Author Topic: JD's NY  (Read 27397 times)

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Offline deb415611

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #250 on: June 09, 2016, 12:50:52 PM »
Deb

Online jvp123

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #251 on: June 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM »
Josh what was the sauce in Reply 225 and what made you switch to the new one? Did you want something heavier?  Also, what brand of cheese are you using?
I like the way you are stretching those out btw.  Great job.


Jeff

Offline JD

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #252 on: June 09, 2016, 02:16:33 PM »
Josh what was the sauce in Reply 225 and what made you switch to the new one? Did you want something heavier?  Also, what brand of cheese are you using?
I like the way you are stretching those out btw.  Great job.

#225 wasn't doing it for me, it was too watered down. I do like the way it spread but it was a bit boring. I've yet to try my recent recipe with a mix of crushed tomatoes, so next time I think I will substitute the water with a finely milled crushed tomatoes to see if I can get it thinner without sacrificing flavor. I also messed with the seasonings a bit since #225, it helps to have a slightly over-seasoned sauce when you taste it because a lot of the flavor is lost when baked.

This cheese was Saputo from Restaurant Depot, the best of what they offer I believe.

I know I'm running against the grain when it comes to NY style sauce, but I live here and I'm able to compare my pizza to good local shops. After all this experimentation I realized that I have been severely under-seasoning my sauce. The key is balance, you don't want any one seasoning to overpower the others, with maybe an exception to oregano. In the end you just get Umami... kind've like a long island iced tea where it tastes nothing like any of the original liquors  :-D

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #253 on: June 09, 2016, 02:34:40 PM »
Josh,

Maybe you have answered this before but were you able to get side samples of the pizza sauces where you bought the pizzas?

Peter

Offline carl333

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #254 on: June 09, 2016, 02:36:01 PM »
josh, I haven't had a NY slice in 40 years so I have no idea what a NY sauce tastes like. Good to see your on a mission to reverse engineer some of your local pizza joints. I hope that once you finally hit the nail, you will post it in the sauce section of the forum. I'll be watching for it.
Carl

Offline JD

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #255 on: June 09, 2016, 06:43:07 PM »
Josh,

Maybe you have answered this before but were you able to get side samples of the pizza sauces where you bought the pizzas?

Peter

Peter,

I actually did mention it here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=34538.msg422950;topicseen#msg422950

The pizza place I grew up eating, which in my opinion has one of the better NY slices in Long Island, sold me some sauce and cheese. I attempted to reverse engineer it by picking out each individual seasoning, as well as talking to the kid behind the counter to get as much information as he would share. He only gave me basic information (extra heavy sauce thinned with water, plus oregano) but I was able to get close to their flavor by studying their sauce and trial and error.

I believe there is one final ingredient that I'm missing, which may be impossible to get because its is in the air, literally. I think you get a very subtle but important flavor when you make your dough/sauce/pizza inside an active restaurant. The same smell you notice when you walk through the doors may be getting into their pizza which transforms an otherwise good pizza into a great one. It's just a hunch, but you never know


josh, I haven't had a NY slice in 40 years so I have no idea what a NY sauce tastes like. Good to see your on a mission to reverse engineer some of your local pizza joints. I hope that once you finally hit the nail, you will post it in the sauce section of the forum. I'll be watching for it.

Carl - I'd be happy to post a recipe to the sauce section, but I wouldn't do that unless other people have tried and confirmed my recipe. I'm not sure there is much interest in a NY style recipe anyway since most keep it very simple as I have in the past.

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #256 on: June 09, 2016, 09:00:33 PM »
Quote
The same smell you notice when you walk through the doors may be getting into their pizza which transforms an otherwise good pizza into a great one. It's just a hunch, but you never know


 True, you never know, but I'm going to call that power of suggestion.  Smells are powerful motivators...and we have strong memories for them.

Offline carl333

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #257 on: June 10, 2016, 10:39:37 AM »
Josh, after all your hard work trying to dup a sauce at 1 of your local NY pizza joints, I would definitely want to give it a try. I wouldn't expect an exact clone besides I have nothing to compare it to.
Carl

Offline rparker

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #258 on: June 10, 2016, 01:17:15 PM »
Carl - I'd be happy to post a recipe to the sauce section, but I wouldn't do that unless other people have tried and confirmed my recipe. I'm not sure there is much interest in a NY style recipe anyway since most keep it very simple as I have in the past.
Josh,

Mine is not far off from yours now. Mine is Mutti's tomatoes instead of Full Red. Granulated Garlic instead of Garlic Powder. My Parm and Romano goes on the sauce and then on the finished bake instead of in the sauce. I've yet to try Rosemary, and I have not added Basil in a year or so. Those differences notwithstanding, I very much agree that it's got that NY flavor profile to it.

I add a few small twists of ground black pepper on top of the sauce. I like the Saputo, too. I really like adding about 10 grams of a sharper provolone on top of the sauce before putting other cheeses on it. It's an additional flavor layer. It's not for everyone.

I have a can of Full Red. I will try your recipe proper this weekend or early next week and report back to the class.  ;D

Roy

Offline JD

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #259 on: June 10, 2016, 02:23:26 PM »
Thanks for the input Roy. For this last bake I actually omitted the Rosemary and it was fine. The only reason I added it in the first place was because the sauce I purchased had a very small trace of it. I do think the combination of Basil & Oregano is important for what I'm looking for in a NY pie, but there are so many variations on NY style pizza that it may not be what others are looking for. Before you try my sauce, let me post my most up-to-date recipe.

I agree that Provolone can be good on NY style pizza. I used to have access to Bacio's pre-shredded 50/50 mix of mozz & provolone and it was actually very, very good. I believe the provolone they use is very mild because you could barely taste it.

Now that I have a sauce I'm happy with, I'm going to start adding different percentages of sharp white cheddar as our champion Norma does. I'm really looking forward to trying that out.

I think I saw the mutti's at whole foods recently, I'll have to try those out.

Josh,

Mine is not far off from yours now. Mine is Mutti's tomatoes instead of Full Red. Granulated Garlic instead of Garlic Powder. My Parm and Romano goes on the sauce and then on the finished bake instead of in the sauce. I've yet to try Rosemary, and I have not added Basil in a year or so. Those differences notwithstanding, I very much agree that it's got that NY flavor profile to it.

I add a few small twists of ground black pepper on top of the sauce. I like the Saputo, too. I really like adding about 10 grams of a sharper provolone on top of the sauce before putting other cheeses on it. It's an additional flavor layer. It's not for everyone.

I have a can of Full Red. I will try your recipe proper this weekend or early next week and report back to the class.  ;D

Roy

Offline norma427

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #260 on: June 10, 2016, 06:48:08 PM »

Now that I have a sauce I'm happy with, I'm going to start adding different percentages of sharp white cheddar as our champion Norma does. I'm really looking forward to trying that out.


Josh,

Your recent NY style pizza looks very tasty!   8)

I do use blends of cheddar and mozzarella sometimes.  Did you ever try the Cracker Barrel Vermont sharp white cheddar?  It's says it is sharp but it really isn't.

Norma

Offline JD

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #261 on: June 10, 2016, 09:07:08 PM »
Thanks champ  ;D

I've purchased the Cracker Barrel Vermont sharp white cheddar a few times, but they never made it to a pizza night, my wife loves it  :-D

Josh,

Your recent NY style pizza looks very tasty!   8)

I do use blends of cheddar and mozzarella sometimes.  Did you ever try the Cracker Barrel Vermont sharp white cheddar?  It's says it is sharp but it really isn't.

Norma


For those interested, this is the sauce from the last pizza:

Full Red Extra Heavy with Basil - 8oz
Water - 6oz (if using crushed tomatoes, omit water and use 14oz of tomatoes)
Finely grated Parm or Romano - 1 Tbsp
Salt - 1/2 tsp + 1/8 tsp
Basil - 1/8 tsp
Oregano - 3/8 tsp
Garlic Powder - 1/4 tsp
Olive Oil - 1 Tbsp

I know the fractions are a bit strange...


Offline One Eyed Jack

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #262 on: June 11, 2016, 08:06:32 AM »
Great looking pie's!  :drool:

Offline rparker

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #263 on: June 11, 2016, 10:46:02 AM »
Thanks champ  ;D

I've purchased the Cracker Barrel Vermont sharp white cheddar a few times, but they never made it to a pizza night, my wife loves it  :-D


For those interested, this is the sauce from the last pizza:

Full Red Extra Heavy with Basil - 8oz
Water - 6oz (if using crushed tomatoes, omit water and use 14oz of tomatoes)
Finely grated Parm or Romano - 1 Tbsp
Salt - 1/2 tsp + 1/8 tsp
Basil - 1/8 tsp
Oregano - 3/8 tsp
Garlic Powder - 1/4 tsp
Olive Oil - 1 Tbsp

I know the fractions are a bit strange...
Not so strange. It's just where it ended up when the dust settled. I do smaller pies and finish a sauce that day for what I plan to bake out of a bigger container of sauce that has only part of the ingredients. I end up using 1/16th tsp for salt and garlic for about 120g tomatoes. I have 'Pinch" teaspoons that measure out to 1/16th.

I'll run with this. two batches. One using the crushed in place of water and the other not.

There are a couple strategies I've used on the cheddar thing. Using  milder cheddar like the Champ's Cracker Barrel thing is one. The other is to find a very aged white x-tra sharp cheddar that crumbles a bit when slicing. Only about 5-20%. I normally do 15%. Too much is too strong of a cheddar flavor for my tastes. Just right and it helps the NY flavor thing a lot. Orange grease heaven.

Mutti's has a lot of standing water. I end up straining, dividing, emulsifying some olive oil into 1/2 the pulp and all the water and adding the second 1/2 back into the mix to give it texture. I probably would be better served not to do that with your recipe.

Offline rparker

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #264 on: June 16, 2016, 08:41:25 AM »
Thanks champ  ;D

I've purchased the Cracker Barrel Vermont sharp white cheddar a few times, but they never made it to a pizza night, my wife loves it  :-D


For those interested, this is the sauce from the last pizza:

Full Red Extra Heavy with Basil - 8oz
Water - 6oz (if using crushed tomatoes, omit water and use 14oz of tomatoes)
Finely grated Parm or Romano - 1 Tbsp
Salt - 1/2 tsp + 1/8 tsp
Basil - 1/8 tsp
Oregano - 3/8 tsp
Garlic Powder - 1/4 tsp
Olive Oil - 1 Tbsp

I know the fractions are a bit strange...
JD, I may have confused myself, which is far too easy to do. I'm about to mix the standard 8oz Full Red and 6oz water for today's lunch bake. I was going to mix a second batch for later using the crushed tomatoes option. Are you saying crushed tomatoes instead of Full Red and Water, or is it crushed tomatoes and Full Red, but no water?

(probably easier to answer A or B thing below)

A: 14 ounces crushed tomatoes
- or -
B: 14oz Crushed Tomatoes + 8 ounces Full Red

Thanks!

Roy

Offline carl333

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #265 on: June 16, 2016, 12:29:52 PM »

Full Red Extra Heavy with Basil - 8oz

What is this exactly, who makes  and distributes it?

tks
Carl

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #266 on: June 16, 2016, 12:39:30 PM »
Full Red is a Stanislaus product. I don't think there is a retail version, so you would need to check with foodservice distributors.
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Offline rparker

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #267 on: June 16, 2016, 01:18:32 PM »
Mr Josh, this is one fine sauce. Very well balanced. I say without hesitation that it fits NY Style.

I vaguely remember taking Basil out of my own sauce last year. I bet I was using way too much. This blend worked. I'll keep it in mine.

The only thing left for me to decide for my own is whether to use the parm/pecorino in the sauce or on it.

Oh, I did add a few light grinds of black pepper. It's habit more than anything. I had meant to omit today.  ::)

Roy


Offline JD

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #268 on: June 16, 2016, 03:26:19 PM »
Hi Roy, I'm sorry I didn't see this in time but answer A is correct. The purpose of the water is to thin down the extra heavy puree of the full-reds to a crushed tomato-like consistency.  I'm glad you liked the sauce! Thank you for trying it out, open to constructive criticisms.

A buddy of mine who used to make pizza as a kid swears by straight Romano. I've been using a Parm/Romano blend but never straight Romano. I'll have to try that. Pecorino is too fancy for my pizza  :-D

JD, I may have confused myself, which is far too easy to do. I'm about to mix the standard 8oz Full Red and 6oz water for today's lunch bake. I was going to mix a second batch for later using the crushed tomatoes option. Are you saying crushed tomatoes instead of Full Red and Water, or is it crushed tomatoes and Full Red, but no water?

(probably easier to answer A or B thing below)

A: 14 ounces crushed tomatoes
- or -
B: 14oz Crushed Tomatoes + 8 ounces Full Red

Thanks!

Roy




Carl - As Craig mentioned it's not available on a retail level, I bought mine at Restaurant depot. I've also purchased Saporito extra heavy which I think may be a bit better than Full Red. I'm not sure if it's much better than straight crushed tomatoes, but I think it does have more depth in flavor than some crushed tomatoes which are usually more bright.



Offline rparker

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #269 on: June 17, 2016, 09:02:13 AM »
Hi Roy, I'm sorry I didn't see this in time but answer A is correct. The purpose of the water is to thin down the extra heavy puree of the full-reds to a crushed tomato-like consistency.  I'm glad you liked the sauce! Thank you for trying it out, open to constructive criticisms.

A buddy of mine who used to make pizza as a kid swears by straight Romano. I've been using a Parm/Romano blend but never straight Romano. I'll have to try that. Pecorino is too fancy for my pizza  :-D

Carl - As Craig mentioned it's not available on a retail level, I bought mine at Restaurant depot. I've also purchased Saporito extra heavy which I think may be a bit better than Full Red. I'm not sure if it's much better than straight crushed tomatoes, but I think it does have more depth in flavor than some crushed tomatoes which are usually more bright.
I really dig the Romano. The strong ones in particular. Much nom nom. I get away with Boar's Head for the family's palate just fine. I go many months sometimes using that on sauce exclusively.

The Mutti's tomatoes have standing water. They need to be strained or well partially emulsified to get rid of the standing water thing. the reward is a bright, light tomato taste. Soooo, for today, I just mixed up a batch of Full Red and Mutti's combination. No emulsifying. I'm going to eye ball the thickness(viscosity?) as I'm sure I will still need to add a touch of water. It's all mixed except the water.

I imagine when it's done and baked that the Full Red will take over and I may not gain anything but some texture.

Carl - Yesterday, I was reminded a little bit of Centos Crushed after I mixed the water into the Full Red. IIRC, no standing water in Centos. I'm betting Josh's recipe and the Centos will get along great. Those are available retail down here. Hopefully up there, too.

Roy

Offline JD

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #270 on: June 17, 2016, 03:27:26 PM »
I really dig the Romano. The strong ones in particular. Much nom nom. I get away with Boar's Head for the family's palate just fine. I go many months sometimes using that on sauce exclusively.

The Mutti's tomatoes have standing water. They need to be strained or well partially emulsified to get rid of the standing water thing. the reward is a bright, light tomato taste. Soooo, for today, I just mixed up a batch of Full Red and Mutti's combination. No emulsifying. I'm going to eye ball the thickness(viscosity?) as I'm sure I will still need to add a touch of water. It's all mixed except the water.

I imagine when it's done and baked that the Full Red will take over and I may not gain anything but some texture.

Carl - Yesterday, I was reminded a little bit of Centos Crushed after I mixed the water into the Full Red. IIRC, no standing water in Centos. I'm betting Josh's recipe and the Centos will get along great. Those are available retail down here. Hopefully up there, too.

Roy

Looking forward to hearing about your results with mixing full red and Mutti. I've done a 50/50 mix with Full red and 7-11, but not with my new recipe. I can't really say if it was better or worse, but by the way you describe Mutti's it sounds like a great match. I probably wouldn't even decant the extra water in the mutti's seeing how thick full red is.

Offline rparker

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #271 on: June 21, 2016, 09:22:40 AM »
Looking forward to hearing about your results with mixing full red and Mutti. I've done a 50/50 mix with Full red and 7-11, but not with my new recipe. I can't really say if it was better or worse, but by the way you describe Mutti's it sounds like a great match. I probably wouldn't even decant the extra water in the mutti's seeing how thick full red is.
Apologies for the delay in responding. Time has a way of flying.....

I baked 2 pies each over the end of last week and the weekend. For the pies using Mutti's, one pie had about 10% added water and the other pie had no water. Both the non-mutti's mixed in pies were the same as your recipe.

The biggest change was texture. The Mutti's / Full Red mix seemed to give the sauce layer a little body. Depth, perhaps. The flavor was a little bit different, but not better or worse. The salt did not pop through as much with the Mutti's mixed in pies. However, the second one did allow me the opportunity to add some pecorino directly on top of the sauce without getting too salty.

I've just mixed a batch using only Mutti's. I emulsified it as I usually do. (I reserve about 2-4 tbls of tomato pulp, then gently stir back in at the end for a little bit of texture. ) I'm not sure what to expect. It's certainly lighter in color than using the Full Red.

Any closer to figuring out what that missing ingredient or element is? I'm thinking of adding about 1/8th filet of the champ's secret ingredient. (here, fishy fishy fishy) Might have to back off the salt a bit to make room for it. 

Offline rparker

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #272 on: June 21, 2016, 12:38:31 PM »
Josh, just a quick follow-up on the use of Mutti's. I mixed your recipe using a can of emulsified Mutti's crushed tomatoes. Man, oh man, was this ever good. It is different with Mutti's than using Full Red, but I can't quantify why/how.

Anyone watching, I highly suggest to try Josh's sauce recipe out in it's entirety. The balance is right on.  8) 8) :chef: :chef:



Offline JD

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #273 on: June 21, 2016, 03:34:51 PM »
Josh, just a quick follow-up on the use of Mutti's. I mixed your recipe using a can of emulsified Mutti's crushed tomatoes. Man, oh man, was this ever good. It is different with Mutti's than using Full Red, but I can't quantify why/how.

Anyone watching, I highly suggest to try Josh's sauce recipe out in it's entirety. The balance is right on.  8) 8) :chef: :chef:

Great Roy, I need to get my hands on some Mutti's. If I can't find them I'll try the recipe with straight 7-11's. Did you do any additions like pepper or Pecorino on this one? Why no pics?  :D

Offline rparker

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Re: JD's NY
« Reply #274 on: June 22, 2016, 04:11:47 PM »
Great Roy, I need to get my hands on some Mutti's. If I can't find them I'll try the recipe with straight 7-11's. Did you do any additions like pepper or Pecorino on this one? Why no pics?  :D
I've done my own with 7-11's and liked 'em. No standing water to manage (strain, whisk, emulsify, etc). A RD trip is forthcoming, so anxious to hear how they do with your recipe.

I've been sooooo lazy with my picture taking as of late. I'll do soon. Still going to play with the cheese timing, though I think it's a great thing in the sauce.

I did a small amount of ground black pepper on the sauce and added some Pecorino on top of the sauce pre-bake in addition to the whole thing post-bake. I reduced the amount I put on the sauce, though. It worked out better than reducing the salt in the sauce to make up the difference due to putting salty cheese in the sauce. I use less pepper than you'd think was needed. Just a touch does it for me. Fine line between just right and way too much.

So much for my less-is-more mantra for NY sauce.  :D