Drive-In Theatre Pizza

[GotRocks]

hey Bob, Congrats on saving a drive-in!! I sure miss those places.

Just an FYI for that 20 qt mixer you're using, try to keep it in 1st gear if you have a load of dough in it. The clutches for the 2nd and third speeds tend to give out prematurely if you are doing a stiff dough. I have disabled a few of those 20 qt's in my time. And it is not cheap to have the clutches replaced.
1st gear takes longer, but it is way easier on the transmission when working with a pizza dough.

If you start to notice your dough-hook hesitating at all when it hits the side of the bowl, use that as a warning sign to give your hobart service center a jingle and fill him/her in on what you are seeing.
Those 20qt's also had a seal at the planetary shaft that would weep a little grease once in a while too, so just keep your eyes open on what it is doing since you have no idea how rough it was treated before you got it.

If I am ever in your area, I want to stop in and see a movie!

[crazybob]

On our way from South Jersey to Williamsport, Wenesday, We stopped by the Jetro/Restaurant Depot, behind the Philadelphia Phillies/Eagles stadiums. Wow! This store makes Sam's Club look like a Sunoco Mini-Mart! I picked up a 50lb bag of Pilsbury High Gluten flour (& a lot of other stuff).

I made several 15lb batches of dough last night. I only use 1st gear on the 20qt. Hobart. I raise & lower the bowl when it bogs down a little.

 I used the Lehmann NY style dough formulation, that Norma posted, only I added 3 TBS. sugar to each batch. The dough was easier to ball up than the AP flour.  I'll let you know how it turns out tonight. I will probably be making more dough, late tonight. The weather looks good, & we have Shrek & Iron Man here. Well now I've got to got splice Shrek together. It came on six reels.

[Pete-zza]

crazybob,

Out of curiosity, how did the all-purpose flour version of the Lehmann dough recipe work out? I usually recommend using bread flour or high-gluten flour but from time to time I get inquiries about an all-purpose flour version.

Peter

[norma427]

On our way from South Jersey to Williamsport, Wenesday, We stopped by the Jetro/Restaurant Depot, behind the Philadelphia Phillies/Eagles stadiums. Wow! This store makes Sam's Club look like a Sunoco Mini-Mart! I picked up a 50lb bag of Pilsbury High Gluten flour (& a lot of other stuff).

I made several 15lb batches of dough last night. I only use 1st gear on the 20qt. Hobart. I raise & lower the bowl when it bogs down a little.

 I used the Lehmann NY style dough formulation, that Norma posted, only I added 3 TBS. sugar to each batch. The dough was easier to ball up than the AP flour.  I'll let you know how it turns out tonight. I will probably be making more dough, late tonight. The weather looks good, & we have Shrek & Iron Man here. Well now I've got to got splice Shrek together. It came on six reels.

crazybob,

I think you are going to like the way Pillsbury Hi-Gluten handles when making your pizzas.  I used that kind of flour to make my pizzas when I started.  Did you also use the 58% hydration when making your dough?  Great to hear you are making progress. 

Best of luck with your pizzas over the weekend,

Norma

crazybob,

Out of curiosity, how did the all-purpose flour version of the Lehmann dough recipe work out?

Peter

I also would be interested in hearing how your dough worked out with the AP flour.

Norma

[crazybob]

The AP flour dough did work nice for the first couple of hours, but by intermission, it started to jump the shark a little. Man, I have a lot to learn & I'm making all of the rookie mistakes, but it does get better with every batch of dought I make. Here are pics. of the AP flour, & the results. I want a foldable slice that dosen't droop.

[norma427]

The AP flour dough did work nice for the first couple of hours, but by intermission, it started to jump the shark a little. Man, I have a lot to learn & I'm making all of the rookie mistakes, but it does get better with every batch of dought I make. Here are pics. of the AP flour, & the results. I want a foldable slice that dosen't droop.

crazybob,

Thanks for sharing how the AP flour worked out with pictures.    You will learn if you keep experimenting.

How did your pizzas turn out last night using the Pillsbury High-Gluten.  I would be interested is hearing of your results using the different flour.

Norma

[crazybob]

Hi, Norma & the gang! Here's a pizza I made last night with the HG/balancer flour. I made the dough balls 18.5 oz.,by mistake, instead of 16.5. I made several batches late last night, of 16.5. It should be thinner tonight. I get 13 doughballs per batch... (I should save up & get a 40qt. mixer!..lol)

My food service delivery driver told me about a product call "dough extender" that comes in 50lb. bags. He owns a pizza/sub shop, but he said that he uses frozen dough balls. I have more time on my hands, so I'm trying to keep it real (or reel).

[norma427]

Hi, Norma & the gang! Here's a pizza I made last night with the HG/balancer flour. I made the dough balls 18.5 oz.,by mistake, instead of 16.5. I made several batches late last night, of 16.5. It should be thinner tonight. I get 13 doughballs per batch... (I should save up & get a 40qt. mixer!..lol)

My food service delivery driver told me about a product call "dough extender" that comes in 50lb. bags. He owns a pizza/sub shop, but he said that he uses frozen dough balls. I have more time on my hands, so I'm trying to keep it real (or reel).

crazybob,

Your pizzas from last night look delicious!    In my opinion I don't think you will need the dough extender.  Your pizzas look great without it.  I never tried any dough extenders, but the Pillsubury Balancer should be fine without it.  My local pizza man uses the same flour and doesn't use any dough extenders. 

LOL about getting the bigger mixer.  That could run you some serious money, but if you keep up like you are doing that could be a possibility. 

Thanks for keeping us filled in how your are doing with your pizzas.

Anyway I can help, just let me know,

Norma

[Mad_Ernie]

Thanks for posting your results with pics, Crazybob.  It looks like you are definitely on your way.  I've enjoyed following your odyssey of the wonderful world of pizza-making. 

How have your latest creations been received by your patrons?  How do you think the results are going?  Are they what you are looking to achieve, or close?

Keep us up to date on your progress.

P.S.  I agree with Norma.  I would leave out the dough extender, at least for now, and just keep doing what you're doing.

-ME

[crazybob]

The customers love the pizza, but I still don't have it right. Overnight, the dough balls grew togther to form a tray of puffy dough. I cut it apart, & re-weighed it to 16.5 oz. I had used yeast from a new package of IDY. I put the new dough balls in 1 gal. ziplock bags, instead of the tray. The HG flour seems to yield more dough that the AP. The HG makes a thicker pizza than the AP. I wanted a thinner pizza, but the customers seem to like the thicker rimmed crust like in the picture above. I took the pic just before I added the peporoni. They wanted chicken, so I deep fried a spicy chicken patty & cut it up. They also wanted ham, green pepper, & sausage. I charge .99per topping on the 14"(9.99), & .49 per topping on the 9" (4.99)

I think that I need to reduce the size of the dough ball to make a 14" pizza? Thanks, Bob. You can follow more on  My facebook fan page. Its: Crazy Bob's Harvest Moon Drive-In Theatre. We just got our 1000th fan. I stopped adertising in the Williamsport Sun Gazatte!

[norma427]

crazybob,

It’s great to hear your customers love your pizza.  You will get it right.  It has a lot to do with dough management.  Do you take the temperature of your final dough?  You might need to use cooler water in your dough mix, to achieve a final dough temperature of between 80-85 degrees F.  Right now with the current formula I am using, I need to get a lower final dough temperature than that.  I shoot for around 73 degrees F, but that doesn’t apply to the regular Lehmann dough. What temperature do you keep the place where the dough is stored?  Also dough management has to do with balling up your dough right after weighing it and then directly into the deli case.  I think, if I remember right that you don’t use lids on your dough trays.  The dough needs to cool down fast, so it doesn’t overferment.   

I am not sure if you want a thinner pizza what dough weight you might go to.  I think, but am not sure that the standard NY style is around 0.10.  If you go to the Lehmann Calculator at: http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html, you can put in a thickness factor and go from there.  I find I can stretch my pizza thinner just by opening the dough more. 

See if someone else can help you, also.  I am glad to hear your are doing so well with your pizzas. 

Since I am not an expert on all this and still learning myself, I hope this has helped you some.

I’ll look at your Facebook,

Norma

[Pete-zza]

crazybob,

The high-gluten flour should yield a dough with a more developed gluten structure that should hold more gases of fermentation and hold them longer. That will mean that you are likely to see more dough expansion than you will get using a weaker flour like the all-purpose flour you have been using.

If you want to see the general procedures that Tom Lehmann recommends for making pizza dough, see Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7953.msg68396/topicseen.html#msg68396. In my experience, when people have problems with their pizza dough in a commercial setting it is often because they have not followed all of the steps properly. Of course, individual cases can vary depending on the equipment used, the type of storage conditions, and other factors unique to a given situation.

Peter

[crazybob]

Hi, Norma. I weigh, & make balls right after the dough is made. The water is around 100 degrees. I will check the dough temp. I put six balls in the white, plastic trays from Resaurant Depot. I do cover  the top tray & put them in the cooler (40 degrees) for 16-18 hrs.

The Lehmann Calculator is neat (if I can figue it out better)(I have math anxiety!)
Maybe I should leave out the sugar? I might go back to the AP flour, & leave the sugar in?

Hi Peter. Thank you so much for the NY Pizza doh link! I was putting in the flour first, then the water, & then everything else! My problem will be cross stacking the trays. I only have cooler room to down-stack 4 trays.

..Stay tuned for my next adventure! This is fun!

[Pete-zza]

crazybob,

The cross stacking is important because it allows the dough balls to cool down faster. Otherwise, the heat can get trapped in the dough boxes and the dough balls can ferment too fast. Often when that happens you can end up with all of the dough balls running into each other in the dough box and making a real mess. There is really not much that you can do to get around that problem, like using colder water or less yeast. Those measures don't usually work.

Peter

[crazybob]

Yes it was the bottom two trays where the dough balls ran together. Probably heat was trapped in there!. Maybe instead of the trays, how about the Glad/bowls or plastic freezer bags that some use? (I may have to get a walk in cooler next.) I only sell about 2-3 dozen pizzas a night (Fri, Sat.) Thanks, Bob.

[Pete-zza]

Bob,

As you can see from this PMQ Think Tank thread, http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7668&start=0, there are some pizza operators who use sheet trays instead of dough boxes. However, you will need some kind of racking system to hold the sheet trays, which may or may not work in your cooler. I think it should be possible to use individual storage containers such as our members use but I have read very little about that approach being used by professionals. However, Jeff Varasano, who used Glad storage containers when he was making pizzas at home, continued to use them when he opened his pizzeria, as you note from the YouYube video at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwCAp2qjIpM&amp;NR=1" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwCAp2qjIpM&amp;NR=1</a>

.

Norma may also be able to give you some insights about using individual storage bags to hold the dough balls and how that approach might be used in your particular setting.

Peter

[crazybob]

Thanks, Peter. I saw the youtube, where Jeff Varasano(the rubik's cube guy), uses the glad containers. I also saw one where Norma uses the plastic bags. Between youtube, & pizzamaking.com, I was inspired to kick it a a notch, by serving the very best drive-in pizza in the country! I do read the PMQ too. It's was intimindating at first, because we are just a rookie, Mom & Pop operation, & I felt more comfertable here. I will probably registar on PMQ soon. I guess we all started at one time. Thanks, again for all of your help. If any of you are in the area, please give us a visit at the drive-in. You will get the royal treatment!

[norma427]

crazybob,

This is how I store my dough balls.  They are in plastic bags on a lid.  I don’t have storage room to use dough trays and this is what Tom Lehmann recommended for me to use.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg97317.html#msg97317

I also had problems with my dough running together, when I first starting making pizza.  When you have multiple dough balls to deal with, it is much harder than trying to handle a few.  Here is what my dough balls looked like before I got everything under control, so don’t feel bad, you also will get this all down.  I also used sugar in my dough then.  Go down to the third picture.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8341.msg75733.html#msg75733

If you look though that thread, you will see all the problems I had when I started making dough.  I since have learned to manage the dough better.  You also will learn. 

When the weather gets warmer, getting a final dough temperature between 75-85 degrees F is really important.  I sometimes need to use water I have stored in the deli case.

If you need help with the Lehmann calculator either I will help or someone else will.  I also found all this intimating when I first started.  I am math challenged, too.

In my opinion you shouldn't give up on the high-gluten flour yet.  It can work very good.

Anything thing else I or anyone else can help with, just ask. 

Norma

[crazybob]

Hi, Norma. I looked through the thread link & leaned alot! Thanks. I see that you use a 16 oz. ball to make a 16" pizza. I would like to stay with 14" because I sell it for 9.99. Should I use a 14 oz dough ball? I was at 16.5.

Hi Peter. I discovered that I can cross-stack trays in my Pepsi cooler, in the back kitchen. I took this pic of 4 empty trays to see if they would fit. Looks like I'm back in business! Now I got to get Pepsi to bring me another cooler!

[norma427]

crazybob,

If you look at the Lehmann dough calculator at: http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html  you can see how  a 14" pizza can be figured out.  I still am not sure if you want to stick with a hydration of 58%.  I will figured the dough formula out for 58%, but if you want a higher hydration, either just ask or try to see if you can work the calculator.  My pizza are a little thinner than 0.10, but I will just use that for now.  I still am not sure how much sugar you want to use in your dough. I don’t use any sugar in my dough. If you put in a thickness factor of 0.10 and keep the rest of the ingredients the same, the formula will be.

Flour (100%):    4125.68 g  |  145.53 oz | 9.1 lbs
Water (58%):    2392.89 g  |  84.41 oz | 5.28 lbs
IDY (0.30%):    12.38 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.11 tsp | 1.37 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):    72.2 g | 2.55 oz | 0.16 lbs | 5.01 tbsp | 0.31 cups
Oil (1%):    41.26 g | 1.46 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.17 tsp | 3.06 tbsp
Total (161.05%):   6644.41 g | 234.37 oz | 14.65 lbs | TF = 0.1015
Single Ball:   442.96 g | 15.62 oz | 0.98 lbs

If you look at the Lehmann roadmap you can see what is says about the Lehmann dough.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1453.msg13193.html#msg13193.

If you want to add sugar, like you have been doing, I think it can be added at 1-2% by the weight of the flour.

This is the formula if sugar is added at 1.5% by weight of flour.

Flour (100%):    4087.61 g  |  144.18 oz | 9.01 lbs
Water (58%):    2370.81 g  |  83.63 oz | 5.23 lbs
IDY (0.30%):    12.26 g | 0.43 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.07 tsp | 1.36 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):    71.53 g | 2.52 oz | 0.16 lbs | 4.97 tbsp | 0.31 cups
Oil (1%):    40.88 g | 1.44 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.08 tsp | 3.03 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    61.31 g | 2.16 oz | 0.14 lbs | 5.13 tbsp | 0.32 cups
Total (162.55%):   6644.41 g | 234.37 oz | 14.65 lbs | TF = 0.1015
Single Ball:   442.96 g | 15.62 oz | 0.98 lbs

If you note there is a bowl residue added of 1.5

I hope I figured this out right for you.  If not, maybe someone will give you some more advise. 

Norma