Author Topic: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project  (Read 57697 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #320 on: October 19, 2010, 06:48:13 PM »
These both were very difficult to stretch, Ill let them sit out an additional hour tonight before I put the heat to them.


JD - I'm not surprise to hear that at all.  Were these cold fermented by any chance.   I didn't want to mention this before but I thought the crumb looked like it had too much gluten developement.  Either from slightly too much kneading or too many stretch and folds.  Remember...depending on other factors like hydration ratio and strength of flour, a few minutes extra kneading can be the difference of just right and a little too much.  A few extra folds can be the difference of just right and a little too much.   If too much, then the crumb can get leathery or dry especially after cooling down.  If just a bit too much than that can equate into extra chew and a perception of being a bit more bready compared to what the crumb could have been if that makes sense.   I didn't mention it b/c  I can't pinpoint where it came from other than I recognize the crumb to be such since I have made many of these.  Again, not anything against your effort b/c I recognize how hard it can be.  And besides your neighbor loved it so don't forget that.  I'm just pushing you beyond towards perfection/excellence.   Although I myself am not there yet...

Here is one extreme example but you get the idea.

Reply #26
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11654.60.html


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #321 on: October 19, 2010, 07:01:23 PM »
After posting, I recalled that I had discussed the effects of oil in dough, specifically in the Lehmann NY style dough, at Reply 130 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8341.msg75843.html#msg75843.

Peter

Offline ponzu

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #322 on: October 19, 2010, 08:44:10 PM »
Pete-zza,

 I think that 1% oil has a dramatic effect on dough structure.  When I mix the "NASA" dough with 1% oil there is considerably more extensibility, strength and thus windowpaning and less webbing after a 20 minute rest post mixing.

The difference is more subtle after balling and proofing however.

As always my observations are based on a much smaller sample size than yours Peter, so your experience trumps mine. 

Just my 2 cents for what its worth.  Not much these days :-D.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #323 on: October 19, 2010, 09:04:25 PM »
Alexi,

I was directing my comments to the tenderness issue with 1% oil. There are other effects on a dough, some of which are structural, as both you and Chau noted. I will also sometimes suggest that members delete the oil if they want a somewhat dryer crust that is along the lines of an "elite" style pizza made from a dough that includes only flour, water, yeast and salt.

Out of curiosity, I ran Jet_deck's recipe as best I could divine it from what he said through the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, and came up with the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (72%):
CY (0.44%):
Salt (2.5%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (175.94%):
Single Ball:
454.7 g  |  16.04 oz | 1 lbs
327.38 g  |  11.55 oz | 0.72 lbs
2 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs |
11.37 g | 0.4 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.04 tsp | 0.68 tbsp
4.55 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
800 g | 28.22 oz | 1.76 lbs | TF = N/A
200 g | 7.05 oz | 0.44 lbs
Note: For four 200-gram dough balls; no bowl residue compensation

As can be seen from the above, assuming it is correct, the oil comes to about one teaspoon for about a pound of flour or roughly 28 ounces of dough. Query: Is that enough to produce tenderness in the finished crust? I personally don't use hydrations of around 72% because doughs at that level do not do well in my standard unmodified home oven. So, I have little experience with the effects of small amounts of oil in very high hydration doughs.

Peter

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #324 on: October 20, 2010, 01:14:50 AM »
Peter, Chau, et. all
As always Peter is spot on with the recipe.  I used a small fudge factor, when talking about JT's recipe, to avoid being overly descript about exact ingredient weights.  I took this liberty to not hijack the thread (even more than I already have).  The exact weights are as follows. HG flour (100%) 500g, Water (72%) 360g, Salt (2.5%) 12.5g, CY(.4%) 2g, oil(1%) 5g.

My newbie decision to quadruple the cake yeast, resulted in a blown dough tonight. More specifically, the two remaining dough balls with no oil were overly flat and wet.  The one remaining recipe correct dough ball with oil still looks pretty good. Probably the 10 hours in the garage at 80* that did the dough in.  Blown tonight, overfermented last night when cooked.  Result = none.  No one complained tonight with three pieces going out as a protein supplement to supper.

The end result of the blown dough will be found shortly at the October Monthy Challenge post :
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #325 on: October 20, 2010, 07:52:40 AM »
No worries about hijacking.  This is a good discussion and I appreciate this more than no discussion.

 :-D at you for quadrupling the yeast and a 10 hour garage ferment.

Chau

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #326 on: October 20, 2010, 10:58:44 AM »
Jet_deck,

I am not surprised that your dough blew. At 0.4% cake yeast, that is equivalent to about 1.2% IDY. That is an amount that would be used to make an emergency dough at normal room temperature to be used to make pizzas within about a couple of hours. But lessons like this are good to experience since you won't use 0.4% cake yeast again for a 10-hour, 80 degrees F room temperature ferment  ;D.

Peter

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #327 on: October 24, 2010, 07:56:20 PM »
Polar opposite pies....

Tonight I made 2 experimental pies.   This is a blend of 00 and HG flour in search of something inspiring.

Cold fermented for a day and a half.   In search of an open airy crumb with a cold fermented dough which has been impossible for me up until tonight.  This only the 2nd time i've gotten a good crumb structure with a cold fermented dough. I hope there will be many more.

1st pie was a total bust.  Didn't have the stone hot enough.  Went to turn it and the pie stuck.  had to get the welding gloves to rotate the stone (a first for me)!  Pie is not attractive at all and tasted below mediocre.  No pic for the the first pie.

2nd pie (pic below), hearth temps increased.   Turned out an excellent NP style pie.  The best I have made in this category.  If I could imagine what a good NP pie should taste like, this would be it.

Light, airy rim (in most parts  :-D).  Taste and texture was just right.   Home made sauce, bufala mozz sprinkled with a blend of parm/romano.   Wow!!  This pie gives me hope.

Chau



« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 10:51:18 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Bobino414

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #328 on: October 24, 2010, 08:46:16 PM »

Chau

Fine looking pies.  You should be proud of your work. The crumb looks light, airy, and "moist."  Was there any crispiness?   As these were experimental pies, what did you change?  Give us the details.

Bob

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #329 on: October 24, 2010, 11:55:59 PM »
Thanks Bob.  This was 2/3 00 1/3 HG.  10% ischia w/ a pinch of IDY.  68% HR bulk 3h CF ~38h, then proofed 4h at 75f.
Minimally kneaded and was very supple & opened easily.   The parts that were experimental and new is that 1) I covered the balls in oil prior to CF'ing and 2) I had mix a bit of HG flour into it to get a bit more crunch to the rim and I think I did get that, but it was just a slight crisp.  Wasn't actually crunchy but slightly crisp.   It was just very satisfying to eat and gave me the idea that I was eating something that came out of a WFO and that was artisanal in character.   The crust had flavor but no notes of sourness at all.  Just a mild flavor characterisitic to ischia. 

The pie was not perfectly round and not charred evenly all around.  A few burnt spots here and there which actually added to it's artisanal feel & character.   It had a very similar texture to the ultra light HG pie I posted about back in reply #125 except that pie was all HG and crispier on bottom and in the rim.  I do remember tasting some smokiness to the crust.  I think b/c the charred spots were so airy, the taste of char and airy rim may have given the rim that slight smokey taste.  ???

I don't know, I can't really describe it well.  It's just one of moments when you eat a slice and the light bulb comes on inside your head and you start taking bigger bites and eating faster.  :-D  Using bufala and the parm/romano mix might have made a difference to the pie as well.  After eating so many of my own pies, I'm rarely actually impress with my own stuff anymore.

I mixed up another batch tonight and made some minor changes.  I hope to get some similar bakes in a few days. 

Chau
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 08:31:34 AM by Jackie Tran »


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #330 on: November 02, 2010, 09:43:29 PM »
made 4 good pies tonight using a 16 hour cold fermented dough.   I posted these in a different thread...
reply #37 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12140.20.html#lastPost

Thought I would post this here to show folks what is possible in the MBE. 

All pies were pretty darn good. 

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #331 on: November 03, 2010, 09:55:08 AM »
The MBE is putting out some killer pizza fur shur!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 10:00:53 AM by Jet_deck »
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #332 on: November 22, 2010, 12:31:57 AM »
Thanks JD.   I finally moved the MBE into the garage today so I can continue baking as winter approaches.   Last time I did a bake at night when the temps were down, I noted the preheat times taking longer. 

Made some really good pies tonight.


Offline Jet_deck

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #333 on: November 22, 2010, 10:11:04 AM »
JT don't forget to leave the garage door cracked a bit, especially considering the time for the preheat.  I would hate for you to be a statistic this holiday season.  CARBON MONOXIDE KILLS.    :chef:  Related limerick:

"Little johnny was a smart little boy, but little johnny is no more.  For what he thought was H20 was H2SO4"
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #334 on: December 05, 2010, 02:14:39 PM »
Yesterday's lunch.   Inspired by the latest talk of NH/coal style pies (thx Scott r, John, & Matthew),  I decided to stretched the bake out to around 3.5m - 4m.   The results were really good.  I have done these types of pies before BUT have settled on them as my favorite.  My absolute favorite pies are a NY elite type crust, topped with a fresh tomato sauce & fresh cheese as is used in NP pies.  The main difference b/t these and most of my other pies is the bake time.  These were around 3.5-4m compared to the others at around 2.5m with higher temps. 

These were 50/50 HG/00 blend, no oil or sugar.   IDY and room temp ferment around 12h.   Next up, I will do a 75/25 (either HG/00 or vice versa) and a 100% 00 baked for ~ 4 mins to see what I get.  These are the type of pies I would serve if I were to own a pizzeria.

Chau
 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 02:18:06 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline norma427

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #335 on: December 05, 2010, 02:39:08 PM »
Chau,

You really make me smile!  ;D  The crumb and pizza look delicious.  :)

Norma
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #336 on: December 12, 2010, 09:07:46 PM »
Chau,

You really make me smile!  ;D  The crumb and pizza look delicious.  :)

Norma

Thanks Norma.  I hope to keep you smiling.   Here is the same 50/50 blend again with 1% sugar added for giggles.   This time I went with 0.05% IDY and these were fermented at room temps for close to 22h.  The dough was hand mixed, rested 30m, did a few folds, rested another 10 min, a few more folds, bulked 16h, lightly balled, and proofed ~5.5h.   

This workflow was adapted and inspired by Roberto's dough video and Norma's pictures of Roberto's dough.
Thank you Roberto and Norma.

220gm doughballs stretched out to 11".  A rim was left after opening and the edge pulled/extended prior to baking.  First pie had buffala and the 2nd one fior di latte with roasted green chile. 

Chau

« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 09:33:08 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #337 on: December 12, 2010, 09:09:58 PM »
Here are some crumb shots from these pies.

Offline gtsum2

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #338 on: December 12, 2010, 09:20:37 PM »
I bow down to that pie Chau! :chef: :chef:  Wonderful looking pie!  What were your bake times and temp on the MBE?  Also, what HR was that?  Mine are getting closer to that, but I still have a ways to go..I am going to try a long room ferment with lower IDY %'s this week.  Nicely done sir!

Shaun

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #339 on: December 12, 2010, 09:31:37 PM »
Thanks Shaun.  I was just coming back to put that bit of info in as I forgot to mention it.  This was ~68% HR.  Lately I have been approximating at least a 4-5% HR difference for my particulary climate versus a relatively humid climate at sea level.   For those who live at sea level and want to do what  I do, I would cut the HR by about 4% and see if that is manageable. 

I didn't time this bake but the hearth temp was around 600F and typically that is a bout a 2.5m bake.  I like the pies better when they bake for closer to 3.5-4m.  The sugar in the formulation cause permature browning  :-D...which is not ideal for baking pizza.  I just threw it in there for giggles.  I'll be taking it out next time.

Shaun - what is this I'm hearing?  You are getting closer? I'm not sure I can improve my pies much more.   :-D  I'm glad you are making improvements.  Are you still thinking about getting a WFO?

Chau


 

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