Author Topic: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?  (Read 35542 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #100 on: July 08, 2010, 08:02:06 PM »
I decided to take a small dough ball out of the freezer today, to try again in the BBQ set-up.  I also  wanted to try the new formula with ď00" flour, KASL, cake yeast and real sea salt. I made a dough ball with the new formula to see if I could measure out a small amount of cake yeast. I let the one dough ball defrost at room temperature.  I mixed the new formula by hand and did the best I could cutting the cake yeast with a X-acto knife.  I also wanted to try out my proofing box to proof the new formula.  I wanted to try and let the dough proof until it doubled in size or at least 3 hrs. at 120 degrees F to see how the crust would bake and also to see what the crust would taste like using the ď00" flour, KASL, natural sea salt, and cake yeast.  I am probably going to experiment with this new formula letting it either proof longer or giving it a room temperature ferment to see how long it takes to double in size.  Those experiments will be in the future.   

Both pies were dressed with my regular tomato sauce, pepperoni, Foremost Brand of blended cheeses.  The only difference was the one pie was topped with opal basil, arugula and the other was topped just topped with sauce, cheese and pepperoni.

I also wanted to test out something I had wondered for awhile.  That was in baking in the BBQ grill set-up with firebricks could get a airy crust, with a lower baking temperature.  It has made me curious for awhile whether it is the dough formula or the higher bake temperatures.  I only baked the first pie at 545 degrees F.  The second pie was baked at 645 degrees F.

For the first pie with the preferment for the Lehmann dough I was ďover the moonĒ.  The second pie was great, too, but in a different way.  The taste of the crust was different and although it looks more bready, was soft and tasty.

Thanks Jackie Tran and Peter for telling me to use a pan, so my bottom doesnít get dark.  It worked wonderful.

Norma
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 08:35:52 AM by norma427 »


Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #101 on: July 08, 2010, 08:03:50 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #102 on: July 08, 2010, 08:05:26 PM »
more pictures

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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #103 on: July 08, 2010, 08:06:34 PM »
more pictures

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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #104 on: July 08, 2010, 08:07:54 PM »
more pictures

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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #105 on: July 08, 2010, 08:09:47 PM »
pictures of pizza with new formula

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #106 on: July 08, 2010, 08:11:15 PM »
last of pictures with new formula

Norma

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #107 on: July 08, 2010, 08:36:10 PM »
Norma,  I'm really liking the pies you've been posting.  I can see a huge difference in the crumb of the rim.  So much more air, lighter looking, not dough or heavy or spongy.  I believe that to be a difference due to baking with your new grill setup.  It's likely has more even heating top and bottom.  That's the thing when you can get better heating by using a different oven.  You can get more oven spring and that makes a huge difference in texture and taste despite using the very same dough formula and baking at the same temps in the home oven.  Not sure if I missed this or not, but did you use the same formula for the 2nd pie?  If so, why do you think it didn't have quite the same spring? Or was the 2nd pie using the 00 flour?

I can see why you were "over the moon" with the first pie.  Look at that airy light crumb.  This is what I would categorize as my perfect pie especially if it had a crispiness to the rim and bottom.   For me, when you get the crust right, you just get it right, you know it and the taste and texture is on an entire different level than other pies you've made. It can also be seen in pictures.   Congrats, you did a great job.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 08:38:57 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #108 on: July 08, 2010, 08:51:00 PM »
Jackie Tran,

Thanks for saying you like the pies I have been posting.  I have seen the same light airy crust at market, with letting my dough thicker, leaving a bigger rim and have even seen the same thing with cheesy breadsticks I make on parchment paper, in an aluminum pan.  That is why I wanted to experiment with a lower bake temperature in the BBQ grill set-up, to see if I could get the same results using a lower bake temperature.  I still am not sure what it is, but think it has to do with the dough formula.  When I baked at hotter temperatures last week I got more browning on the rim and bigger holes, but the pie today was better.  I still have to do some experimenting to try and see what causes that. 

I didnít use the same formula for the second pie.  It was the formula Peter had set-forth for me to try using cake yeast, ď00" flour, KASL, water and natural sea salt.  I have to do more experimenting with that formula to see what happens.

There was a crispness to the rim and bottom.  My daughter helped me eat both pies and said itís time to take the BBQ grill setup on the road.  I cracked up laughing.  :-D  She said this was the best pie I had made so far.

Thanks for your kind comments,

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2010, 02:14:51 PM »
I made two more doughs today to test in the BBQ grill set-up.  Both of them are going to be room fermented doughs.  The first dough I used cake yeast as the leavening agent and the second dough I used the bottom yeast from a bottle of beer Steve (Ev) gave me.  He home brews beer and gave me two bottles to try. I drank the one bottle and left the yeast that had settled on the bottom to try out in this experiment.  I changed the formula instead of using more ď00" flour and KASL, to using Kyrol flour as the main flour, in combination with the ď00" flour.  Both doughs used the same combinations of flours, the same amount of sea salt, and the hydration remained the same.  I used the beer yeast (from the liquid left in the bottom of the bottle) as part of the water hydration percent. Both doughs were made within a half an hour of each other.

The flours were sifted for both of these experimental doughs.  They were both mixed by hand.

I am also going to try out another small  frozen dough ball that is my regular preferment for the Lehmann dough.  I will post when the experiments are baked.

First picture water and beer liquid used to ferment the dough.
Second picture two experimental doughs, with cake yeast dough on left and beer yeast dough on right.
Third picture is bottle of beer, that I didnít drink.

Norma

Offline StrayBullet

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #110 on: July 18, 2010, 04:28:32 PM »
....and the second dough I used the bottom yeast from a bottle of beer Steve (Ev) gave me.  He home brews beer and gave me two bottles to try. I drank the one bottle and left the yeast that had settled on the bottom to try out in this experiment. 

Now that's VERY interesting!!!  I came across a micro-brew a few months back called Chimay and it has what I was calling "sediment" at the bottom.  We used to, way back in my Navy days, shoot the sediment.  And I still love finishing off a bottle like this at the end.  This opens all new avenues; I'm really excited to see how yours turns out!

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #111 on: July 18, 2010, 04:58:58 PM »
Now that's VERY interesting!!!  I came across a micro-brew a few months back called Chimay and it has what I was calling "sediment" at the bottom.  We used to, way back in my Navy days, shoot the sediment.  And I still love finishing off a bottle like this at the end.  This opens all new avenues; I'm really excited to see how yours turns out!

StrayBullet,

Steve (Ev) and I are pizza making buddies.  We both experiment with different things and we always talk about what happened in our experiments.  I knew he home brewed and asked him about home brewing different times.  It seems like home brewing is something like pizza making.  You can get so many results with using different ingredients.  I sure donít know anything about home brewing, but the subject is very interesting to me.  He brought me some hops he grows to taste last Tuesday and I first smelled them.  They smell citrus like to me.  After chewing on a piece of one for a little while, it became very hot.  He laughed and said there are also different kinds of hops, yeast and different ways of brewing. He knows I like to experiment so he gave me the beer and asked me if I would experiment on the sediment at the bottom. He said that is where the yeast would be.  I decided today, since I was going to make a room fermented dough, to also try the same dough, but made with the yeast sediment.  I have no idea what is going to happen with this dough, but it smells very good.  I am excited to see how this experiment works out, too. He told me to be sure the sediment was on the bottom, before drinking the beer.  Maybe after I drink the other beer, I will cold ferment the dough with sediment and make it in a different way, all depending on how this dough works out today. 

Steve (Ev) is building a WFO and is making great progress.  I have only seen the pictures of it, but know he is anxious to try it out.  He even said I will be able to try it out, too when he is finished building it.  I canít wait for that day, because I have never even eaten a pizza make in a WFO. 

I am going to bake in a few hours, so I will post when I am finished.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2010, 09:25:58 PM »
Since it has been hot in our area, and I really donít like to turn the oven on unless I have to. I am using the BBQ grill set-up again today to see what kind of results can be achieved, in 3 different doughs. 

I also picked three kinds of tomatoes from my garden to dress the 3 pies.  They were one kind of San Maranzo, grape tomato, and Amish Paste.  I tasted all of them and the grape tomatoes are the sweetest. I used 6 in 1 sauce and Foremost Blend of cheese also to dress the pies.  I picked some opal and regular basil to top the pies after baking. The first pie I used the grape tomatoes, which was my regular preferment dough.  I decided at the last minute not to use a small dough ball and see what would happened in the bake using a regular sized dough ball, but letting it much thicker. The second pie, which was the cake yeast pie, I used the Amish Paste Tomato.  The third pie which was made from the sediment from the beer, I used the San Mananzo tomato. 

In all, I think all of these pies were good and all the crusts had a different taste.  I would have let the cake yeast dough and the beer sediment dough ferment longer, but it soon was going to get dark outside, so I decided to use them before it got dark. All the doughs were easy to open and didnít show signs of overfermentation.

I baked the preferment for the Lehmann dough first, The cake yeast pie second and the beer sediment pie last.  The pictures are below of how the cake yeast dough looked and also the beer sediment dough on the top and underside of the dough, so it can be seen how the dough looked before the bake.  I donít know why but the cake yeast dough did expand more than the beer sediment dough, but the cake yeast dough didnít have as many bubbles on the bottom.

In conclusion, I still am mystified how dough works and also how different yeasts can produce different results.  The only reason I changed the formula to include Kyrol flour as the main flour, was because in my last bake the crust rim didnít get as brown as I wanted, and I know I donít have a set-up for the BBQ grill to get to much higher temperatures.

I took the temperature of the bottom firebricks and bottom of the steel pan before each bake. As can be seen the temperatures did go up until I opened and dressed each pie.

First pie, bottom firebricks 535 degrees F.  Bottom of steel pan 537 degrees F
Second pie, bottom firebricks 628 degrees F Bottom of steel pan 592 degrees F
Third pie, bottom firebricks 672 degrees F.  Bottom of steel pan 657 degrees F.

Another thing about baking these pies that I am curious about is the first pie, that was left really thick, didnít need a pan put on the bottom after baking for awhile.  It browned okay without using any pan and didnít burn.

This thread needs some pep, so here are two videos from last night, to give this thread some pep.

ďLadiesí NightĒ



For baking music, this is good.

ďOh What A NightĒ



Which pie do other members think would taste best, just by looking at them?

Any ideas or comments are appreciated,

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2010, 09:27:46 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #114 on: July 18, 2010, 09:28:52 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #115 on: July 18, 2010, 09:30:15 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #116 on: July 18, 2010, 09:31:34 PM »
more pictures

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2010, 09:33:05 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #118 on: July 18, 2010, 09:34:22 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #119 on: July 18, 2010, 09:35:21 PM »
last of pictures

Norma

Offline Tampa

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #120 on: July 19, 2010, 08:16:07 AM »
Good stuff Norma.  I love the experimentation and great pictures.  The spotting looks great, especially on that last pie.  I assume you use the upside-down pie pan to finish off the top cooking - a novel idea, at least for me.

Three of us (forum members) in Tampa enjoy your posts.

Dave

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #121 on: July 19, 2010, 09:38:46 AM »
Good stuff Norma.  I love the experimentation and great pictures.  The spotting looks great, especially on that last pie.  I assume you use the upside-down pie pan to finish off the top cooking - a novel idea, at least for me.

Three of us (forum members) in Tampa enjoy your posts.

Dave

Tampa,

Thanks for saying you like the experimentation and pictures.  I also see you and your friends experiment a lot and I enjoy reading your posts, too.  :)  I started using the upside down pan, when Jackie Tran and Peter told me if my bottom gets dark too fast, to put a pan or screen under the pie, so my bottom doesnít burn.  The top cooking in this BBQ grill set-up seems to work okay.  Someday I will do more experimenting with using different set-ups.  The larger preferment for the Lehmann dough ball I used yesterday, almost hit the top of the steel pan, while baking.  I wanted to see what difference there would be in using a smaller dough ball and then letting a larger dough ball thicker in terms of the crust.  I almost got the same results, in terms of oven spring, (from using a small dough ball to compare using a large dough ball) even using lower bake temperatures, so I will have to think about that for awhile.  I donít really understand how all this happens.  ::)

It is amazing to me that you can get so many different results with using different formulas.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #122 on: August 29, 2010, 10:18:06 PM »
I made another pizza tonight in the BBQ grill set-up with firebricks. I changed two things tonight.  I used soapstone for the bottom stone. that was placed on top of the grates of the BBQ grill.  I also place another steel pan on top of the steel pan that has firebricks placed inside that pan.  The steel pan is just like the steel pan with the firebricks.  I forgot to bring home my IR gun, so I wasnít sure of the soapstone temperature or the top of the steel pan temperature.  I heated the BBQ grill for about an hour.

This pizza was made with the Ishcia starter incorporated into the Lehmann dough.  The dough was made Wednesday, bulk fermented for about 6 hrs. then balled and cold fermented until tonight. 

Pictures below

Norma

Offline Tampa

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #123 on: August 30, 2010, 08:37:02 AM »
Novel grill setups always peak my interest.  In looking over your most recent posts, I believe you do not have/use a rear-mounted rotisserie IR burner.  I also note that you have the soapstone moved slightly to the right in the picture leaving a heat gap on the left between the wall and base.  The aluminum foil, Iíd guess, is to encourage the heat flow up the gap.  Was there a similar gap between the rear of the soapstone and the backwall?

Of course your pie, as always, looks great.  I would have thought that the bottom would be charred in contrast to an under-done topside - because that soapstone conducts very well and there isnít comparable heat flow over the top.  Youíve got kind of a little black egg effect.

You didnít use an upside down pie pan, right?  Maybe that slab of soapstone was so thick that it was at just the right temperature when you threw the pie on.

Thanks for sharing.

Dave

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #124 on: August 30, 2010, 09:05:56 AM »
Dave,

I didnít think, before I made this pizza. I made enough dough for a 14" pizza and only thought about my soapstone not being big enough for that size of pizza when I was opening the dough ball.

No, I donít have a rear-mounted rotisserie IR burner. Someday I might purchase one of those.  Right now my furry friend need an expensive operation, so any pizza making equipment will have to wait. I think I am going to have to get a part-time job to help pay for that operation. I am applying for one today. I don't want to spend my retirement money, so I will probably get a part-time job for awhile. That is life.  :-D Yes, I do have a heat gap on the left and on the right side of the wall and base. If I would move them right next to the firebricks, do you think that would give me a better bake?  The back wall was right again the soapstone. That is how the edges got so brown in some places. The rim hit the back of the firebricks. The aluminum foil had BBQ smoking cherry chips place inside the aluminum foil, with top holes punched in.  I had wanted this to smoke to give the pizza a smoky flavor, but didnít put them in soon enough.  When I went to do the bake, they were just starting to smoke.  Next time I will put them in sooner to see what happens.  My friend has a BBQ set-up that he uses and places chips at the back of his stone. They ignite from the heat. I havenít seen him use it, but he says the heat from the fire helps to raise his temperature on the top dome. My BBQ set-up isnít big enough to place the chips on the baking stone. The bottom of this pie did get darker too fast, so I did have to place an upside down pan under the pizza so the bottom wouldnít get too charred.  The bottom wanted to char in about 45 seconds. 

Thanks also for your help,  :)

Norma
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 09:14:57 AM by norma427 »


 

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