Author Topic: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?  (Read 27725 times)

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Offline Tampa

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #120 on: July 19, 2010, 08:16:07 AM »
Good stuff Norma.  I love the experimentation and great pictures.  The spotting looks great, especially on that last pie.  I assume you use the upside-down pie pan to finish off the top cooking - a novel idea, at least for me.

Three of us (forum members) in Tampa enjoy your posts.

Dave


Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #121 on: July 19, 2010, 09:38:46 AM »
Good stuff Norma.  I love the experimentation and great pictures.  The spotting looks great, especially on that last pie.  I assume you use the upside-down pie pan to finish off the top cooking - a novel idea, at least for me.

Three of us (forum members) in Tampa enjoy your posts.

Dave

Tampa,

Thanks for saying you like the experimentation and pictures.  I also see you and your friends experiment a lot and I enjoy reading your posts, too.  :)  I started using the upside down pan, when Jackie Tran and Peter told me if my bottom gets dark too fast, to put a pan or screen under the pie, so my bottom doesnít burn.  The top cooking in this BBQ grill set-up seems to work okay.  Someday I will do more experimenting with using different set-ups.  The larger preferment for the Lehmann dough ball I used yesterday, almost hit the top of the steel pan, while baking.  I wanted to see what difference there would be in using a smaller dough ball and then letting a larger dough ball thicker in terms of the crust.  I almost got the same results, in terms of oven spring, (from using a small dough ball to compare using a large dough ball) even using lower bake temperatures, so I will have to think about that for awhile.  I donít really understand how all this happens.  ::)

It is amazing to me that you can get so many different results with using different formulas.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #122 on: August 29, 2010, 10:18:06 PM »
I made another pizza tonight in the BBQ grill set-up with firebricks. I changed two things tonight.  I used soapstone for the bottom stone. that was placed on top of the grates of the BBQ grill.  I also place another steel pan on top of the steel pan that has firebricks placed inside that pan.  The steel pan is just like the steel pan with the firebricks.  I forgot to bring home my IR gun, so I wasnít sure of the soapstone temperature or the top of the steel pan temperature.  I heated the BBQ grill for about an hour.

This pizza was made with the Ishcia starter incorporated into the Lehmann dough.  The dough was made Wednesday, bulk fermented for about 6 hrs. then balled and cold fermented until tonight. 

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Norma
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Offline Tampa

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #123 on: August 30, 2010, 08:37:02 AM »
Novel grill setups always peak my interest.  In looking over your most recent posts, I believe you do not have/use a rear-mounted rotisserie IR burner.  I also note that you have the soapstone moved slightly to the right in the picture leaving a heat gap on the left between the wall and base.  The aluminum foil, Iíd guess, is to encourage the heat flow up the gap.  Was there a similar gap between the rear of the soapstone and the backwall?

Of course your pie, as always, looks great.  I would have thought that the bottom would be charred in contrast to an under-done topside - because that soapstone conducts very well and there isnít comparable heat flow over the top.  Youíve got kind of a little black egg effect.

You didnít use an upside down pie pan, right?  Maybe that slab of soapstone was so thick that it was at just the right temperature when you threw the pie on.

Thanks for sharing.

Dave

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #124 on: August 30, 2010, 09:05:56 AM »
Dave,

I didnít think, before I made this pizza. I made enough dough for a 14" pizza and only thought about my soapstone not being big enough for that size of pizza when I was opening the dough ball.

No, I donít have a rear-mounted rotisserie IR burner. Someday I might purchase one of those.  Right now my furry friend need an expensive operation, so any pizza making equipment will have to wait. I think I am going to have to get a part-time job to help pay for that operation. I am applying for one today. I don't want to spend my retirement money, so I will probably get a part-time job for awhile. That is life.  :-D Yes, I do have a heat gap on the left and on the right side of the wall and base. If I would move them right next to the firebricks, do you think that would give me a better bake?  The back wall was right again the soapstone. That is how the edges got so brown in some places. The rim hit the back of the firebricks. The aluminum foil had BBQ smoking cherry chips place inside the aluminum foil, with top holes punched in.  I had wanted this to smoke to give the pizza a smoky flavor, but didnít put them in soon enough.  When I went to do the bake, they were just starting to smoke.  Next time I will put them in sooner to see what happens.  My friend has a BBQ set-up that he uses and places chips at the back of his stone. They ignite from the heat. I havenít seen him use it, but he says the heat from the fire helps to raise his temperature on the top dome. My BBQ set-up isnít big enough to place the chips on the baking stone. The bottom of this pie did get darker too fast, so I did have to place an upside down pan under the pizza so the bottom wouldnít get too charred.  The bottom wanted to char in about 45 seconds. 

Thanks also for your help,  :)

Norma
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 09:14:57 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Tampa

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #125 on: August 30, 2010, 01:34:25 PM »
Norma, you are a sweetheart.  I wish you full-time succes and the best of luck with fluffy's recovery.

I don't really have meaningful suggestions WRT the grill because I don't really understand the setup (I can't see the inside/back wall).  From the picture it looks like the soapstone is all the way to the right side and the air gap is only on the left wall.  I can't see anything in the back area.

I hope your friend isn't Craig.  Although he is a very nice guy, I may have poked a bit of fun at him for building a fire inside his gas grill.  I understand his pizza is pretty good.

Dave

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #126 on: August 30, 2010, 05:28:11 PM »
Dave,

Thanks for the best of luck with my furry friends recovery.   :)

I just tried to take some pictures of how my BBQ set-up looks.  I guess I didnít have my camera adjusted right, because it really canít be seen how the back of my BBQ grill is.  I usually have firebricks on the bottom for the hearth. As can be seen in these few pictures there are firebricks in the top steel pan.  Sometimes I add more firebricks on the bottom so I can bake a bigger pie.  I really donít have any plans, I just keep trying things out.  If you have any suggestions after looking at these pictures, let me know.  I usually let the top firebricks heat first and add the bottom firebricks with a big tong. I couldnít add the soapstone last evening after the heat-up because the soapstone is too heavy for the tongs.  I had to add the soapstone before the heat-up.  Sometimes the bottom firebricks are right against the side firebricks. The upside down pan in the one picture, is the pan I used last evening so the bottom wouldn't char more.

I am a friend of Craigís, but it is Steve (Ev) that sets the fire in his grill.  He does have good results with his.  He is the member that is building a WFO.  Craigís pizza also look great.

Pictures below

Norma
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Offline Tampa

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #127 on: August 30, 2010, 07:17:21 PM »
Iím not an expert in oven design but Iíve run a lot of tests in my own oven and after learning from some surprises, I can offer an opinion.  )Also, I have learned a lot from the smart folks building little black eggs and I think the lessons apply well for grill setups.)

The source of all your heat is the burners below.  Just like the little black egg, the key for success in your setup will be getting the pizza stone to your desired temperature and having enough hot air blowing over the top of the pie.

In a nice way, Iíd like to suggest that those fire brick in the upper tray do nothing more than insure your grill wonít blow away in a heavy wind.  It seems very clear from all the egg builders that the upper surface needs to be dimensionally low and tight against the pizza to direct (convect) hot airflow right over the pie.  If the sides of that tray were a little taller, you could remove all the fire brick from your setup, turn the tray upside down and set it over the soapstone.  You would want to cut a nice long slot in the front (~16Ē long) to slide the pizza in, and act as an exhaust vent for the hot air flowing up over the stone.

If you have a buddy that is handy with steel and can extend 3 walls (left side, back side, and right side) about 3 inches, I think you would have a winner with the upside down tray with extensions.  A greater airflow would exist between the soapstone and the sidewall because the thick firebrick would be removed.  After that, I would pull the soapstone all the way to the front of the grill and leave the upside down tray pushed to the back.  Even though the stone would stick out past the tray a few inches, it wouldnít matter.  But the benefit would be that you would get more hot airflow mostly from the big gap in the back and somewhat from the sides.  Fire up a couple of burners and all the heat would flow to the bottom of the stone, around the sides, but mostly around the back, over the pie, and out the front.

Hope that helps.

Dave

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #128 on: August 30, 2010, 07:42:22 PM »
Dave,

I sure am not an oven designer and never know what to try out next.  :-D  I have some steel that I could cut and try your idea.  The picture of the galvanized steel is at Reply http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11133.msg101400.html#msg101400

Do you think by cutting the galvanized steel, like you said, then the BBQ grill set-up might work better?

Thanks for your help,

Norma
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Offline Tampa

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #129 on: August 31, 2010, 11:31:38 AM »
Sure, that steel looks fine.  You should be able to cut it with tin snips and maybe rivet it to the tray.  If you want to get really jiggy with it, you could extend the sides down through the grill and ensure that every BTU of heat goes up to the stone (and doesnít slip out the sides).

What were working toward is getting rid of all that thermal mass (firebrick) and leaving only the soapstone.  That one inch slab of soapstone will take a while to heat (and is probably 2-3x the thickness you need), but it will work fine, especially if you are baking multiple pies.  Try to capture every bit of hot rising air in a smooth flow up to impinge first on the stone, then around mostly the back, but a little on the sides, before it flows over the pie and out the front loading slot.

Dave


Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #130 on: August 31, 2010, 09:30:07 PM »
Dave,

Thanks for saying the steel looks fine and helping me with my BBQ grill set-up. I don't think I have anything to rivet with, but will look around to see if I can find something to fasten the steel to the pan.  If I find time this weekend, I will get the tin snips out and see what I can do. 

Norma
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Offline Tampa

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #131 on: September 01, 2010, 08:48:41 AM »
Rivet tools are cheap at harbor freight.  I like them b/c they are aluminum and inert in a hot oven, plus they don't take much space.  A drill, bolt, and nut work fine also.
Dave

Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #132 on: September 01, 2010, 09:43:57 AM »
Rivet tools are cheap at harbor freight.  I like them b/c they are aluminum and inert in a hot oven, plus they don't take much space.  A drill, bolt, and nut work fine also.
Dave

Dave,

Thanks for telling me about the riveting tools at Harbor Freight.  That is where I bought my IR gun.  I do have many of my late dad's tools, but can't remember if I have his riveting tools. He did have any kind of tool you could think of or he could fabricate anything he thought of.  He had a five car garage at home and worked on cars, did body work, electrical work, plumbing, welding, and many more things. I will have to look to see if I have his tool.  I also have many coffee cans of bolts and nuts and do have a good drill.  I will work on this project when I find time.

Thanks again for your help.  :)

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #133 on: April 23, 2011, 04:07:02 PM »
I was at an estate garage sale later this morning and found many interesting things at decent prices.  The thing that interested me the most was this steel grilling pan.  It is very heavy and I was wondering if anyone thinks it can be used in my BBQ grill set-up or home oven some way to try and make pizza.  If it doesnít work for pizza in either my home oven or BBQ grill set-up, I then will just use it as a grill on top of my stove.  It was only 15.00, so I didnít think it was too expensive.

Pictures below

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #134 on: July 29, 2011, 11:28:12 AM »
I have been thinking about this steel grilling pan, I bought at the estate sale, and had tried to fit it into my home oven, but it wouldnít fit.  I had measured my deck oven yesterday at market, to see how high the decks were from the top, on both decks.  It made me curious, if the steel grill pan might work in some way in my BBQ grill. I placed the steel grilling pan in my BBQ grill this morning, and it does fit.  I am not too sure if this set-up will work to make a pizza, but I put the firebricks on the bottom, sides, and back, and placed the steel grilling pan on top.  There is a space between the bottom firebricks, and the back firebricks, for the heat to come up from my three burners.  If anyone has any other ideas for placements, I will appreciate hearing them.  I might take some of my wood chips, and also burn them in combination with the propane.

I am going to make a formula with part Caputo and part KASL and use the wheat berry starter I made.  I donít know when the dough will be ready to make a pizza, but I will watch it.

Pictures of my deck oven measurements and my set-up now in my BBQ grill.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #135 on: July 29, 2011, 10:03:11 PM »
Wow, I almost thought I was eating in Italy tonight, or had baked my two pizzas in a WFO.  The set-up I did today in the BBQ grill, was the best up to this date.  I made the one dough, I said I was going to this morning, and also used a mystery dough . The dough I made this morning, with the wheat berry starter should have fermented more, but since it was starting to get dark, I thought I better bake it.  The mystery dough turned out better than the dough I made this morning, but both were very good in my opinion.  They both had char, oven spring, and a moist crusts.

I let me BBQ grill warm-up for about 45 minutes.  I could see my bottom firebricks were getting hotter than ever before.  Whew, that made me happy.  ;D I then put some cherry BBQ smoking chips on the back of the firebricks and saw them ignite.  I thought forum control, we do  have ignition. The cherry BBQ smoking chips did make my firebricks hotter.  After I saw the temperatures reaching over 800 degrees F, I thought that was good.  The temperatures did go over 900 degrees F, but with me fiddling with the lid, they did drop back to the 800's.  The first pie only took 2 minutes 15 seconds to bake.  I almost burnt the back of the pie, because I didnít think to open the lid in time to rotate the pie, or didn't think the pie would bake that fast. 

The first pie was dressed with my regular tomato sauce, two kinds of mozzarellas, and three kinds of tomatoes from my garden. 

I then went outside and added some more of the cherry BBQ smoking chips, and waited about 10 minutes.  The fire was roaring again..lol   The second mystery pie was baked in less than two minutes.  The second mystery pie was the best in my opinion.  It was dressed with Lesís sauce, Grande cheese, shredded Parmesan, Romano, and Asiago Cheeses, tomatoes fresh picked from the garden, and after the bake, dressed with basil from my garden.

I thought these were fast bakes for my BBQ set-up.

Pictures below

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #136 on: July 29, 2011, 10:04:18 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #137 on: July 29, 2011, 10:05:35 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #138 on: July 29, 2011, 10:07:30 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #139 on: July 29, 2011, 10:08:53 PM »
Norma
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