Author Topic: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project  (Read 73872 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #275 on: September 24, 2010, 12:58:03 PM »
Awesome JD.  Here's the honest truth as I see it about pizza.  Even though I'm picky about how my pizzas look, it really doesn't matter what pizzas look like or what we use or how we achieve the end result.  To me, pizza is an experience  we have.  The success we have when we are pizza masters in no way negates the experiences we have with "crap" pizza when we were kids.  If it provokes an positive memorable experience then that's the whole point.

It's awesome that your neighbor came back asking for more pizza.  Only we may nit pick about the minutia, but the neighbor is probably thinking "that's the best d@mn pizza I ever ate!"  Good job, keep it up.   ;D

I REALLY appreciate that story about your neighbor coming back for more.  Someday if he is interested, you should teach him how to make his own pies.  :-D  Boy I sure do wish I had a neighbor that would trade pork and beef sausage for pizza.   :P

Chau


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #276 on: September 25, 2010, 08:58:18 PM »
Okay, so with the new air dam working well, I decide to do a test run with Caputo at higher temps. 
This was an experimental dough made with my new Bosch mixer.

Caputo 100%
Water  63%
Cake Yeast 0.2%
Salt 2.5 %

I had originally planned these for a 12 hour room temp ferment but they only lasted about 7 hours till baked.  I should have even baked them an hour earlier.  It was to be my first high temp bake since the new mods. 

I loaded the first pie a around 600 I think and had the burner on 75% of full throttle.  The bottom didn't char and the top took longer to brown.  I think this one took about 2.5 minute to bake.

2nd pie I decided to load at a hearth temp of around 700 with the burner going full blast.  This pie baked in 1m50s or so and the bottem had a nice char to it.  Next time I may even load the pie at 650F hearth with the burner wide open. 

The crumb was soft but also toughen a bit after it cooled dough.  I can't be sure if it was the new mixer, the relatively lower HR for my environment, or under baking of the crust.  I'll have to do some more experimenting.  But so far this test bake was promising.  I'm moving in the right direction towards making a NP pie in the MBE.

 

Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #277 on: September 26, 2010, 08:01:00 PM »
The second pie down looks just as good as than the one I had at SpaccaNapoli last night.  The only difference is slightly more char and you're there.

Serious. 

Are you still trying to get towards your perfect pie?  I mean, what are you aiming for? 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #278 on: September 26, 2010, 08:32:59 PM »
The second pie down looks just as good as than the one I had at SpaccaNapoli last night.  The only difference is slightly more char and you're there.

Serious. 

Are you still trying to get towards your perfect pie?  I mean, what are you aiming for? 

MC, that is too kind of you.  I think like most active members here, I know good/great pizza when I eat it and have become rather picky about what is good and what is not.   At the moment I am really just having fun exploring how to make the different styles.  I would like to learn as much as I can about pizza making in general while I still have the motivation, time, and income to do so.   

I want to know and develop a decent understanding of what is possible and what is not possible.  I want to do the impossible.  I want to know that I can transform the most basic of ingredients into something that I and the ppl I serve pizza to say "wow, that's good stuff!"  The more time I spend on the forum and making pizza, the wiser I am becoming slowly.  I am beginning to change my mind about a lot of things lately.   

I use to think there was perfection, but am now satisfied with just greatness.  I think our taste can change a lot as we grow too.  I mean I think I know what a perfect Neo-Neapolitan should taste like, but then again that's just my personal taste.  You may disagree with me on what perfect is.  Also I ate a really satisfying chicago deep dish last week.  There's no way to compare the 2 except to say that they are both really enjoyable.  To say one is perfect would discredit the other.  I think we can learn to make "perfect" or really great NY, deep dish, NP pies but not one style is more perfect than the other for me.

I use to to get a bit irked by the elitists that say if you want to make a real NP pie you have to use caputo and it has to be baked in a WFO.  My goal was to see if I couldn't prove them wrong.  What if I could make a perfect pie using AP flour in a home setting?  If not I would at the very least learn the limitations of AP flour and the home oven.

But today, I got to eat some amazing pizza from a WFO.  I even got to try my own dough (caputo vs a blend of AP/pastry), and you wanna know the TRUTH??

The WFO oven, the bosch mixer, and the caputo flour made a HUGE difference!  When I had little hope for my dough (from my past experience with hand kneading, blending flours, and baking pies using the MBE/home oven/primo) I was blown away at my own pizza when these components came together.  It elevated my pizza from a 6 or 7 out of 10 to a 8-9/10.  With the right tools, I believe I can do even better than I have been.  All I have been doing lately is really just getting my feet wet. 

My experience today left a big impression on me...

Chau

« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 08:34:38 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #279 on: October 09, 2010, 09:24:55 PM »
Made some really good NY-elite pies tonight.  Made them with HG bromated flour.   The cake yeast is 2 weeks old and maybe a bit weak.  Didn't quite get the dough to proof up the way I wanted for a 12 hour room temp rise, but they still had  good oven spring.

I figured out a great trick to increase the oven spring in the MBE.  Should work for the LBE as well.  During the first few minutes of baking, I take my metal peel and hold it against the top lid vent.  Blocking the airflow and keeping the heat in the dome.  This produced an appreciable difference in the oven spring.

Made 4 good pies tonight but the last one was the BEST!  One of my all time favorites.   Crunchy/crispy outside and bottom and open airy moist crumb.  It was fantastic.

Here are the first 3 pies.  Last one will get it's own post.  ;D

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #280 on: October 09, 2010, 09:26:15 PM »
Last pie of the night.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #281 on: October 12, 2010, 06:32:45 PM »
Made a few 10 hour caputo pies in the MBE.  Was shooting for a bigger oven spring and I think I got it... :P

What do you guys think about the crumb?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 06:35:57 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #282 on: October 12, 2010, 07:12:29 PM »
Perfection on the crumb. Just spectacular.

John

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #283 on: October 12, 2010, 08:25:53 PM »
Thanks John.  I thought the pies were pretty good.


Offline gtsum2

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #284 on: October 12, 2010, 08:59:39 PM »
I would concur..they look very nice!  What was temp and how long did you cook them for?  I am going to order a bag of Caputo here this week..which one do you use Chau...the Red or Blue bag??

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #285 on: October 12, 2010, 09:07:39 PM »
Thx Shaun, glad you guys appreciate a good crumb.  :-D

I use the blue bag (pizzeria).  The red bag is Chef's flour that can also be used for pizza making.  This batch was actually 2/3 blue bag and 1/3 red bag.  That's the SECRET ratio.   :-D  Just kidding.  I had a bit of the red bag left over so I threw it in. 

Just be aware though, that if you like a "crunchy" rim, caputo may give you a bit less crunch.  It'll still crisp, but BF or HG flour will give you more crunch.  You can do this crumb with the HG flour you have right now.  Look at the crumb in reply #280.

Chau

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #286 on: October 12, 2010, 09:13:57 PM »
Oh whoops, I forgot to tell you the temp.  I believe these were loaded at a hearth temp of 600F and baked for about close to 3 min.   As always, I don't know the true temp of the MBE.  Depending where you measure on the hearth you can easily get varying temps.   I'm working on a hinged cover for the front lid vent.  Stay tune...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 09:24:15 PM by Jackie Tran »

buceriasdon

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #287 on: October 13, 2010, 08:52:54 AM »
Chau, I tried some cover ideas for the vent but my burner then starves for oxygen but I have only the front vent. Good luck

Don

Oh whoops, I forgot to tell you the temp.  I believe these were loaded at a hearth temp of 600F and baked for about close to 3 min.   As always, I don't know the true temp of the MBE.  Depending where you measure on the hearth you can easily get varying temps.   I'm working on a hinged cover for the front lid vent.  Stay tune...

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #288 on: October 13, 2010, 09:51:58 AM »
Chau, I tried some cover ideas for the vent but my burner then starves for oxygen but I have only the front vent. Good luck

Don


Thanks Don, with some initial test yesterday I noticed the same thing.  Heat up time is much slower, BUT here's what I'm thinking.   A hinged lid.   Open for quick (normal) heat up times and closed only for the first 1-2 minutes while the pie is in.  This maybe a fluke, but I've been noticing bigger oven spring with this method.   It makes sense b/c that trapped heat creates an environment similar to a WFO.  The surrounding heat gives the lift, then open the vent lid and allow airflow again to char the rim to finish the pie. 

I'm also toying with the idea of a perforated lid cover.  So that during the first 1-2 minutes of the bake, the vent hole isn't completely shut off.  The airflow would just be decrease enough to trap the hot air in the lid and just long enough for initial oven spring.  After the rim is set, the vent lid is lowered for normal MBE/LBE baking.

Chau
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 09:56:11 AM by Jackie Tran »

PaulsPizza

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #289 on: October 13, 2010, 09:57:55 AM »
Chau, those pies look very very tasty!! awesome work as usual :chef:
I think I may mix up some dough tonight now, you have made me hungry!

Online norma427

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #290 on: October 13, 2010, 10:25:54 AM »
Chau,

Your recent pies look delicious.   ;D  Your crumb looks fantastic!  :chef:

Norma

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #291 on: October 13, 2010, 10:50:47 AM »
Thanks Paul & Norma.   Paul I would love to see some of your recent work. ;)


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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #292 on: October 13, 2010, 11:44:08 AM »
Thanks Paul & Norma.   Paul I would love to see some of your recent work. ;)


Chau, I am making pizza on Monday so I will dust the camera off and take some pics for you.
I have been so busy lately, sorry for the lack of pics.
When are you next making pizza?
Paul

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #293 on: October 13, 2010, 11:58:03 AM »
A few days from now, and ill try to do the same crumb structure with AP flour.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #294 on: October 13, 2010, 09:22:48 PM »
Got the top vent hinged cover done tonight.    Confident it will work well but need to do further testing.   Initial test from using the peel to cover the vent has shown some postive results.  Won't get to test it out for a few days though.

Eventhough it looks like it covers the vent fully, there is still a bit of a gap at the top.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 09:58:23 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #295 on: October 14, 2010, 12:25:50 AM »
chau all you need now is fluxcore and rust and you have another c0mpl3x fabrication thread!
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buceriasdon

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #296 on: October 14, 2010, 08:13:07 AM »
Chau, I am most interested in your results. I too have pondered this same modification to the front vent. With my LBE setup I can see my flame go down when I have placed a curved piece of metal over the vent, which for me defeats the purpose of not losing heat. Good luck. I even thought about having a rectangular vent fabricated that could be pop riveted in the opening and extends out a few inches.
Don

Got the top vent hinged cover done tonight.    Confident it will work well but need to do further testing.   Initial test from using the peel to cover the vent has shown some postive results.  Won't get to test it out for a few days though.

Eventhough it looks like it covers the vent fully, there is still a bit of a gap at the top.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #297 on: October 14, 2010, 10:32:22 AM »
...   Confident it will work well but need to do further testing....

For what its worth, these are my thoughts on your MBE.  Your walking on a slippery slope.  A black egg  with no vents gives the heat no place to go but out the bottom.  A poorly designed black egg without channeling the heat to the rear, up over the stone, and out the front, gives you a charred bottom pizza with no top heat browning.  But in your situation, with the new door on the front, I believe that the only way it will work the way you want it to is if the 'bit of gap at the top' (front vent) is large enough to continue to let enough air flow out the front.  I can't wait to see your results.
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #298 on: October 14, 2010, 10:38:38 AM »
Woops, forgot to say that the pizza looks very good as usual.  What is your favorite suggested "recipe" for using HG flour?  I now have a 25# bag of Kyrol and some cake yeast and I wanted a recipe for when the 10stone gets put back together.  Thanks Chau.
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #299 on: October 14, 2010, 11:16:54 AM »
chau all you need now is fluxcore and rust and you have another c0mpl3x fabrication thread!

Absolutely Jon.  :D  I've been really enjoying the pies that have been coming out of the MBE lately for many reasons.  It's much more of a challenge to make a great product with a less than ideal setup/conditions.  Lots of manipulations have to be made which requires an understanding of what one is doing. 

I too have pondered this same modification to the front vent. With my LBE setup I can see my flame go down when I have placed a curved piece of metal over the vent.

Don & JD thanks for the feedback.  Though I didn't make a post of it, I did do the exact same test with a curved piece of sheet metal covering the lid vent opening completely .  I too, noted the same detrimental effect.   Heat up times were maybe tripled from the poor airflow.  So I quickly removed the strip and went back to blocking some of the airflow with the metal peel.  In the few times I've done this I did note an increase in ovenspring in a bigger portion of the rim.

This actually make sense especially given the newer mods done lately.  With my current set up, all the airflow is direct to the back and over the pie out the front vent.  The airflow is so forceful that it is bypassing the sides of the pie (to a certain extent) and I'm only getting great spring in the back.  If I turn the pie 180' after 30sec, I may get some additional spring to the front of the pie(now towards the back) but it's not great.  So the result is one portion of the rim has great ovenspring and the rest of the rim (60%) has mediocre rise. 

You can see this effect in some of my previous pies like the one in reply #271.  It could be the result of uneven stretching of the skin, but it's more likely due to the uneven heat distribution.

BUT with blocking the vent using the flat edge of the peel, I was able to successfully slow down the airflow while still preserving the majority of it.  As a result, in 4-5 pies made this way,  I noted a bigger portion of the rim getting great rise.  Thus leading to the current lid vent mod. 

I absolutely agree JD.  I can't block off the vent completely as noted in reply #294.  I have to preserve a % of the airflow for it to work.  How much? Dunno yet.  A few test should show me how much venting is ideal.   Again, my goal is to only block about maybe 60% of the airflow just to preserve more heat in the dome.  Theoretically this will create more top heat to aid in ovenspring across more of the rim and not just the back. 

I have some AP doughs fermenting right now.  If I can get off work early enough tonight, I'll run the test.  I'll do 1 pie with using the new mod and one with to see if there is indeed a difference. 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 11:18:53 AM by Jackie Tran »