Author Topic: WFO Temperature (Read 2688 times)

dellavecchia · « **on:** May 17, 2010, 05:09:02 PM »

I had 50 people over for my son's 2nd birthday, and I used my new WFO to make 30 pizzas (10in). Since I had only used the oven twice I was extremely nervous about the ability of the little oven to crank out that number pies (and of my ability to manage the oven and make pies). But the Primavera 70 worked very well. And I think I did a pretty good job too!

I fired the oven for 90 minutes. The floor got up to 1000 degrees in a few spots, and I let it cool down to 850. The pies were coming out in 45 seconds - and I am not sure that the cheese was melting properly for a true neapolitan (ie, not melted enough). I cut them into sugar cube size pieces. If I let the pie go 60 seconds it would burn. The dough was slightly crispy on the outside, and light as a feather inside. The middle was slightly floppy. The next day I had some leftover dough and I tried a cook at 750 degrees and 90 seconds. The crust was slightly more crisp and a bit more chewy - and had less leoparding. The pic below is the last pizza of the first day - 45 second cook.

So here is my question: for a real neapolitan should I be going for the fastest cook possible and cut down the cheese size even more? Or is the standard to be a bit more chewy and cook longer (90 seconds?). Or is the cheese supposed to be that way, owing to the "fresh" taste? I have not been to Naples in 5 years, and I just don't remember that level of detail in the dough/cheese. Any advice or suggestions appreciated. I understand that this is all subjective - and I do understand that my oven is much, much smaller than those ovens in Naples.

John

andreguidon · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2010, 08:31:16 PM »

the pie from the photo looks just fine to me... what are you looking for, as results ?

i think you have the same problem as me, its very hard to cook a perfect pie in 45s in a small oven, cause the pie is very close to the fire... so i cook the 70-80s pies...

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2010, 10:19:43 PM »

One of the main considerations for me is that, at these temps, there is a very small window of maybe only few seconds in which the crust can go from undercooked to overcooked. The melting of the cheese is less critical and, when necessary, I raise the pie to the dome for a few seconds to give the toppings a good blast. The chewiness of the dough can have more to do with how the dough was made than the baking temp & time.

thezaman · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2010, 10:42:32 PM »

your pie look really good. you could cut the cheese thinner if you want more of a melt. the picture of you and the pie ,that pie looks perfect. save that pick and check your weight after a year with your oven.

kiwipete · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2010, 06:05:34 AM »

Agreed: excellent looking pies.

I hand tear my mozzarella into pieces before baking and find that works fine in the WFO. Your chunks look a bit big to me, so I'd reduce them a bit in size.

Peter.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2010, 10:06:32 AM »

Thanks to all for the replies.

So it seems that chewiness is not desirable, and the lighter crust is what I am aiming for. The dough prep is 61% hydration, .2 IDY, and 3% salt - 280 gram balls. 30 hour cold rise balled and 4 hour room temp rise. I may cut the salt down or raise the hydration to see if it gives me a larger cook window without letting the dough get chewy. And I have not yet tried my starter recipe in the WFO. I may have different/even better results there. The pies taste amazingly good - I just want to be able to achieve perfection in the dough texture.

And I will tear the mozz next time instead of cutting into chunks - with a blast in the top of the dome at the last second - to get the melted consistency I am after.

thezaman - After pizza night I work out an extra 20 minutes in my routine the next day to burn off all those carbs. And the funny thing is that I am on a diet that eschews white flour due to my high cholesterol. Hopefully my pizza obsession does not end up being a lethal one!

Quote from: Bill/SFNM on May 17, 2010, 10:19:43 PM

One of the main considerations for me is that, at these temps, there is a very small window of maybe only few seconds in which the crust can go from undercooked to overcooked. The melting of the cheese is less critical and, when necessary, I raise the pie to the dome for a few seconds to give the toppings a good blast. The chewiness of the dough can have more to do with how the dough was made than the baking temp & time.

JConk007 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2010, 02:14:57 PM »

Agreed crust looks great Caputo 00 flour? Just reduce size of cheese chunk and as stated watch the waist!!

John

tempemom · « **Reply #7 on:** May 18, 2010, 07:14:04 PM »

I agree, your pizza looks great! I've actually found the way the cheese melts is highly dependent on the maker of the fresh mozzerella. Where are you getting your cheese from? For one of my previous large parties, I bought the fresh mozzerella from Costco (the BelGioioso 2 lb package). Unfortunately, it didn't melt nice at all in my Primavera 60, which was at a similar heat as yours. Since then, I've found a local Italian deli and that makes their own mozzerella daily and it melts so much nicer. I've also found that the fresh mozerella that comes in water in a plastic container also melts fine. I've just have a tougher time melting the fresh mozz from Costco.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2010, 01:44:29 PM »

The cheese I have been using lately is Calabro whole milk mozz in it's whey. It is sold in my local supermarket, and made in Connecticut. I wish I could get my hands on their Fior di Latte, which is a premium product in their line. I have a feeling it would melt smoother no matter what the size.

I have also bought curd from Todaro brothers in NYC and shaped the balls myself. I would say it is the exact same consistency, taste and melt as the store bought Calabro.

Quote from: tempemom on May 18, 2010, 07:14:04 PM

I agree, your pizza looks great! I've actually found the way the cheese melts is highly dependent on the maker of the fresh mozzerella. Where are you getting your cheese from? For one of my previous large parties, I bought the fresh mozzerella from Costco (the BelGioioso 2 lb package). Unfortunately, it didn't melt nice at all in my Primavera 60, which was at a similar heat as yours. Since then, I've found a local Italian deli and that makes their own mozzerella daily and it melts so much nicer. I've also found that the fresh mozerella that comes in water in a plastic container also melts fine. I've just have a tougher time melting the fresh mozz from Costco.

BrickStoneOven · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2010, 11:54:15 AM »

You can buy the Calabro Fior di Latte at Accardi Foods in Medford, thats where I got for my caputo, tomatoes, and cheese. They have everything you need there. Its a cash&carry so you can just walk in and buy whatever your heart desires. I got the Calabro Fior di Latte and their Ricotta.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2010, 03:59:32 PM »

Quote from: BrickStoneOven on July 10, 2010, 11:54:15 AM

You can buy the Calabro Fior di Latte at Accardi Foods in Medford, thats where I got for my caputo, tomatoes, and cheese. They have everything you need there. Its a cash&carry so you can just walk in and buy whatever your heart desires. I got the Calabro Fior di Latte and their Ricotta.

Thanks for the tip! I need more caputo - I can't believe I went through a 50 lb bag in a few months.

John

dellavecchia · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2010, 08:13:49 PM »

I had my best bake yet this evening, and I think I have the temperature needed for perfect pies (at least the way I like them) down. At 62% hydration, I need a 900-925 degree floor to get the beautiful charring and leoparding I am striving for, yet still have a soft, chewy inside. And one thing I really did not take into full consideration until now - you NEED a large flame in the oven that is almost lapping the other side to achieve balanced cooking from above - at least in the P70 which I own.

I had guests over, and they were extremely impressed with the flavor of these pies. Thanks again for the advice in this thread.

John

Tscarborough · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2010, 08:22:31 PM »

I generally shoot for about 700-750 floor with the dome around 1000, but I slice the cheese thin, 1/4" or less. I have not made more than 2 batches of dough at a time (8 pies) though, so I may try for more heat on a party, and of course I figured out that the fire needs to be lapping flames over the top always when cooking pizzas.

Yours look great!

andreguidon · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2010, 06:42:36 AM »

good work john, the pies look GREAT !!!

dellavecchia · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2010, 10:02:41 AM »

Quote from: andreguidon on July 19, 2010, 06:42:36 AM

good work john, the pies look GREAT !!!

Andre - Thanks! Question for you (and anyone else who would like to comment). The pics in my previous post are 62%. Below is the same dough at 59%. Same bake time/floor temp. .2 IDY and 3% salt. Which do you prefer visually? I was looking at some pictures here: http://www.pizzeriasalvo.it/ - and my 59% looks more like theirs. Less pronounced char and smaller marks. Just curious as to what people think is more appealing for a neapolitan (obviously taste is left out here).

John

BrickStoneOven · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2010, 11:31:57 AM »

What I am striving to achieve is what the first pizza looks like whenyou click on "Foto Pizze" on his site, this is strictly on looks thought. I know I am no where near what his pizzas taste like but appearance wise that is what I would like my pizzas to look like. An amber puffy edge not brown with faint leapoarding not black spots.

PizzaPolice · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2010, 11:58:45 AM »

My vote... Stick with the 62%.

What I'm trying to figure out is if you have been to doing this for a good while or you are very good student. It appears that you have grasped all of the things necessary to make great pizza.
Making great pizza is similar to golf. With golf, you need to master only 3 things. Driving, Chipping and Putting. It's that simple. Getting ALL 3 to come together in one game is the hard part. Recipe, Oven and Technique.
In your specific case, it's Recipe, Oven, Technique and wearing a cool hat.
Congratulations!

dellavecchia · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2010, 01:34:02 PM »

Quote from: BrickStoneOven on July 19, 2010, 11:31:57 AM

What I am striving to achieve is what the first pizza looks like whenyou click on "Foto Pizze" on his site, this is strictly on looks thought. I know I am no where near what his pizzas taste like but appearance wise that is what I would like my pizzas to look like. An amber puffy edge not brown with faint leapoarding not black spots.

Agreed - that seems to be the quintessential neapolitan. Although I do love the taste those charred spots give to the pie at 62%.

John

dellavecchia · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2010, 01:41:28 PM »

Quote from: PizzaPolice on July 19, 2010, 11:58:45 AM

My vote... Stick with the 62%.

What I'm trying to figure out is if you have been to doing this for a good while or you are very good student. It appears that you have grasped all of the things necessary to make great pizza.
Making great pizza is similar to golf. With golf, you need to master only 3 things. Driving, Chipping and Putting. It's that simple. Getting ALL 3 to come together in one game is the hard part. Recipe, Oven and Technique.
In your specific case, it's Recipe, Oven, Technique and wearing a cool hat.
Congratulations!

Thanks for the kind words! I have been working on the dough for about 6 months, and I got my oven in May. My family is from Caserta, just outside Naples, so I feel a real connection to cooking this way. But most of the thanks goes to the people on this board for all their help.

Flavor-wise I like the 62% - so I may just stick with the slight aberration from authenticity. The extra charring brings a smokiness to the fresh tomato and cheese.

John

andreguidon · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2010, 04:00:54 PM »

hi john, i like the 62% visual better... maybe try a 60 to 61% to get a mixed result... i use 60%