Author Topic: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure  (Read 2223 times)

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Offline PizzaEater

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Im having issues with my latest dough attempt. Ive tried to make Alton Browns latest dough recipe.

    *  16 ounces all-purpose flour, plus extra for peel and rolling
    * 1 envelope instant or rapid rise yeast
    * 1 tablespoon kosher salt
    * 10 ounces warm water, approximately 105 degrees F
    * 2 tablespoons olive oil, plus 2 teaspoons for bowl
    * 1 tablespoon malted barley syrup

Using my dough calculator I came up with these number in bakers% (FYI After my first failed attempt I also compared the values with the calculator in the tools sections, same results):

Flour - 100%
Water - 64.83%
Oil - 6.1%
Yeast - 1.5%
Salt - 3.7%
Malted Barley Syrup - 4.6%

I scaled the recipe to make 2 10 pizzas with a TF of .103 and came Up with there numbers:

Flour 253.8 grams
Water 164.5 grams
Inst. Yeast 3.8 grams
Oil 15.5 grams
Barly Malt 11.7 grams

I then round to nearest gram.

The only difference I made was I used Bread flour instead of AP, just what I had on hand. Also used a food processor instead of a stand mixer.

The result was a unworkable over hydrated mess, both times. I can only guess the issue lies with either the use of a food processor or the amount of liquids when combined rise the hydration level too high.

Would like to hear input from the guys here and your ideas.

Thanks


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 12:02:08 PM »
PizzaEater,

As a point of clarification, can you tell me (1) whether the 10 ounces of water is by weight or by volume, and (2) whether the Kosher salt is Morton's or Diamond Crystal?

As a generalization, the formula water and the formula oil both have the capacity to make the dough feel wet. Also, the malted barley malt syrup contains about 21% water (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5601/2). At one tablespoon of malted barley syrup, you are only talking about a few grams of water but it will have an additive effect on total hydration.

When I worked on the Papa John's clone doughs, which contain a lot of oil (over 7%), I found it necessary to adjust the formula water so that the combination of the hydration percent and oil percent was close to the rated absorption value of the flour I used. In my case, I was mainly working with bread flour. Not long ago, I discussed this subject at Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11346.msg103177/topicseen.html#msg103177. In your case, I believe the problem is most likely a total "effective" hydration that is too high because of the additive effects of the hydration (water), oil and the water in the barley malt syrup.

Peter

Offline PizzaEater

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Re: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2010, 12:08:19 PM »
PizzaEater,

As a point of clarification, can you tell me (1) whether the 10 ounces of water is by weight or by volume, and (2) whether the Kosher salt is Morton's or Diamond Crystal?

As a generalization, the formula water and the formula oil both have the capacity to make the dough feel wet. Also, the malted barley malt syrup contains about 21% water (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5601/2). At one tablespoon of malted barley syrup, you are only talking about a few grams of water but it will have an additive effect on total hydration.

When I worked on the Papa John's clone doughs, which contain a lot of oil (over 7%), I found it necessary to adjust the formula water so that the combination of the hydration percent and oil percent was close to the rated absorption value of the flour I used. In my case, I was mainly working with bread flour. Not long ago, I discussed this subject at Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11346.msg103177/topicseen.html#msg103177. In your case, I believe the problem is most likely a total "effective" hydration that is too high because of the additive effects of the hydration (water), oil and the water in the barley malt syrup.

Peter


Water was by weight. Salt was Diamond Crystal, but still added by weight. Which is always the case when I make a new dough recipe or use a new ingredient. I'll take a look at the post. Regardless and with out having read the post yet how about an educated guess on to adjust the recipe?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 12:14:51 PM by PizzaEater »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2010, 03:07:21 PM »
PizzaEater,

I converted your recipe to baker's percent format and used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the following dough formulation:

Flour (100%):
Water (62.5%):
IDY (1.5625%):
Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt (2.24867%):
Olive Oil (5.95237%):
Non-Diastatic Barley Malt Syrup (4.62962%):
Total (176.89316%):
453.6 g  |  16 oz | 1 lbs
283.5 g  |  10 oz | 0.63 lbs
7.09 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.35 tsp | 0.78 tbsp
10.2 g | 0.36 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp
27 g | 0.95 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6 tsp | 2 tbsp
21 g | 0.74 oz | 0.05 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp
802.39 g | 28.3 oz | 1.77 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation

Using the above baker's percents to make an amount of dough for two 10" pizzas using a thickness factor of 0.103 yields the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (62.5%):
IDY (1.5625%):
Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt (2.24867%):
Olive Oil (5.95237%):
Non-Diastatic Barley Malt Syrup (4.62962%):
Total (176.89316%):
Single Ball:
259.3 g  |  9.15 oz | 0.57 lbs
162.06 g  |  5.72 oz | 0.36 lbs
4.05 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.35 tsp | 0.45 tbsp
5.83 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.71 tsp | 0.57 tbsp
15.43 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.43 tsp | 1.14 tbsp
12 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 1.71 tsp | 0.57 tbsp
458.68 g | 16.18 oz | 1.01 lbs | TF = 0.103
229.34 g | 8.09 oz | 0.51 lbs
Note: Dough is for two 10" pizzas; thickness factor = 0.103; no bowl residue compensation

In either of the above cases, the "effective" hydration is equal to almost 69.5%. Unless one uses a considerable amount of bench flour, that is a high hydration value. It is also likely to be difficult to mix/knead a dough with that effective hydration value in a food processor.

I am not familiar with the Alton Brown dough recipe but if you want to modify it to make it easier to make the dough, I would shoot for an effective hydration of about 62% if you are using a bread flour. That means a combination of hydration (water) and oil that equals about 62%. You should be able to use the expanded dough calculating tool to apportion the water and oil based on what you think you would like to achieve in the way of final results. For example, you might decide that you would like to keep all of the formula oil in the dough. That would be offset by lowering the hydration percent while keeping the total at around 62%. That combination would yield a crust that is similar to a Papa John's crust but with a somewhat thinner crust. There are many other possible combinations that should work.

I might add that the amount of yeast (1.5625% IDY) seems like a lot if the dough is to be cold fermented. It would be considered high (about double) even for an emergency type dough that is to be made and used in a few hours. Not being familiar with the Alton Brown recipe, I can't comment further on what might be a proper amount of yeast to use for the type of results you would like to achieve while staying within the parameters of the Brown recipe. Too many changes and you may end up with a different recipe with different results.

Peter




Offline IndyRob

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Re: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2010, 06:04:06 PM »
A salt content of 3.7% seems like too much.  I looked for this specifically at first because I too have failed twice with an Alton Brown dough recipe.  I don't think this is the same one because of the barley syrup.  But I did recall that the recipe I used had a disclaimer on the web site saying they had had a lot of reports of failures and suspected varying brands of kosher salt being the culprit.

My attempts seemed too dense and just plain didn't rise, so it doesn't seem like the same problem.  But I finally decided that AB was not my go-to guy for pizza dough advice.  There are far better people for that posting here.

My utility dough (for pan pizza) has a 70% hydration with about 2% of oil.  So the, um, liquidation factor should be similar to your 64% hydration plus 6% oil.  This dough would be viewed as loose or maybe limp here, but I don't experience what you describe.  But then, I use a high gluten flour.


Offline PizzaEater

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Re: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2010, 02:15:51 PM »
Regardless the salt is not going to make a difference for the problem I'm having. Looking at the recipe I see no reason why the recipe has fail twice in the same manner. The first time I thought I must have misread the amount of water I added, the second time I had the same result. Even with the high hydration of my dough vs. Pete's it should still be easy workable. The dough I had was a mess, impossible to be worked by hand or machine.

Pete - As for the amount of yeast, Alton added a single packet for I'm guessing convenience sake. Additionally this was a what we cal an "Emergency" dough. Hence the reason for the Barley Malt Syrup. I also see no reason such a huge failure would be due to using a food processor vs. a stand mixer.

Anyway I may try your advice and lower the oil and water and see how it goes.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 02:24:25 PM by PizzaEater »

Offline scott123

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Re: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2010, 02:39:37 PM »
What brand of flour are you using? What brand of malted barley syrup?

You're using the dough blade on the food processor, correct?

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 10:46:57 PM »
Malted barley syrup? Are you sure that wasn't a bagel recipe that Alton was doing?

Offline buzz

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Re: Need help on Alton Browns Latest Dough Recipe - Made Twice and Failure
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2010, 08:58:41 AM »
You shouldn't be having any problems! 16 ounces of flour is @3 1/2 cups and 10 ounces of water is 1 1/4 cups, which should work just fine. Alton kneads his dough for 15 minutes.

I would try it again!


 

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