make a poolish:
750g Semolina flour
750g Water (cold)
2g IDY
Then put everything in the fridge for 10-11 hours.


After that time, take it out of the fridge and add the remaining 250g Semolina and 5g IDY. mix well and when all the flour has been absorbed, add the salt and oil.

The dough at this point will be very sticky, but do not panic. Wait 15 minutes (covering the mixing bowl) and then "break" the dough and mix again. You will notice that the dough will seams like is drying a bit.

It may be necessary to repeat this process a couple of times until the dough will become less sticky.

Let it rest about an hour, then divide in portions of approximately 500-600g, and let it rest again 40 minutes to an hour in a warm place.

Once it has risen, flatten the dough, grease the baking tray, put the flat dough on it, put the topping and bake immediately.

Let me know the results...

Offline Artale

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2005, 09:21:47 AM »
Thank you for this classic recipe i will
try it and let you know how
the family likes it!

Offline DKM

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Re: Sicilian Dough = semolina
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2005, 12:24:10 PM »
True Sicilian pizza is made with fine semolina flour.

Not according to my Sicilian co-worker.

Oh, well.

DKM
I'm on too many of these boards

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Sicilian Dough = semolina
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2005, 12:46:27 PM »
Not according to my Sicilian co-worker.

Oh, well.

DKM

DKM

I can only tell you to go there and see by yourself. Sicilian focaccia ˙ sfinciuni palemmitanu
is made like that, traditionally.

I also had a personal experience on one of my consultancy service, iná Caltanisetta, as I had to adapt my methodology to the use of fine semolina flour (semola rimacinata di grano duro).

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 26, 2005, 02:11:51 PM by pizzanapoletana »


Offline scott r

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2005, 01:19:37 PM »
thanks pizzanapoletana I am very excited to try an authentic recipe like this.  We are so lucky to have you here.  Is there a special brand of flour that you would consider to be the best choice?

Offline friz78

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2005, 06:10:26 PM »
Has anyone tried this recipe yet?  I'd love to hear the results...
Friz

Offline scott r

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2005, 04:54:51 AM »
I wish I could find the time, Ill bet it is amazing.  It appears as if Marco does not mess around.

Fritz, I'll second that motion.

Offline JimBob

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2005, 06:02:38 PM »
Has anyone tried this recipe yet?   ???
JimBob

Offline JimBob

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Re: Sicilian Dough = semolina
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2005, 11:01:40 PM »
I'm going to give this one a whirl within the next 2 weeks. 

Pizzanapoletana,  what size pan are the 500-600g dough balls weighed out for???

Thanks.....



True Sicilian pizza is made with fine semolina flour.

I can give you a cross-mix of roman pizza and Sicilian pizza derived by my e-friends Gabriele of Pizzarium in Rome and Vincenzo of his father-in-law bakery in Caltanisetta, Sicily.

It involves a very time and effort consuming technique, but the results will be the best you will have in US.

1000g Fine Semolina Flour
750g Water
7g IDY
25g Sea Salt
50g EVO

In the morning when you wake up, mix the following as to make a poolish:
750g Semolina flour
750g Water (cold)
2g IDY
Then put everything in the fridge for 10-11 hours.


After that time, take it out of the fridge and add the remaining 250g Semolina and 5g IDY. mix well and when all the flour has been absorbed, add the salt and oil.

The dough at this point will be very sticky, but do not panic. Wait 15 minutes (covering the mixing bowl) and then "break" the dough and mix again. You will notice that the dough will seams like is drying a bit.

It may be necessary to repeat this process a couple of times until the dough will become less sticky.

Let it rest about an hour, then divide in portions of approximately 500-600g, and let it rest again 40 minutes to an hour in a warm place.

Once it has risen, flatten the dough, grease the baking tray, put the flat dough on it, put the topping and bake immediately.

Let me know the results...

JimBob

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2005, 04:49:40 AM »
about 50 x 35 cm. Do not use a rolling pin. Flatten by hand and then adjust it in the pan. The thickness should be about 1.5-2 cm (it wil double thanks to the oven spring).

Ciao

Offline JimBob

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2005, 08:39:45 AM »
Thank you sir.  :)
JimBob

Offline AKSteve

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2005, 08:24:57 AM »
For a change, I tried a sicilian crust yesterday. I used the following recipe: http://recipes.robbiehaf.com/T/273.htm I did the final kneading in my mixer, 5 minutes on the lowest setting, 5 minute rest, and 5 minutes on medium-low. It was nice because this was a dough that was ready to go in the oven in just a few hours, whereas my Ny style doughs always sit in the fridge at least overnight. After the rise, I spread it out in a lightly oiled pan and let it sit for about a half an hour to rise a little in the pan and then I sauced it up. After it had sauce on it, I lifted it up one corner at a time and squirted olive oil underneath with a Turkey baster. Then I cooked it with just the sauce on it for 12 minutes. I took it out and put some cheese and toppings on and then cooked it for another 12-15 minutes until done. It was actually really good and really easy to make.


Steve
« Last Edit: November 15, 2005, 08:27:18 AM by AKSteve »

Offline PizzaBrewer

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2005, 11:32:36 AM »
Marco:  At what temperature and for how long do you bake this style of pizza?

Thanks!

---Guy
Man does not live by bread alone.  There's also tomato, cheese and pepperoni.

Offline abc

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Re: Sicilian Dough ????
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2005, 04:17:36 PM »
Artale,

From what I have seen since being a member of this forum, not much has been done with Sicilian style pizzas. One of our members recently posted a recipe for Sicilian pizza that he found somewhere on the Internet (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1021.msg9105.html#msg9105), but if you are interested in one that Tom Lehmann of the American Institute of Baking recommends for professional pizza operators, I have posted below the list of ingredients and baker's percents. Unfortunately, the recipe doesn't give actual weights to be able to calculate the amount of dough you will need to make a particular size Sicilian pizza. But all is not lost. Some fairly standard pizza sizes and related dough ball weights are generally well known and can be used. They are as follows: 9'' (10 oz.), 10" (11 oz.), 12" (15-16 oz.), 14" (22 oz.), 15" (25 oz.), and 10" x 14" (22 oz.). If you decide you like Tom Lehmann's recipe and can decide on a size you'd like to make, let me know and I think I may be able to come up with a list of ingredients and amounts for you to try out. Generally, you should try to use a dark, anodized, well-seasoned pan to make a Sicilian pizza. Here is the information on Tom Lehmann's recipe (I can decipher the instructions if you need help):

Flour: 100% (11.5% protein, typical bread flour)
Salt: 2.5%
Olive oil: 5.0%
Yeast (as compressed) 2.0%
Water: 58.0% (+/-)

Targeted finished dough temperature: 75 to 80F. Scale, ball, box, oil the dough balls, cross stack in the cooler for 2 hours, down stack and nest dough boxes, use after 18 hours. Remove from cooler and allow to warm at room temperature for 60 to 90 minutes, press dough into oiled pans, allow to rise for about 40 minutes, or to give desired crust thickness. Bake at 525F. This also makes a pretty decent focaccia too.

As an alternative to the Lehmann recipe, you might also want to take a look at another Sicilian dough recipe, by Big Dave Ostrander, a colleague of Tom Lehmann's. Big Dave's recipe differs from Lehmann's recipe in a few ingredient particulars but the main difference is in the preparation techniques. The Big Dave Sicilian dough recipe is at http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/read/1635. Don't worry about the PZ-44. That's a dough conditioner that you shouldn't need. If that recipe interests you, I can help you work out the particulars for your case if you don't have experience with using baker's percents.

A third possibility is this one: http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/05_Dough-making/10_dough_recipe.htm. You might want to consider the test pizza in the right-most column, although you will need to either weigh some of the ingredients or convert from weights to volume.

Peter



Pete, can you scale a recipe fitting a 12" by 18" rectangular, 1inch deep pan?

I just bought one, it has those rolled edges with the wire framed edge, heavy duty, heavy weighted, black in color.

I'm excited... but i'm not sure what surface the pan is... I saw a stack of pizza pans with the same finish... that is, I'm not sure if I should season it... right now i'm running the clean cycle on my oven, and wonder if I should coat this pan with some peanut oil and toss it in.  The pan came in a clear plastic bag but there are no markings, no branding anywhere..  looks like real restaurant stock.  they have square pans, 15 inch by 15 inch ones as well.  I decided on this rectangular one.

there was a older, rusted stack of pans below the stack from which I got this one, and there were sheets of xeroxed paper describing the pan and how it needs to remain dry and seasoned. 

the helper guy pointed to a stack of aluminum ones he said the one I was eyeing is non-stick.  i'm not sure he knows, he's not a cooking enthusiast.  i think it's an anodized finish.  I took a pic of it.

if it's a nonstick 'teflon' coating i don't want to put it as part of the oven cycle.  but i know from nonstick teflon pans, this baby doesn't feel like a nonstick coating.


 

pizzapan