Pete-zza's Bread Machine Suggestions work Nicely!!

[Artale]

For those who still have their Bread machines dont toss them
away!

After receiving a response from a previous post from Pete-zza (pete)
I tried his suggestions in regards to tweaking a bread machine for
a Lehmann style receipe using a square pan on a pizza stone.


What i did:

used  24 oz flour   all trump
         14.5 oz water
          2 t  ady
          2 t salt
          2 sugar
          1 T virgin Olive oil

Procedure: had all my ingredients ready on the table.
                  waited for the bread machine to go through its 15 min
                  warm cycle. At about 2 minutes before the knead cycle
                  was to begin I then put in 1/2 the amount of luke  warm water
                   and then put in all the flour , yest salt , sugar and oil.
                  The bread machine then went into its knead cycle and at that point
                   i put in the remaining water.  as soon as the first knead cycle
                   was finished which was about 10 min i took out the dough
                   (Note: Keep the cover of the bread machine in a up position so that
                   the heat rises out of the machine during kneading) 
                 
                   I put the finished dough  it into a  plastic bag and put it straight into
                   the fridge for about 24 hrs. At that point the following day i took the  dough out of the fridge to let thaw at room temp.  ( 3 hrs).

                  Unlike a neapolitian pizza i put the dough in a well oiled square
                  pan. I would say the height was more like grandma style pizza
                  under that of a normal sicilian pie.

                   The results after putting the pan in a pre heated 500 oven
                  at the bottom of the rack was very positive.  The dough rose
                  very quickly and in about  8 to 10 min the bottom was
                   almost brown. I then put the pan on the upper 3 rack below the
                   broiler and lightly browned the top. after that I took the pie using
                    a peel out of the pan and for 1  min put the pie on the bottom
                   stone at bake and took out the pie ready for cutting and eating.

                   The dough was very light and airy in the middle yet had a nice
                   brown crispy bottom. It was some what a cross between
                   pan pizza and grandma style would be the only way to explain it.

                 i am by no means and expert in this field i just wanted to share
                 my findings with those that have a bread machine.
 
                  I would like to personally thank Pete-zza  pete for his valuable
                  sugestions they made all the difference.  Prior to working with
                  my bread machine the dough never came out right and the valauble
                  info on this forum put me in the right direction quickly.

                 My 4 kids at home usually leave the crust when i have made pizza
                  in the past.  Not this time all crust was gone!!!!   that was the
                   indicator right there   

                  Thank you pete and thanks to all

                 NYorker Artale

[Pete-zza]

Artale,

I'm glad to see that everything worked out for you.

I was wondering how you got everything into your machine. From your recipe I calculate a total dough ball weight of almost 40 oz., or about 2 1/2 pounds. In some respects the large volume may have been good, because the machine would be less likely to put out as much frictional heat when it is kneading that much dough. I also like your idea of keeping the lid open so that the heat of kneading can escape. I would never had thought to do that, but it helps keep the dough temperature down.

Since you used a pan instead of baking on a stone, how did the finished pizza compare with a typical NY style pizza? I assume your pan was a big one to be able to handle a roughly 2 1/2 pound pizza with toppings, unless, of course, it was more along the Sicilian style.

Peter

[Artale]

Artale,

I'm glad to see that everything worked out for you.

I was wondering how you got everything into your machine. From your recipe I calculate a total dough ball weight of almost 40 oz., or about 2 1/2 pounds. In some respects the large volume may have been good, because the machine would be less likely to put out as much frictional heat when it is kneading that much dough. I also like your idea of keeping the lid open so that the heat of kneading can escape. I would never had thought to do that, but it helps keep the dough temperature down.

Since you used a pan instead of baking on a stone, how did the finished pizza compare with a typical NY style pizza? I assume your pan was a big one to be able to handle a roughly 2 1/2 pound pizza with toppings, unless, of course, it was more along the Sicilian style.

Peter

I used a pan on a stone. I have a 2 stone setup in my oven. 
Yes  the pizza is more along then lines of a sicilian pie but the height or thickness is slightly
thinner much like what in NY we call grandma's pizza.  The pan size is a normal rectangular  sicilian pan.  Usually a sicilian is done in 2 steps cooking the dough with sauce and olive oil and then put the toppings on in step 2. What i did was cook it all in one step due to the fact that 24 oz of flour makes a thinner pizza in my pan.

I would estimate that if i were to make a normal size sicilian i would need approx
28 to 30 oz of flour.

The one good thing about the bread machine is that it is very consistant every time you use it.
The one bad thing is the water temp is gonna take some time getting use to.  I am not sure at this
point what water temp i used.  My tap water is very hot  100 deg F.   I tried using water about 80deg F
thinking that it would cool slighlty and that the heat of the Bread machine would be about 80 to 85 deg F.

I will experiment and hope fully i will become a pro at making sicilian pie and share my recipe with this
fabulous forum!

[pizzabill]

Artale,

Any photos? I'm dying to know what your crust rim looked like. I use a bread maker almost exclusively and I fear it has been effecting the crust causing it to have a tight cell structure and small voids. It's driving me nuts   

-PizzaBill

[Artale]

Artale,

Any photos? I'm dying to know what your crust rim looked like. I use a bread maker almost exclusively and I fear it has been effecting the crust causing it to have a tight cell structure and small voids. It's driving me nuts   

-PizzaBill

pizza bill,

sorry i dont have a digital camera yet all though i want to get one.

The main thing i believe using a bread machine is 1) the heat of the bread machine
can effect the dough in a negative way. You must compensate for the higher heat
that will occur due to the heating element and friction in the bread machine.

Suggestion:  leave the top up and open to let the heat escape.
and during its 15 minute warm up cycle dont put in the ingredients in until
1 to 2 minutes before 1st kneading starts.

2) Make sure you pull out the dough after its 1st knead cycle or no more
    than 8 to 10 minutes of kneading.  Most bread machines will go through
    3 kneading cycles and that will over- knead your pizza dough. You must stop the
    machine after the first kneading. ( dont exceed 10 minutes )

3) dont use very hot water to start. stay around say 70 to 80 degrees and
    the water temp issue is something you will have to experiment with.

4)  use enough water.  Its very clear that what we are in essence making is
     and exposive device that once put into a 500 deg oven will explode or rise
     quickly under heat. Water molecules must be in abundance along with a strong
     yeast energy in order to get that fast rise.  Most receipes seem to call for
    58 to 67 % water.

   If you follow these suggestions i am pretty sure you will get a fluffer pizza.