Author Topic: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project  (Read 70951 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2010, 01:37:29 AM »
Are you referring to the high density foil?  I only lined the inside after reading about it in the LBE thread.  I've notice that the foil in the bottom half of the grill is disintigrating only after 2 firings  Once it burns through I won't be replacing it.  The top foil is intact.   The plate in the dome has been through 1 hi temp firing and has held up ok. 

I plan on taking this to about 700F hearth temp max.  Any higher than that and the bottom may burn quicker than the rim can brown.  But with the new set up, It may be a chore to get it there.  We'll see.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 01:39:04 AM by Tranman »


scott123

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2010, 01:42:27 AM »
No, foil seems pretty common in these types of setups. I'm referring to the T Fal.

brayshaw

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2010, 04:29:14 AM »
Tran, that is an amazing little oven you have made there, can't wait to see the pictures of the pizzas!

Paul

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2010, 06:14:52 AM »
No, foil seems pretty common in these types of setups. I'm referring to the T Fal.

hmmm, yikes....I have a SS pan as well but the handle won't be easy to take off.  I'd have to cut it off.  I think I may just take this one for a test drive and hope for the best.  It is sitting on the round firebrick piece so hopefully that will take the brunt of the heat. 

Paul, me too.  I hope it works.  :-\

brayshaw

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2010, 06:21:14 AM »
Tran, your wife must love you...first you break her table and then you 'adjust' the pots and pans!  :-D
I think a nice big bunch of flowers will be needed very soon! haha

Paul

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2010, 07:07:37 AM »
Tran, your wife must love you...first you break her table and then you 'adjust' the pots and pans!  :-D
I think a nice big bunch of flowers will be needed very soon! haha

Paul

You're a smart man, I do need to do that  :D  She just bought me a set of Rachel Ray pots and pans not long ago, so this old one can be sacrificed.  I at least told her about it beforehand instead of just taking it.   I was going to visit a Thrift store to buy a cheap used one but didn't have time so decided to look around the house. 

Paul looking forward to seeing more of your videos. 

Offline Ronzo

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2010, 09:39:50 AM »
that non-stick coating on the pan is going to bubble and flake in that high heat. Hope it doesn't get carried by convection onto any of the pies.
Fuggheddabowdit!

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2010, 09:44:10 AM »
Ron I was just thinking that.  I'm glad you mentioned it.  I was planning on taking a blowtorch to it or fire it by itself to see if I can remove that and if the pan will take the heat and not melt creating a big mess. 

As is the bottom HD aluminum foil is already flaking.  I wonder if I shouldn't just remove it?  I may have developed a little dementia/alzheimers by now from the foil and fumes but if so how can one really tell?  ???

Offline Ronzo

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2010, 09:46:13 AM »
I'd remove it. I personally wouldn't let that thing anywhere near my food in that high heat.
Fuggheddabowdit!

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Offline Tampa

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2010, 11:16:14 AM »
Tranman, I believe Ronzo is right.  I don't have time to research it but I believe teflon puts out a harmful-to-humans gas when burned and the gas point is under 800F, I believe.  I've got to run.  Will comment later.
Dave


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2010, 11:47:58 AM »
Tranman, I believe Ronzo is right.  I don't have time to research it but I believe teflon puts out a harmful-to-humans gas when burned and the gas point is under 800F, I believe.  I've got to run.  Will comment later.
Dave



I'll be sure to burn it all off and go over with a metal scouring pad to make sure it's all gone before I bake with it.   I'll also wear a protective breathing mask so I don't breathe in any of the fumes.  Unless it's somehow baked into the metal, I can always go with a different non teflon pan. 

Update:  I did a quick google search on teflon and it does emit toxic fumes if burned at high temps 700+.  I'm not even sure I want to try to burn it off as I don't want a chance to breathe any of the fumes myself.  What if I don't get it all off?
It may look like it's off but what if there are some microscopic tracings of it. 

It's better to be safe than sorry, so I will try to find another pan that is non teflon coated.  Would be nice to find a SS pan but most of those also have SS handles welded on so I may have to do some cutting. 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 12:21:56 PM by Tranman »

brayshaw

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2010, 12:22:31 PM »
Be safe and go with a different pan mate.

Paul

Offline Ronzo

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2010, 01:15:59 PM »
Tranman,

if you are looking for a pan that will stand up to the heat, buy an old rusted out cast iron one off craigslist or at a swap meet or something.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2010, 01:53:26 PM »
Excellent suggestion Ron. Thanks for raising the red flag. 

scott123

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2010, 04:06:53 PM »
Coarse sandpaper will remove teflon from aluminum with very little effort.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2010, 04:22:27 PM »
I just priced a new 10.25" CI skillet at $20. I just feel weird about taking a hack saw to the handle of a new skillet and subjecting it to hi temps.  Almost seems wrong in a way. :'(

Scott I may give the sandpaper a try and see how I feel. I like that idea better than torching it off.  If it works well, I'll still look for a CI skillet at yard sales and what not.

Offline Ronzo

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2010, 04:56:25 PM »
I just priced a new 10.25" CI skillet at $20. I just feel weird about taking a hack saw to the handle of a new skillet and subjecting it to hi temps.  Almost seems wrong in a way. :'(
I couldn't do it. I'd cry trying.

I'd go the "rusty old no longer useful for cooking" route.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2010, 05:07:56 PM »
Ron I have pies to bake tonight!  ;)BUT I don't want them to be my last pies either.  :o

I'll swing by a goodwill on the way home from work and see what they have. 

Offline Ronzo

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2010, 05:19:37 PM »
Maybe even a rusty old cast iron comal (round tortilla griddle) instead of a pan.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
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Offline Tampa

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2010, 05:22:07 PM »
I do have a little feedback on the design.

Part of the overall approach, IMO, should be managing the hot airflow through the Egg.  With that high BTU burner below acting like a jet engine, the flow has to go somewhere.  If the slot cutout isn't large enough, along with the top vent (now plugged) then the jetstream has to go somewhere, probably back out the bottom (wasted).  Hot air compresses a little bit, but when you have a constant flow like a jet, it will generally vent wherever is the easiest.  Ideally, you want that flow to impinge on the underside of the pizza stone, then U turn, pass over the top of the pie and and exit the slot.

You have so much heat there, that once things warm up and reach steady state, there should be little temperature drop in the flow and the top of the pie would cook as fast as the bottom.

With that in mind, the upper plate mostly serves to keep the hot air flow over the pie.  It doesn't matter much the thermal mass, just that the flow is right.

To me the underside pan and stones are a bit of a mystery.  The hot air is forced around the pan then expected to turn around and heat the stones again?  Before I got to crazy with airflow, I'd just try some HD foil under the cooking stone (no pans, no stones).  If the EggHeads have experience with pan and stones, then I would defer to their real-world experience.

Dave


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2010, 09:34:48 PM »
Dave, thank you for your feedback.  It's great to have your feedback as the science of these things tend to escape me sometimes. 

I have tried just to heat the MBE with the hearth stones alone and no diffuser pan and the hearth gets too hot.  The idea is to get the air above hotter than the stone.  To get the air super hot, I have to run the burner at a high rate which results in too high of temps for the hearth.  ideally I would like to start out with a hearth temp of 700F but want the air above around 800F?

Your idea of putting a HD foil under the stones may not work b/c with direct heat on the HD foil, the foil just about evaporates.  Only after 2 firings, the foil on the side walls of the egg are breaking up and the heat may not be as direct  in those spots.   What I have found lately is an 11" aluminum disk that I will triple wrap with HD foil and place under the hearth stones directly.  It may be enough of a heat diffuser to work (without the addition of a thicker diffuser pan underneath).

If this experiment fails,  I can always go back and add the diffuser pan.  The pan maybe a needed addition for the bigger eggs and not for the mini.  I measured the height from the burner to the top grate (bottom of the hearth) and it's just shy of 7".  Anyways I'll do a test bake late tonight and have the results up by tomorrow. 

I did stop by Goodwill on the way home and was able to find a 10" SS pan for $4.  I should be able to cut the handle off with my rotozip if I need the pan difusser after all. 

Offline Tampa

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2010, 08:29:29 AM »
I may be more science-trained than some on this forum, but real-world results trump science in my mind, especially when it comes to thermodynamics and heat transfer.  I have not kept up with the latest EggHead results, and should, but I suggest you keep a closer eye on their progress over my ďscienceĒ.

In some ways, itís great that the HD foil is melting.  The places of melt will tell you where the hot spots are, and give some insight into airflow.  Iíd get one of those thin steel cookie sheets, or some extremely thin sheet steel, and put that under the stone.  The melting point of steel is entirely different from aluminum, and although the steel might rust over time, it will serve as a test.  If you are gamey, pick up one of those craigs-list discarded stainless grills, and cut off a section of stainless using tin snips.  There are differences in stainless (303 vs. 304, etc.) but ignoring that, stainless should be a reliable barrier and comparable in purpose to HD foil.

What Iím suggesting is a static/non-moving air gap between the impinging flame an the stone.  Air, even hot, is a great insulator.  The small holes in the stone are enough as long as the stone isnít directly in the flame.

The stainless steel pan you bought is great, but Iím still a fan of first putting a thin metal sheet directly under the stone, and if that doesnít work, later try the bucket for lava rocks.  I see the bucket approach as adding a lot of potentially unnecessary thermal mass to the system causing longer warm-up times and possibly unproductive airflow.  If one layer of steel didnít keep the stone temp low enough, Iíd try two layers of steel, separated by either metal lath or sand pebbles Ė something to add a little air-gap insulation.

Most important, do what works for you.  Feel free to ignore these suggestions.  The quest is tasty pizza, after all.

Dave

Offline Ronzo

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2010, 10:45:44 AM »
Tampa, that sounds like good advice to me.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2010, 11:09:46 AM »
I probably would have sprinkled a few acorns around the table and blamed it on squirrels  ;D

Seriously, though, that's a bummer.  I don't think there's anything more thermally fragile than glass.

Not sure how I missed this earlier, but that's pretty funny Scott.  :-D

Well I took the MBE out for spin last night and the force was not with me.  I had 2 disasters, one of which was totally avoidable so I'll post about so that others might avoid my folly. 

First attempt was the metal aluminum disk tripled wrapped in HD foil under the stone.  For some odd reason I didn't see this one coming.  15 min after firing the MBE up, I notice a pool of silvery liquid under my burner.  Hmmm, I wonder what that could be?   Turned the burner off, unloaded everything and this is what I found. 

Yupp, the friggin disk got smoked!  Some of the aluminum had dripped into the burner head.  I tried to fire it up to hopefully soften it up to remove but to no avail.  With the aluminum plug in place, 90% of the burner holes still work.  I decided it wasn't a big deal as I can just turn that not burning side towards the front where the vent is. 


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2010, 11:19:29 AM »
Ok so I decided to go with plan B.  Took the hot stones off carefully and placed them on a rack on the ground avoiding the remaining glass table top.  See I'm a fast learner!

I decided to give the steel pan a shot.  Out came the rotozip and lobbed off the handle in just a minute or 2.  Loaded the small round firebrick, steel pan, and a few ceramic briquets into the perimeter of the pan.
Fired it back up and started  taking note of the temps. 

The pan is 10 1/4" and the hearth is 12".  The pan sits directly under the hearth.  I figured with would help direct the heat more to the perimeter of the hearth rather than the middle itself. 

Checked temps at 10 min and 20 min.  At 20 min, got an average reading of about 650F.  Perfect.  Nice low temp to start with for a trial bake.  Stretched the dough quickly and loaded within a few mins.  Didn't recheck temps but I know it wasn't above 700.   Loaded the pie and within 30 seconds I notice a slight faint aroma of burnt crust.  I'm well familiar with this scent as I have burnt many pies.

Lifted the lid and the bottom was burnt and the back edge was burnt.  I decided to put the pie back since it wasn't salvageable to play around with browning the rest of the rim.  Here's the pie.



 

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