Author Topic: Lehmann Crazy Bread  (Read 2621 times)

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Offline gijoe985

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Lehmann Crazy Bread
« on: May 20, 2010, 05:35:13 PM »
Hey all,

So, I am a really big fan of Little Cesar's crazy bread (bread sticks with some garlic and parmesan.) I was curious, if I was going to follow a Lehmann recipe (essentially) what dough thickness should I calculate to use on bread sticks? Also, and other suggestions, like upping the oil or something?


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Lehmann Crazy Bread
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 06:58:07 PM »
gijoe985,

The thickness factor does not really apply to bread sticks. The way I would approach it is to make a given amount of dough and prepare it to make bread sticks. Pizza operators use the same dough for bread sticks (and garlic knots) as they use for their pizzas, so there should not be any need to modify the dough formulation for bread stick use. Of course, if making better bread sticks is your main objective, there is no reason why you can't modify your basic dough formulation with that purpose in mind. If you plan to use a Lehmann dough, that should be easy to do using the expanded dough calculating tool in the Dough Weight mode.

You can get a better idea of a typical weight for the dough pieces to be made into bread sticks at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1681.msg15156/topicseen.html#msg15156. As you will see from that post, the starting point is an amount of dough.

If you are a big fan of the LC Crazy Bread, you might look at the LC nutrition facts for that product to see if you can reverse engineer that data from the standpoint of the weights of dough pieces that LC may be using to make the Crazy Bread.

Peter

Offline gijoe985

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Re: Lehmann Crazy Bread
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2010, 04:47:02 PM »
I guess what I was thinknig about, was if I wanted to just make a 16" pie with only some olive oil, garlic, and parm on it, how thick should I make the crust. I figure I'd want the entire crust to be the thickness my rim normall ends up.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Lehmann Crazy Bread
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2010, 05:43:39 PM »
I guess what I was thinking about, was if I wanted to just make a 16" pie with only some olive oil, garlic, and parm on it, how thick should I make the crust. I figure I'd want the entire crust to be the thickness my rim normall ends up.


I have never used the thickness factor that way and honestly wouldn't know how to do it since the dough used to make bread sticks is cut into pieces that are allowed to rise before baking. That is how the individual bread stick dough pieces get their height, at least for those places that let the dough pieces rise before baking. I don't know what thickness factor would to be equivalent to the height of the rim of a standard Lehmann pizza skin.

Since you mentioned the LC Crazy Bread, I went to the LC website and looked at the nutrition data for the LC Crazy Bread at http://www.littlecaesars.com/menu/nutrition.asp and, according to that data, there are eight bread sticks to a Crazy Bread order, with each bread stick weighing 36 grams. That is for a fully baked bread stick with whatever they put on it in the way of seasonings. 36 grams is about 1.27 ounces. There is some loss in the weight of the dough during baking, so to compensate for that loss and for the weight of seasonings you might want to make a dough stick that weighs, say, 1 3/8 ounces. So, for a dozen dough sticks, one might use 16.5 ounces of dough. If you want to use a Lehmann NY style dough, you can use the expanded dough calculator with the Dough Weight option and determine the amounts of ingredients necessary to make 16.5 ounces of dough. When you are ready to use the dough, you can form them into a dozen dough pieces of the same weight (e.g., 1 3/8 ounce) and size, let them rise, and then bake them. I've never done this, but that is the way I would proceed if I were interested in making a Lehmann Crazy Bread clone product.

No doubt you could make a Lehmann dough for a 16" pizza using a basic thickness factor of say, 0.105, and divide the dough into whatever number and size of dough pieces you would like to make, and let them rise before baking. With this approach, the dough ball would weigh 3.14159 x 8 x 8 x 0.105 = 21.11 ounces. If you flatten the dough to form a rectangular sheet of the right size, whatever that would be, you could form the rolled out or pressed out dough into whatever number of individual bread stick pieces you would like to have, let them rise, and bake them.

If you figure out how you would like to proceed, please let us know what kind of results you get. For what it's worth, when I was doing all of my Papa John's clone experiments, I learned that PJs does not use the rectangular dough sheet method. They use a round skin and form it into the required number of dough pieces. That means that the bread sticks are not identical in size and shape. I believe that Pizza Hut uses a rectangular baking pan of some sort. I haven't investigated the PH bread sticks but a rectangular pan should yield bread sticks of the same size and shape. I believe the PJ bread sticks are baked on pizza screens, just like they do with their pizzas.

Peter

Offline gijoe985

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Re: Lehmann Crazy Bread
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2010, 06:24:29 PM »
Yeah, I LC uses a round skin as well. That's why I was just going to increase the thickness factor, I have made them in the past, but end up with thin areas when using a regular weight 16" dough ball. All I used to do was add an extra ball to the calc and then toss it and bake it like a pizza. I sliced it afterward. So it was essentially just making a pizza, but without the toppings. I figured by upping the dough thickness to double, like .2-.25, you end up with a evenly thick pie. I have to assume that the rim of a pizza (a good bread stick thickness IMO) has to be over twice as thick as the rest. So I will try that in the future.

But tonight...

You've kinda turned me on to making something new. I'm going to make some dough, buttery and high moisture, and then braid three ropes of it. Do one batch with cheese/butter/garlic and the other with sugar and cinnamon. I'll try to take pictures.


Offline gijoe985

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Re: Lehmann Crazy Bread
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2010, 06:40:28 PM »
Flour (100%):    688.2 g  |  24.28 oz | 1.52 lbs
Water (60%):    412.92 g  |  14.57 oz | 0.91 lbs
IDY (.75%):    5.16 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.71 tsp | 0.57 tbsp
Salt (1.5%):    10.32 g | 0.36 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.15 tsp | 0.72 tbsp
Canola Oil (2%):    13.76 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.03 tsp | 1.01 tbsp
Honey (1%):    6.88 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 0.98 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (2%):    13.76 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.91 tsp | 0.97 tbsp
Total (167.25%):   1151.01 g | 40.6 oz | 2.54 lbs | TF = N/A


Initial attempt. Might change as I go. I'll post changes and try to take some pics. I went with canola to avoid an over olivey taste for the dessert twists. I'll drizzle olive oil on the top of the garlic ones when I cook them.

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Re: Lehmann Crazy Bread
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2010, 07:02:59 PM »
gijoe985,

I remembered that Tom Lehmann reported that one could add more oil or other fat to the dough to get a somewhat different, and presumably better, bread stick. I also recalled seeing a dough recipe that was developed specifically for bread sticks. It is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1486.msg13527.html#msg13527. You will note that that recipe calls or butter or shortening and milk.

FYI, if you are interested, it is possible to par-bake bread sticks and garlic knots, as this article by Tom Lehmann (In Lehmann's Terms), at http://www.pmq.com/mag/20070607/lehmann.php, makes clear.

I will be interested in seeing if your bread sticks end up too big because of the increased thickness factor. As I understand it, the lightness of bread sticks is supposed to come from letting the bread stick dough pieces rise/proof before baking. If the rise/proof step is skipped, you may end up with bread sticks of the right final size but they may be dense.

You might also get some tips or hints from Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6996.msg60294/topicseen.html#msg60294.

Peter

EDIT (1/25/13): Since the link to the above Lehmann article is no longer operative, see the Wayback Machine link to the same article at http://web.archive.org/web/20100324002523/http://www.pmq.com/mag/20070607/lehmann.php
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 11:58:40 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Lehmann Crazy Bread
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2010, 07:11:45 PM »
gijoe985,

I don't know if this will help you are not, but this is the way I make cheesy bread sticks.
         
They really arenít crazy bread, but I did these with my current dough and the regular Lehmann dough. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg98114.html#msg98114 They can be made thicker or thinner, just by opening the dough to different thicknesses.  If you want to see a picture of about how thin I make the dough, here is a picture of the dough used for garlic knots.  It is about the same thickness as the cheesy bread sticks. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg98110.html#msg98110

 I donít know how thick you want your crazy bread, but it isnít hard to make your dough anyway you want.  I did experiment with cinnamon bread sticks, but donít have any pictures of them.

I donít let my dough proof or rise after cutting.  I just  put the cheese and herbs on after cutting, but can see how that would help to get a higher crazy bread.

I would be interested in seeing how your crazy bread turns out.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline gijoe985

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Re: Lehmann Crazy Bread
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2010, 01:04:57 PM »

I will be interested in seeing if your bread sticks end up too big because of the increased thickness factor. As I understand it, the lightness of bread sticks is supposed to come from letting the bread stick dough pieces rise/proof before baking. If the rise/proof step is skipped, you may end up with bread sticks of the right final size but they may be dense.


Well, didn't take pictures. They were braided, rose, they didn't brown very well, but were so light and fluffy. Now, that you mention above, I think LC crazy bread is fairly dense...