Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?

[norma427]

Peter,

I believe no matter who the person is, there should be respect shown to them.  Even if they are rich, poor, have less knowledge, or other things, there always is knowledge to be learned from anyone. I also believe we were all created equal (maybe not in terms of money or circumstances in our lives), but each person can help another person in some way. The only way I won’t show respect to someone if they act ignorant or put themselves above everyone else. 

I appreciate all Tom Lehmann’s knowledge.  His knowledge is so great  and I am very appreciative of how he helps others on PMQTT, without any pay.  Tom Lehmann is a lot like you sharing your knowledge with others and doing it for free.  Most of the members of this forum do the same.  I appreciate all the help they have given me and others in learning about pizza and anything related to pizza.

I also see now there can be many ways to go about trying this par-baked Ultra-Thin Crust. More things to think about.  I wasn’t sure before, but think I will still need to dock the dough, even with using a combination of pans.  When I watched the video and looked at the pictures you had referenced I didn’t see docking, but guess that is the right approach.  In the next week, I will try out the same formula in the deep-dish pans to see what happens.  The only thing that has me confused is Tom Lehmann saying about baking at 500 degrees F.  To me, that sounds like to high of a temperature to be baking the Ultra-Thin Crusts.  Will have to think about that.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

It looks like Tom Lehmann is right. There are quite a few companies that make par-baked pizza crusts. I tried to track down the names that Tom mentioned in response to one of your PMQTT posts (http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=61715#p61715), but I also extended the search and found some more. I have given the list of names below in two sections, the names from Tom's list and the names I found from my extended search. I could not find "Gugliani's" or LaRosa (although there is a pizzeria in Cincinnati by that name).

Teeney Foods: http://www.teenyfoods.com/ (see Business Articles)
Rizzuto Foods: http://www.rizzutofoods.com/index.html (see slide show)
Drayton Foods: http://www.draytonenterprises.com/
Nation Pizza Products: http://www.nationpizza.com/default.html
Fresca Food: http://www.frescafoodsinc.com/

Colors Gourmet Pizza: http://www.colorspizza.com/handm.htm
TNT Crust Company (part of Tyson): http://www.tntcrust.com/CompanyInfo.asp
Baker’s Quality Pizza Crusts: http://www.bakersqualitypizzacrusts.com/index.htm
K.B.Pizza Crust Company: http://www.kbpizza.com/par-baked.htm

It seems pretty clear that the dough for pre-bake crusts can take the form of dough balls that can be opened up to form skins or the skins can be die cut from sheets. The skins can be docked or not. And they can be encased and baked, or baked in the open, usually in conveyor ovens. The dough can be subjected to long or short fermentation, with one or more proofs.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

Teeny Foods does seem to make a lot of products.  They also seem to proof their dough.  I can’t imagine what it would take to bake all those products and have them come out consistently.  They also talk about proper baking time and temperature and their speed controllers that regulates how fast the product passes through the oven.

Rizzuto Food Inc. does seem to dock their thin crusts.  Drayton Foods does have sheeted crusts.  It made me laugh when under Sheeted Crusts, it said great for the new thin crust craze.  I like the Nation Pizza website that shows their products that make them look like they are made in a WFO.  Their website also had me laughing when they said delicious pizza just doesn’t happen overnight.  What are cheese blanks, under Pre-made pizzas?  I never heard of them.  I also like the guy with the chef hat on twirling the dough. Says their Thin and Crispy can always be counted on for crispy crackery crust and states their do dock for the thin crust. LOL the guy in the lab coat with looks like a chemistry lab and doing research for their pizzas.  He even has a mortar and pestle. I like that the Colors company offers Cocktail Crust and Pizzetes.  Wonder if they make face Pizzets.  I see they also offer a Ultra-thin crust.  Color Gourmet offers what they say are Artisan Handmade Par-baked pizza crusts.  INT has the Preminum Golden Crunchy Thin Crust, even with buttery flavor.  Baker’s Quality gives the weight of their thin par-baked 14" crusts of 9.2 oz. They also give nutritional data for their par-baked crusts.  K.B.Pizza says they have a lengthy aging process. Sorry I kept rambling on, but I find all this interesting and wonder who buys all those products from all these companies.  With all the pizza chains and independent  pizza operators how can all these companies do a business?  I am just curious how all these companies can do a good enough business and stay in operation.  It amazes me how many companies there are and all the products they offer.

You and Tom Lehmann were right, in there are many companies that have par-baked crust.  Thanks for finding all the links.  I will look these over more.

You are right that the pre-baked crusts could be done in many ways.  Now to figure out what the best way to do this in a home oven.  I will think this over and try another experiment to see what happens.  I don’t think at this point I want to try the par-baked crust at market, but might rethink about that after I try the par-baked at home some more.  Just like pizza making, there are so many variables to think over.
               
Did you see another person had posted at PMQTT about par-baked crust and what Tom Lehmann answered him? http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9044#p61713  I now wonder what the gum blend Ticaloid Lite is. Never heard of that either.  Tom Lehmann said he did extensive development work on that a number of years ago. Tom Lehmann does have a lot of knowledge about many things relating to pizza.  Just wish I had all that knowledge.

Thanks again, I enjoyed reading about the companies that make the par-baked crusts.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I, too, was surprised at how many companies are out there that are in the par-baked crust business. I had heard of a few of them from Tom Lehmann PMQTT posts but most of them were beneath my radar. Unfortunately, knowing more about how par-baked crusts are made in the commercial world does not tell us what Ultra-Thin is doing--in terms of fermentation method and duration (including proofing methods) and their baking methods. So, even if the dough formulation that we came up with is correct, or nearly so, a dough made with that dough formulation may not bake the same way in our home ovens and baking configurations/times/temperatures as is done at Ultra-Thin's production facilities. One of the websites of one of the par-bake vendors mentioned that the thickness of a dough skin--I believe it was an article at the Teeney Foods website--was very important to the final results. So, that means that both the dough formulation and skin thickness have to be right.

I also saw the PMQ post discussing the use of the Ticaloid gum blend. Having played around before with par-baked crusts, I saw that one of the problems with par-baked crusts is that they can become quite dry when dressed and finished baking. There is also a delicate balance between bake times/temperatures and the numbers/weights of things put on the par-baked crusts so that you end up with all of the toppings and the cheese being properly baked while, at the same time, the final crust has the desired color. Since we don't know if these are problems with the Ultra-Thin crusts and whether they use a product like the Ticaloid gum blend to address some of these issues (since we haven't seen an ingredients list), we will have to wait until your next results to see what you get.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

I don’t really believe the par-baked crust are fermented that long.  I think, but could be wrong, that the proofing helps to get the desired taste of the dough along with more yeast.  I don’t see how they would ferment all those products for a long while. 

I can understand that baking in a home oven could be a lot different than a conveyor oven.  Even baking in my home oven and at market are a lot different.  The same dough formula does come out different most of the times. 

I couldn’t get this Ultra-Thin crust out of my mind today, so decided to try my regular preferment Lehmann dough out at market to see what kinds of results there could be in my deck oven.  I just took a 5.7 oz. dough ball and rolled it as thin as I could.  I would have tried the last formula I used, but didn’t have time to mix a dough ball using that formula.  I had my docker at home, so I just used a plastic fork to dock the dough.  Since I only had one deep-dish pan at market, I had to come up with something else to use for two pans.  I decided to use two regular 16" pizza pans that had recesses in them.  I oiled the one pan, put the rolled out skin on and then oiled it again.  Then I placed plastic wrap over the skin and pan to keep the dough moist.  I put the pan with the crust into my Hatco unit and upped the temperature to 120 degrees F.  I was worried I might kill the yeast.  After about 10 minutes I dropped the temperature to 115 degrees F.  and left it there for another 20 minutes.  Then I greased the bottom of another pizza pan and put the deep-dish pan on top, so the crust wouldn’t rise.  I checked on the crust about every two minutes, by using a metal spatula and just lifting the top pan a little.  This is what happened with the dough and the final Ultra-Thin pizza.  After the crust was par-baked, I dressed the crust with my regular pizza sauce and the cheese I used was the mild white cheddar cheese curds, that I had purchased at market the week before.  The crust did really get thin and stay moist.  I don’t know how this will work with the other formula, but I liked the results from today.  It can be seen how thin the crust got, and also how the final pizza looked.

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

last pictures

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

That was a good experiment, if only to tell us that sandwiching the skin and baking it between two pans seems to be an effective approach. Were you able to conclude that the Lehmann par-baked crust was similar in texture and/or taste to an Ultra-Thin par-baked crust. Also, was the thickness similar from what you can recall?

As I mentioned before, there are many options available from a fermentation standpoint. But you are correct that a short fermentation time should work, especially with a lot of yeast. In fact, you will recall that in the Pizza Hut patent we discussed earlier, the dough right out of the mixer (or later if a bulk proof is use) is extruded and formed into a sheet and skins are cut out of that sheet and put into pans for proofing and baking. That method prompted me to look at the ingredients list for Pizza Hut's Thin 'N Crispy Dough, at http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/PIZZA%20HUT%20INGREDIENT%20STATEMENTS%202008.pdf. What I wondered is where the yeast showed up in that list. As you will see from the above pdf document, the yeast is last in the ingredients list, right after the salt. That doesn't mean that there is little yeast since salt itself can be quite high (e.g., 1.5-2%). Of course, we don't know how Pizza Hut actually makes the Thin 'N Crispy crusts, which I believe are par-baked (and frozen for later use), but it is plausible that a lot of yeast is used in a mass-production process such as described in the PH patent.

Peter

EDIT (4/20/13): For the Wayback Machine link to the above Pizza Hut pdf document, see http://web.archive.org/web/20100602083641/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/PIZZA%20HUT%20INGREDIENT%20STATEMENTS%20September%202008.pdf

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I forgot to mention earlier but when I was researching the patents for par-baking crusts yesterday, I found a second Pizza Hut patent on that subject, at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6843167.html. It has similarities to the methods described in the other PH patent, including the way the dough is made, sheeted, cut, proofed and baked. Again, the proof times would be quite short. Since we don't know if Ultra-Thin uses similar production methods, ultimately you will have to play around with fermentation methods and times to see which method gives you the crust flavors reminiscent of an Ultra-Thin crust.

I also looked at the PH nutrition data for a 14" Thin 'N Crispy cheese pizza, at http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/PH&WSNationalBrochure4.13.10.pdf, but it appears from the weight data for that pizza (around 25 ounces, baked) that the crust for such a pizza is not as thin as an Ultra-Thin par-baked crust.

Peter

EDIT (4/20/13): For the Wayback Machine link to the above Pizza Hut pdf document, see http://web.archive.org/web/20100508193636/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/PH&WSNationalBrochure4.13.10.pdf

[norma427]

Peter,

Since you posted all the links to show how a par-baked crust was made commercially, I wanted to see, just for experimental purposes, if a crust would stay moist, not rise and would bake okay between two pans.  I really can’t say this crust tasted like the Ultra-Thin crust, but it was still good.  As can be seen on the pictures the crust wasn’t fully par-baked, but I wasn’t sure how long to bake with this experiment.  I didn’t want the crust to be stiff when it was finished, because it needed to go though another bake, after adding the dressings.  The thickness was close to a Ultra-Thin crust in my opinion.  I held it up to the light and you could see though the crust.  Steve and I both tasted the finished pie and did like the taste of the thin crust, even if it was a Lehmann dough.  I don’t know how the crust would have been any thinner. After par-baking the crust it wasn’t gummy or sticky. It looked dry, but still was moist.  Must have been all the added oil. I am not sure how long this par-baked crust should be baked, but will experiment with that more.  I was surprised that even for experimental purposes that the regular recessed pizza pans worked out as well as they did. In my opinion the final bake could have been a little longer.  Since the edges of the crust were starting to get brown, I took the pizza out of the oven.  The final bake was on the stone at the top deck, where the temperature isn’t as high.

Right now, I think your suggestions before about using a proofing box will work to proof the crust.  The Hatco unit did work okay today.

I can see how the Pizza Huts Thin and Crispy yeast is listed last on the ingredients.  It is interesting  how the high salt can offset the yeast, so it would be listed last in the ingredients.

I will  play around with fermentation methods and times to see if there can be similar results achieve with trying this Ultra-Thin Crust.   

Thanks you for the additional links.  They were interesting. 

I am anxious to try out the formula you posted to see if the crust will stay moister and also bake between two pans.  First I will have to put the proofing box together.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I took it from your Reply 60 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11044.msg100060.html#msg100060 that there is oil in the dough used to make the Ultra-Thin par-baked crusts. From your recent Lehmann experiment, it occurred to me that part of the total oil from the Ultra-Thin nutrition data may represent oil used in the pans or other assembly used to bake the pizza and possibly surface oil on the skin. I don't know how much of such oil, if any, is reflected in the way that the nutrition data for the Ultra-Thin product was prepared. I also know from personal experience that not all of the oil placed in a pan is absorbed by the skin during its bake. I mention this point because it may be possible to adjust the dough formulation I last gave you to reduce the amount of oil in the dough and allocate part of the total oil to the pans and/or any oil used to coat a skin. Since I originally calculated the hydration after I calculated the weights of the rest of the ingredients, it might be possible to use the oil reduction to increase the hydration. If you'd like me to adjust the dough formulation along these lines, let me know.

The other point I'd like to make is that in the '968 Pizza Hut patent we recently discussed (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6327968.html), there is a discussion of the types of materials used for the pan that holds the unbaked skins and the lid assembly that is superimposed on the pan. For example, if you want to have a crispy underside for the par-baked crusts, you might select aluminum for the material of the pan because of its good thermal conductivity; if you also want the top of the par-baked crust to be more moist and tender than the underside, you might use stainless steel as the material of the lid assembly because of its lower thermal conductivity. The patent mentions other possibilities for materials for the pan and lid assembly based on the characteristics of the par-baked crusts that one is trying to achieve. If you remember what the tops and bottoms of the Ultra-Thin par-baked crusts were like, that might help you decide on how to par-bake the ones you make.

BTW, did you take the before and after weights of the Lehmann par-baked crust you made?

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

I didn’t think about the oil used in the pans, in relation to the total formula.  I also know from making different kinds of pizzas with oil in the pans, there can be oil left on these pans, with varying amounts.  Your idea is good that maybe the hydration of the formula you posted before could be upped.  When I mixed and rolled out that dough, it was really dry. 

When I oiled the pans yesterday in the experiment, there was still oil left on the pans after the par-bake.  The par-baked crust didn’t seem oily at all and I had used a good amount of oil for the oiling of the pans and skin.  I also have no idea on how the oil is reflected in the nutritional data. 

I think, with relationship to how dry the dough was before, in my other attempt with the original formula you posted,  I would  like to try a higher hydration in my next attempt, if you are willing to figure out how much the hydration could be upped, by decreasing the oil. 

I also think your ideas are good, in relation to finding the best way to par-baked the crust in what type of pans could be used in conjunction with one another.  I can see how different pans, in relationship to thermal conductivity, par-bake pizzas and will think about that.

What I can remember about the Ultra-Thin crusts were the crust weren’t too light in color, looked foldable (I guess either they were made fresh or just left until they were unfrozen) and quickly baked.  I wish I could remember more, but since it’s been over a year since I saw them, my memory doesn’t recall everything.  I usually observe things I am interested in, but at that time, didn’t know much about making a pizza crust.  That is before I even started making pizza.  If I had the chance now, I would have observed more. 

I will look over the link again and see what materials might be used.  Still am not sure about all this, because each company might be using different materials for their molds.  I know a company that reproduces molds in another city, near me and if I can remember the companies name, will call them.  I know another person that might also have that information, so maybe she can help me find out the information.

I didn’t take the weight of the unbaked crust and then weight after it was baked.  Will have to do that the next time.  I was just interested in seeing if a crust could be par-baked, using what equipment I had on hand.

Thanks for your insight,

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

This project is so easy I am really getting bored  . I am not sure which is worse, this project or the Mack's project  .

I am going to have to spend some time to see how the original dough formulation can be modified. When I did a quick assessment of the situation, I concluded that if we increase the amount of yeast to 1% IDY, so that you can make and use the dough in a few hours, the added IDY replaces part of the formula water in the dough formulation (the total dough weight has to remain the same) and reduces the hydration of the dough instead of increasing it. I am not worried at this point about the hydration. If you use a proofing box, you should have no problem rolling out the dough. As you may recall, using a proofing box to warm up the dough to make it easier to roll out, using an ordinary rolling pin, was central to my experiments making DKM's cracker-style dough. I first discussed this method at Reply 16 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.msg49138.html#msg49138. Using a proof temperature of around 100 degrees F should not be a problem. I have gone as high as 130 degrees F but I would not use that temperature for a sustained period. Yeast dies at around 145 degrees F.

I also discovered that it will be difficult to come up with a dough formulation that is accurate without knowing how to allocate the total formula oil between the oil that goes into the dough itself and the oil that is used to coat the pans and/or the skin. As you know, oil used in a pan does not all end up in the dough. At this point, we don't even know if there is an allocation of the total formula oil to the two applications. I might suggest a revised dough formulation that is fairly generic but with the calculated amount of dough and the calculated weights of salt and oil (based on the Ultra-Thin nutrition data) and not worry about the actual hydration percent. For such a revised dough formulation, I would perhaps not use a bowl residue compensation since you will be making a 15" skin and cutting out a 14" skin from it, leaving you with some scrap anyway.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

This project is so easy I am really getting bored  . I am not sure which is worse, this project or the Mack's project  .

Peter,

LOL, I agree with you as to which project might be more difficult, this one or the Mack’s.  Yesterday, after I had experimented and made a somewhat Ultra-Thin Crust,  I thought this.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEi5avruZqo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEi5avruZqo</a>

I think now, I might have to rethink about how joyful this adventure might be.    The Celtic Fling is soon in full swing at our local Pa. Renaissance Faire.  I enjoy that place so much, I might just need to go there, so I can get my mind off these two projects. Note the guy dancing at about 6:05 into the video.  He needs total concentration, which this project might also need.  I keep messing up on forgetting to do different steps in many of my attempts for both projects.  Maybe I will get all the steps down if I keep playing around with these projects.

Take all the time you need to see how the original dough formulation can be modified, if you are interested in doing a formulation.  I think this is also going to be a long journey. 

I do recall how you used the proofing box  in making the DMK’s cracker-style dough and how the proofing box helped in being able to manage the dough.  I never tried this low of a dough hydration, so this will be something new for me. 

If you want to suggest a revised dough formulation that is fairly generic, but with the calculated amount of dough and the calculated weights of salt and oil based on the Ultra-Thin nutrition data, I will try the formula to see what happens.  Don’t worry about the hydration at this point.

I never would be able to figure out all this.  My math skills are just too challenged. 

Thanks for your suggestions,

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I agree that some time away from this project seems like a good idea. But not until after this post  .

To update you, I did some more calculations today and tweaked some of the numbers to get a slightly more accurate version of the clone dough formulation that I recently gave to you. However, before suggesting the next iteration for you to consider, I went back to the drawing board and came up with the basic clone dough formulation for the 14" Ultra-Thin par-baked crust. That dough clone formulation is based on a dough weight of 8.925 ounces. That number represents a 5% increase in the 8.5 ounce weight given at the Ultra-Thin website and which I believe to be the weight of a par-baked crust, not an unbaked one. Hopefully, in due course we may learn what actual baking losses are. For the basic dough formulation, I did not use a bowl residue compensation in the enhanced dough calculating tool (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html). It represents just the raw numbers and the starting point for the formulation:

Flour* (100%): Water (40.5983%): IDY (1%): Salt (1.19927%): Olive Oil (3.26679%): Total (146.06436%):

173.23 g  |  6.11 oz | 0.38 lbs 70.33 g  |  2.48 oz | 0.16 lbs 1.73 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.58 tsp | 0.19 tbsp 2.08 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp 5.66 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.26 tsp | 0.42 tbsp 253.02 g | 8.93 oz | 0.56 lbs | TF = 0.057978

*General Mills bromated All Trumps high-gluten flour
Note: Dough is for a single 14" skin and assumes a loss of 5% during baking; thickness factor = 0.057978; no bowl residue compensation

I then scaled up the above dough formulation to the 15" size. It is from the 15" skin that you would cut out a 14" skin, with the rest being scrap (hence the reason for not using any bowl residue compensation). Ideally, the 14" skin would weigh 3.14159 x 7 x 7 x 0.057978 = 8.925 ounces.

The clone dough formulation for the 15" skin is as follows:

Flour* (100%): Water (40.5983%): IDY (1%): Salt (1.19927%): Olive Oil (3.26679%): Total (146.06436%):

198.86 g  |  7.01 oz | 0.44 lbs 80.73 g  |  2.85 oz | 0.18 lbs 1.99 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.66 tsp | 0.22 tbsp 2.38 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp 6.5 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.44 tsp | 0.48 tbsp 290.46 g | 10.25 oz | 0.64 lbs | TF = 0.057978

*General Mills bromated All Trumps high-gluten flour
Note: Dough is for a 15" skin from which a 14" skin is cut and assumes a loss of 5% during baking; thickness factor = 0.057978; no bowl residue compensation

On the matter of allocating the total formula oil, I suggest that you use half of the oil (3.25 grams/0.12 ounce/0.24 t.) for the dough and the rest of the oil (3.25 grams/0.12 ounce/0.24 t.) to brush the pan(s) and/or skin. As a simple test this afternoon, I found that I could brush the entire baking surface of my 14" dark anodized cutter pan with as little as 1/8 teaspoon oil. No doubt, some experimentation would be needed to see how much oil used in this manner is needed to achieve the desired degree of crust browning. In past experiments with my cutter pan, I found that I did not need any oil to achieve good bottom crust browning. I even tried brushing half of the cutter pan with oil and left the other side without oil, and I found that I could not detect a difference in the bottom crust browning.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

I didn’t think you were ready for a rest, yet.    Your mind is always thinking. 

I also believe the weights given for a par-baked Ultra-Thin Crust are more in line with the 8.5 oz. weight and you recent formula with scrap should work out.  I will note to remember to weigh the unbaked and then baked par-baked crust this time.

I will use the formula for the 15" skin you set forth, in my next iteration.

That is interesting that you did a test today to find out how much oil might be needed to achieve a browning of the crust.  I will note how much to save for oiling of the pans.  I am just curious since I don’t have cutter pans, if this is something I might want to look into getting.  They don’t carry them at my nearest Restaurant Store and I was thinking about using the deep-dish pans, but don’t think I am going to be able to check on how the par-baked crust is browning.  When using the pizza pans yesterday, it was easy to check on the par-baked crust.  I will have to think about this more.

I found this patent for making a par-baked crust.  It says one of the processes is steam injection into the dough at step #46 on page three  There are six pages for this Patent.  I can’t get the link to work, but if you put this into your browser, it should come up first.

http://www.wikipatents.com/US-Patent-6365210/pizza-crust-and-process-and-apparatus-for-making-same  hmm, it did work here, but not on my word. 

I now wonder if there is any steam injection to keep the dough moist.  It says on this patent that upon completion of steam injection, this will delay external browning of the dough in par-baking.

I am sure there are many other patents for par-baking a crust, but I haven’t had time to look though all of the patents.  That could also be a long journey.

Don’t you ever get sick of going back to the drawing board?

Thanks for setting forth a formula,

Norma

[norma427]

Peter,

Still no time to rest, like you told me in your previous post.

Another patent for making dough at high relative humidity (95%) Also has very light coat of vegetable oil.  I also wonder how many companies use high relative humidity in their proofers or in combination with other ways to produce a dough that doesn’t brown too fast.  This patent isn’t for Ultra-Thin crust, but a deep-dish or Chicago style. It makes me curious how many different methods there are to go about making a par-baked crust.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4303677.html

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Thank you for bringing the '210 patent to my attention. Actually, the patent has more than six pages. If you click on a thumbnail at the top of the first page, another thumbnail appears for a later page. You might want to read pages 12-16 or so, where you will find a description of the prior art and associated problems and deficiencies. You are correct that the dough skins are passed through a steam chamber before being par-baked. The skins are in pans with sides such that the only part of the skin that is exposed to the steam is the top. There are no covers for the pans. The steam helps retain moisture in the skin so that it doesn't all escape during par-baking, resulting in a more highly hydrated crust and less drying out when the par-baked crust is dressed and finished baking at the pizzeria end or in a consumer's oven. I thought about the moisture retention problem when I came up with the idea of the two superimposed pans as a way of both helping retain moisture in the skin and the par-baked crust while keeping the crust from bubbling or ballooning up. The method is more in line with the methods described in the Pizza Hut patents.

I'm sure there are many patents on this subject. I was more interested in the proofing and humidification methods and temperatures and how the various processes are automated since Ultra-Thin is most likely using mass production to make its par-baked crusts. Unless a particular patent is linked to Ultra-Thin in some way, we can read patents all day long and not know what Ultra-Thin is doing. I'm content for now to take the path we have set for ourselves and see what we get.

Peter