Author Topic: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill  (Read 22671 times)

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Offline gtsum2

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2010, 02:40:22 PM »
Looks great tman!  I have been cooking numerous pies on the primo and they have been turning out very good, but I think I am done with cooking them out there.....my bands are stretching so bad when heated up for pizza temps that I almost lost my lid the other day..no matter how much I tighten them, the extreme heat is stretching them out = not safe at all.  Eggs and Primo's are fantastic cookers, and they do produce great food, but they have their shortcomings on pizzas I have found.  I think I need to look at a wood burning pizza oven to truly get to where I want to be.  Nice job on the mods though..pies look great!


Offline gtsum2

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2010, 02:41:12 PM »
are you still using that basic NY style dough recipe??  I have been using that for awhile now...(and tweaking a bit here and there to experiment)

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2010, 05:34:00 PM »
Thx Gtsum, glad to see your still around.   Although I haven't been baking pizza on the primo much I have been making them in the MBE (mini black egg).  You can read about it here if you are interested
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11126.0.html
IMO, it works just as well for making NY style pies as the Primo.  I know many Primo owners have kettle charcoal grills laying around that could be easily converted.

I agree with you that though one can bake a decent pie in the Primo, but it is not optimized for pizza baking compared to a dedicated pizza oven.  Or that it could not bake a pizza like a true WFO.  I'm starting to realize the necessity for one in order to have a true WFO experience, especially for baking Neapolitan style pies. 

With my setup above, the top bands do not get heated or stretched.  As a matter of fact, I do not close the top lid down at all during the bake. 

I'm glad you told me you are experimenting and tweaking.  That is exactly my intention when I was putting that recipe together.  It is to be a starting place and then you can modify it to your liking.  I don't really use that recipe much.  The one I'm currently using isn't that different from that one.  I don't use sugar in the mix, and use slightly less oil, and yeast.   I also have change up my hand kneading technique quite a bit, a more simple technique that varies depending on the protein level in the flour and the strength of the flour and ferment times. 

I thought it would be fun for me to revisit that recipe soon and post up some decent pictures.  That recipe was put together at a time where my pizza knowledge was much less than now, although I still consider myself a novice.

I'm glad you're still hooked on pizza.  I'm surprise that after 9 months and nearly 300 pies, that I would be sick of making & eating pizza.  I'm not but I have gained a few pounds.  As a matter of fact, I'm always scheming for an opportunity to make some dough.

Best of luck,
Chau

Offline gtsum2

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2010, 06:35:21 PM »
I got a wild hair and decided to cook on the Primo tonight..I made up some same day dough (67% HR, .5% IDY, 2% OO, 2% salt) and proofed him for about 5 hours on the counter.  I used firebricks in the primo this time..it made a big difference, along with the Cyberq...by forcing the air through the cooker, I was able to achieve LBE like results, but with the superior taste of the Primo (wood fired) - Cooked at 610 stone temp and 750-800 dome temp - these were by best efforts on the Primo for sure. 

I even managed a bubble on the crust??  That is a first for me..does that mean anything??  (as you can tell, I am such a noob!)

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2010, 12:00:50 AM »
  That is a first for me..does that mean anything?? 

Yes, it means that because of those little black spots you are required to travel to each of the members (that post in  newbie topics) and replicate your results.  I can't believe this is a same day dough.  Can you go into more detail about your prep methods and the flour used? :)
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline gtsum2

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2010, 12:24:22 AM »
LOL..on the black spots I am good with the leoparding (I have managed a few of those before ;D).  I was referring to the air pocket on the bottom crust in the last pic where I took a bite..I have not seen that before...it looked like a little blister on the bottom that "popped into the crust" for lack of a better description??? 

I used the following:

Sams Club (Bakers Choice - Con Agra) Bread Flour - 604g - 100%
Water - 404g - 67%
IDY - 3g - .5%
Salt - 12g - 2%
EVO - 12g - 2%

Thickness factor .09, made 3 doughballs - cooked 2 of them today, other is in the fridge.  Supposed to be 13 inches around..I would guess they were 12-13 (I forgot to measure).  I used Kosher salt instead of table salt.  2% bowl residual comp

I put the water in the KA mixing bowl and added the IDY, salt, and EVO and mixed for about 1 minute on speed 2 with wisk attachment.  I lowered to speed 1 (still with wisk attachment) and slowly began adding the flour...I added a little at a time until I had added about 60-70% of the flour - total mix time was about 2 minutes.  Let rest for 20 minutes.  Mixed on speed 1 with the wisk again while adding about a spoonful of the remaining flour at a time - after 2-3 minutes I had to switch to the dough hook...continued to add the rest of the flour - total mix time here was about 9 minutes.  Let sit for 15 minutes and then did a few folds and stretches (like JT talks about) - I was not real light with it....I folded and stretched 2-3 times and let sit for about 5 minutes.  I then divided into equal balls and did 3-4 more fold and stretches on each ball and then balled them up and put into lightly oiled glad containers and sealed them up...two of them on the counter top for about 5 hours and the other on the fridge for tomorrow.  The dough was easy to work with and stretched nicely, but not too easily (if that makes sense?).  Loaded with 6-n-1 crushed maters, precooked ital sausage and pepp.  I was really happy with this crust...the main differences between this batch and earlier batches are using Kosher salt instead of table salt, a slightly thicker thickness factor, and using the wisk attachment.  I think it mixed the flour and water much better then using the dough hook in the beginning.  I also did the 15 minute rest after final mixing before the stretch and folds (I had done 5 minute rest before).  The crust was light, airy, had a nice crunch to it, moist inside...right amount of chew, and the crust remained crisp even after cooling down (it was not a cracker crust by any means, but just right for what I think I am looking for).  Props to JT as he has helped me out quite a bit and I think he and I are liking the same kind of pies, so it is easy (for me) to see some of his techniques and recipes and results and kind of "borrow" them for myself to experiment with! 

Next cook with the Primo I am going to lower the stone as I think I can get a bit quicker heat up with the FB closer to the fire, but for me, the FB made a big difference (compared to the Primo D plates and the Primo pizza stone I was using in the past)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 12:33:23 AM by gtsum2 »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2010, 12:38:18 AM »
well hell, I'm glad at least one person is benefitting from my efforts.  :-D  Shaun I was going to say that the one or few big bubbles means potentially 2 things to me. 

1) the dough is sufficiently feremented.  I see this happen whether it is a same day dough or cold ferment.
2) to get more of these bubbles if you like them, I use stretch and folds to trap the air bubbles.  The reason you don't see more is perhaps you are doing too short of a bulk rise.  I will typically take the total ferment time and bulk rise for about half of that or at least 4 hours or so.  This gives the dough sufficient time to rise and develop more gluten.  Once you divid the dough at this point, stretch and folding traps air b/c the gluten is developed and will hold the air rather than absorb it back into the dough - if that makes sense.

If you stretch and fold with too short of a bulk rise or too wet of a dough, the dough will just absorb the air rather than trap it.   But here's the thing, don't go to wild with too many folds.  I typically only do 4 - 6 folds.    To do 4 folds, fold left to right, then right to left.  then fold the ends in top to bottom, and bottom to top.  Now fold your new squarish ball in half and seal the ends.  The dough still needs to proof now to realign the gluten matrix.  When you go to stretch the skin later, you'll get an even stretch. 

Shaun we live in different physical environments so I'm not surprise our HR's are a bit different.  I'm also now experimenting with lower HR's to see if I get a better crumb.  Even with HG flour, I have somewhat deceived myself into a higher bake temp and short bake time.  I'm really starting to see that somewhere in the realm of a 5-6min bake, and closer to 6 is ideal for HG flours.

BTW, I do really like same day doughs.  One advantage is that it allows one to experiment more often with quicker results.  I never could wait even 2 days for a cold ferment dough experimenting as much as I typically like to.   

Chau

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2010, 12:41:45 AM »
Also Shaun what has been discuss before by Scott and then later by me (just repeating after him) is that different stones do behave different at the same temps.  Low heat conducting stones are more forgiving at higher temps with higher protein flours.   

If this condition is true in your Primo, then it is also true in the home oven, LBE, etc.  I know you know this now, but just wanted to repeat that for the benefit of others reading this. 

Also to remind you for when you start taking your BBE to crazy temps and doing NP pies.  When you are ready and if you don't have 00 flours locally you can always do what I've done and experiment with AP flour.  The protein content seems low enough to tolerate high temps.

Cheers,
Chau

Offline gtsum2

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Re: coal baked pizza in the Primo ceramic grill
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2010, 07:43:14 AM »
I am going to give AP flour a whirl...I know I tried a 65% HR and I did not like it near as much..the bottom crust seemed a lot gummier then the 67 and 68% HR - it seemed to have went soft a little faster as well


 

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