Author Topic: New Challenge, New Pizza  (Read 4253 times)

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Offline hotsawce

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2010, 05:00:30 PM »
Scott, interesting stuff.

As for the home oven thing, I still think it's possible. I can cook a normal pie in about 6 minutes, so I think this is doable. What could be done is an adaptation of Foolish Poolish oven method under the broiler. Perhaps put the stone in the second highest rack to the broiler, preheat for an hour or so with broiler on, and slide it onto the stone. Think this is a possibility?


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2010, 05:19:21 PM »
Scott, interesting stuff.

As for the home oven thing, I still think it's possible. I can cook a normal pie in about 6 minutes, so I think this is doable. What could be done is an adaptation of Foolish Poolish oven method under the broiler. Perhaps put the stone in the second highest rack to the broiler, preheat for an hour or so with broiler on, and slide it onto the stone. Think this is a possibility?

It's possible alright.  I just did it.  Not Mario's pizza but it's ultra thin.  Details later.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 05:20:56 PM by Tranman »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2010, 05:22:02 PM »
more pics.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2010, 05:41:18 PM »
That looks quite delicious. Tranman, you always manage to impress, and it looks about as thin as Mario's to me!

Looking forward to the details, but enjoy your pizza  ;D

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2010, 05:45:11 PM »
Thanks HS.  You're too kind.  a few more pics.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2010, 06:58:50 PM »
Ok HS, here are some details.   I basically made an ultra thin NY pizza.  Took my typically NY dough and stretched it really thin almost to window pane thin.  This was a 105gm dough ball that I stretched into a 14" pie.  As you can see it reaches the edges of my peel which is 14".    Also slide it right into the home oven on a stone temp of 650.  Baked around 3 mins?  I didn't really watch the clock but just watched the pie b/c I didn't want it to burn. 

The dough:  It was made by feel.  I started with 100 gm of HG flour.  Took about half of that and added 15gm of starter (1T) and 1/4 tsp of ADY (rehydrated with warm water), and added 1/4 tsp salt.  I then added a measure of water in and stir to get a batter consistency.  Let it rest for 10-15min or so, and added a bit more of the remaining flour, rested 5-10m, etc until the flour was gone.  Handed kneaded it added in another 20gm or so of AP flour this time as I kneaded it until "it felt right" (whatever that means - lol).  Kneading time was about 7 min, rested 5 min, folded/balled 10x or so, rested reballed again and into bowls for proofing.  If I had to guess, the hydration was in the high 70's maybe even low 80's.

The final dough weight was around 210.  It was divided into 2 equal balls of 105gm each.  I put the wrapped bowl out in the sun for 30m or so to kick start the yeast and then left it outside in the shade on my patio table.  (temp of 80f?).   I meant to bake in 3 hours but my wife wanted to go to Costco and we got stuck there.  That is I wanted to proof it for 2-3 hours and then start the oven which takes about 1 hour and bake.

When we got back I can tell the dough was on the verge of having been overproofed.  With another hour to go for the oven warm up, this dough proofed for about almost 4 hours which was too long.  So instead of baking it last (as i had 3 other pies in line first for the oven), I baked these first. 

The opened very easily (sign that it was overproofed) and I only had 1 tiny teensy hole to patch.  Once on the peel they didn't retract much.  I generously floured the peel and slide them easily (as I would normally) onto a 650F stone on the 3rd rack of my oven using the broiler method.  Bake time was somewhere around 3-3.5min maybe? rotating every 45s or so x 4. 

Texturewise, the center had a nice chew to it and the crust was crispy cracker like croutons.   That can be fixable by making a thicker rim.  I made 2 pies.  The first one was cheese only and the 2nd was pepperoni.  I thin out the sauce as my usual sauce is thick.   I also use cheese sparingly on the first pie as I didn't want to weigh it down.

On the 2nd i realized that I could add more cheese as the first was not hard to slide into the oven.  The 2nd pie hand a better and chewier texture to it.  The first pie was so thin, a few spots in the center of the pie starter burning through.  The bottom was easily foldable and not really crispy at all. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 07:02:31 PM by Tranman »

Offline norma427

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2010, 07:47:56 PM »
Tranman,

Thanks for your details.  :) I enjoyed reading what you did.  Now you are a thin master, also.  ;D

Norma
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Online scott123

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2010, 08:33:10 PM »
Wow, that was fast.  17 hours from the time this thread was begun to the production of a reasonable facsimile.

I'm curious, what's going on with the stone temp? I think the color on the bottom of the crust is the only area that needs improvement.

And, btw, I don't think that dough was overproofed. As far as I'm concerned, it's practically impossible to overproof a same day dough.  It's easy to get a same day dough to rise and then collapse, but, to me, that's far from overproofed. Overproofed is when the enzyme and yeast activity generate so much sugar, alcohol and byproducts that the dough starts breaking down.  It's almost like it's digesting itself/a catabolic process. The dough turns darker, clear and develops a lot of off flavors, one of which is an overbearing alcohol note. The gluten framework breaks down and bubbles deflate during baking.

When young/same day dough is allowed to rise and collapse, it just means that a single set of gluten bubbles have failed. The gluten, overall, though, is still very strong and there's still plenty of yeast nutrients in the dough- and very little flavor.

Which is one of the reasons why you can't just go by volume when judging proper fermentation. A doubled same day dough is an entirely different animal from a doubled 3 day dough. If you know what to look for (and smell for), though, the difference is fairly easily discernible.

Offline Jackitup

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2010, 08:44:37 PM »
Nice job, although I might eat 2-3 of those it looks quite tasty. How was the overall texture and flavor and all.
Jon
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2010, 08:58:38 PM »
Tranman,

Thanks for your details.  :) I enjoyed reading what you did.  Now you are a thin master, also.  ;D

Norma

Thanks Norma, but I'm far from being a master.  Someday though....I'll always be a student.

Scott, thanks for the clarification.  I had always thought overproofed was when the dough isn't able to support itself and collapses.  Good to know it's still useable even if it collapses.  This was on the verge of collapsing but didn't.

when HS first posted the links, it really just looked like a NY style pie stretched really thin to me.  Knowing that I had gotten some really thin centered pies when i first started I was confident I could duplicate the thinness of it.  The only things I was sure about was if it would be difficult to load using a peel or not.  I assumed it would take considerable skill, but obviously it doesn't.  Wasn't any harder loading it than a regular pie.  

The bottom looks the way it does b/c I used a lot of bench flour which in hindsight was unnecessary.  I also loaded it at a stone temp of 650-ish b/c the site said they baked it at 550.  I dunno.....in my oven with my primo stone, I think it would have handled a stone temp of 750 easy.  If I do this again, I'll bake it like I bake my regular NY pies at 750 and see.  That should give some more browning on the bottom.  

Also another method of getting more browning or crispiness to the bottom would be to preheat a pizza pan over the stone under the broiler.  With the properties of metal pan, the bottom should crisp right up.   I may try that next time.

Here's a another pic of the bottom I forgot to post earlier.  Overall, I just got a little lucky with this one.  As I like to say, it's always better to be lucky than good.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 09:27:50 PM by Tranman »


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2010, 09:03:01 PM »
Nice job, although I might eat 2-3 of those it looks quite tasty. How was the overall texture and flavor and all.
Jon

Thx, Jon.  Yes I forgot to mention, but those 14' pies disappeared after a few bites. LOL.  I wonder how much Mario's is charging for them.  It had better be cheap cuz I think I could put away at least 2 of these guys. 

The texture of the first pie with less sauce and cheese was a teensy bit crisp on the bottom and had a slight chew to it.  The texture on the 2nd pie which had more sauce and cheese was slightly chewy with no crunchiness to it whatsoever.  The crust on both pies were cracker crunchy b/c of the thinness.  To get a bit more chew, I would do as Peter posted and add lots of oil into it and maybe make the rim bigger.  The rims on these were just slightly thicker than the center when stretching them out, though I was trying to keep it all uniform. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 09:33:21 PM by Tranman »

Offline Gino that Bastad

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2010, 02:55:38 AM »
That looks like EXACTLY what I want to make! Maybe a tad bit thicker. Is that High Gluten flour or 00 you're using there? Also what type of cheese?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2010, 03:34:08 AM »
That looks like EXACTLY what I want to make! Maybe a tad bit thicker. Is that High Gluten flour or 00 you're using there? Also what type of cheese?

High gluten bread flour but you can use 00 if you want to.  I can't remember the exact brand of cheese but it was likely some supermarket mozz.

Offline Gino that Bastad

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Re: New Challenge, New Pizza
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2010, 10:44:35 AM »
High gluten bread flour but you can use 00 if you want to.  I can't remember the exact brand of cheese but it was likely some supermarket mozz.

thanks!


 

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