Author Topic: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?  (Read 27952 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21958
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #160 on: August 13, 2011, 08:38:37 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #161 on: August 14, 2011, 07:04:20 AM »
Wow Norma,
Your oven-in-grill setup seems to produce some nice climate for a crispy yet juicy pie. Myself i recently acquired a gas bbq to start baking pies at a much higher temperature.
How long did you bake them ? What was the rim like ?

Yesterday i baked one in my bbq, inspired by all the guys here in the forum, like you, craig, tampa and others. Will post some pics about my set-up as soon as i am allowed as a newbie  :chef:

Happy wfo-in-a-bbq-ing !
Martin

Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)

Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #162 on: August 14, 2011, 07:10:40 AM »
Norma, craig, tampa... Do you think the admin would allow a bbqgrill category to see all the post bundledmabout how to achieve max temp from the top with overall high temperature... See some pretty inspiring constructions out there... However dont really wanna modify my bbq in a way like cutting it... Should not forget i persuaded my wife to a gas grill also with drawing the picture of a juice steak for her, butmhaving a nepolitan pie in my mind...hehe  :angel:

Martin
Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21958
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #163 on: August 14, 2011, 08:38:28 AM »
Martino1 ,

Glad to hear you acquired a gas BBQ grill to start making pies.  :)  The pie I made yesterday, was finished in a little over about 1 Ĺ minute I think, but  I didnít time it.  The whole pizza was good (was a 10Ē), but my dough wasnít the best.  I really just mixed up a dough quick, so I could try the BBQ grill again.

Craig and Tampaís BBQ grill set-ups are better than mine, and do produce better pies.  I would go with an infra-red back burner this year, but my friend Steve, is going to help me convert my Weber (22Ē) into a pizza oven.  Steve, is soon going to start working on my Weber grill. 

Will be interested in seeing your pies made in your BBQ set-up.  I think you have enough posts to be able to post your pictures.

In reference to your question about having a thread about having a BBQ grill category, I think that would take someone a long time, for someone to be able to find all the posts, then put them into one thread.  Each different BBQ grill set-up will have its own unique problems with getting even top and bottom heat, at least in my opinion.  If you look at the Weber grill threads, you can see each person had to figure out what worked best for them. 

If you are planning on baking your pizzas in a regular BBQ grill set-up, then I would look at Craigs or Tampaís threads.  There are also other threads by other members, where they also had decent results.

I had to chuckle when you posted you persuaded your wife to get a BBQ grill with juicy steaks in mind, but you were thinking about Neapolitan pies.  :-D

Best of luck with baking pizza on your BBQ grill!  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #164 on: August 14, 2011, 11:45:22 AM »
Hallo Norma,
There is so much information here and all the pizzaholics like myself trying to achieve the idea of the pie in mind. I will check more of the posts to see how the fellows succeed to keep the heat inside. My bbq shows more than 800F at full throttle and my stone still had 600F 15 mins after the last bake. So the stone heat also for me does not be the problem, but the top heat.
I baked 3mins, then top and bottom seem to be balanced.
however i am not really happy yet with the taste and texture of the rim, so need to change and try one of the 100 variables at a time  :D
Also unfortunately here i cannot get those great ingredients Like the caputo pizza flour, fresh yeast, san marzanos and a nice mozz. At this point maybe this also doesnt matter so much
My wife is patient, but i get this certain look when it is the 3rd weekend in a row we had pizza and she cannot seem to understand that we need to stop shopping because i urgently need to go home and ball my dough  ::)

It seems i cannot attach a pic to this post on the ipad, so i try my luck soon again and post the pictures,of the setup.

Cheers. Martin

Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21958
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #165 on: August 14, 2011, 02:48:13 PM »
Hallo Norma,
There is so much information here and all the pizzaholics like myself trying to achieve the idea of the pie in mind. I will check more of the posts to see how the fellows succeed to keep the heat inside. My bbq shows more than 800F at full throttle and my stone still had 600F 15 mins after the last bake. So the stone heat also for me does not be the problem, but the top heat.
I baked 3mins, then top and bottom seem to be balanced.
however i am not really happy yet with the taste and texture of the rim, so need to change and try one of the 100 variables at a time  :D
Also unfortunately here i cannot get those great ingredients Like the caputo pizza flour, fresh yeast, san marzanos and a nice mozz. At this point maybe this also doesnt matter so much
My wife is patient, but i get this certain look when it is the 3rd weekend in a row we had pizza and she cannot seem to understand that we need to stop shopping because i urgently need to go home and ball my dough  ::)

It seems i cannot attach a pic to this post on the ipad, so i try my luck soon again and post the pictures,of the setup.

Cheers. Martin




Martin,

I agree, that is so much information about everything here on the forum.  If you need any help with a specific kind of thread, I can help you, or you can search on the main page, under Google Search, at the bottom of the main page, or do search under the search feature http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=search  or do an advanced search under the advanced search feature, by putting what you want to search for and then the users name here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=search;advanced;search=

Good to hear after the 3 minute bake, that your top and bottom seem to be balanced.  If you arenít happy with the taste and texture of the rim, you will need to experiment maybe with different variables or what kind of flour is available to you.  Craig had get success using a AP flour.  

You made me chuckle again, when you said you wife doesnít understand you need to get home and ball your dough again.   :-D

I donít have a ipad, so I can't help you with how to post pictures with one. Maybe another member with an ipad will see this post and help you, or you could post a new thread on how to post pictures from an ipad.  If you could post pictures under your thread, maybe someone could help you with your BBQ-set-up.

Good luck!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #166 on: August 15, 2011, 07:51:14 AM »
Hi Norma,
thanks for the hints and i was digging through a lot of threads about using the high heat possible in a bbq grill.
My wife is asian and not necessarily a pizza freak, but I got her a bit into it and she understands it is my hobby since i am a teenager, even never intensified it like now. However, it is not easy to get the understanding from an outsider, that proofing dough is a science and we need to plan the weekend around the little bacteria in the dough enjoying the party or not  ;D

After reading Jeff V.s page I started fishing the seeds out of my tomatoe sauce, because they are bitter... but explain to a non pizzaholic that you get up at 7:30am on a sunday morning, put the apron on and start looking with a teaspoon in the tomatoe sauce... quite funny I guess.

Looking at the set-ups of all the technicaal geniuses here, I think they all have in common, that it is easy to get the botton done fast, due to the direct heat from the burners, but the challenge is on how to keep the heat flowing from the top to the pizza.
I am not so happy with the taste of my crust, i find it is always tasting the same and not so close to a good WFOs taste. Part of the problem is, that i cannot get fresh yeast here, not to mention caputo pizzaria flour nor san marzanos. So instead I am using 10,5% divella pizza flour, which is also unbleached. I add a bit of gluten to bring up the protein to 12%, so I can increase the hydration a bit. I cannot get a good mozz here, so this time i experimented adding some Edamer cheese (I recall the italian pizzamakers in Europe sometimes use it to substitute Mozzarella, when not yet widely available some years back).

My approach for the set-up is:
- no modifications on the grill which I cannot reverse
- do nothing which could blow the house away. This also includes not to expose me or my expecting wife to an explosion risk (since she is giving birth soon I can understand that she is a bit worried about me lighting a fire in the gas bbq).
- move the stone a bit higher and closer to the top lid in order to grab the convection heat there
- ignite all the burners to get the max overall heat.
- I use a metal strainer to a) lift up the stone and b) to guide the hot air from below around the stone to the top (so much for the theory)
- additionally at the left side i have a can (top and bottom removed) on which i have a metal skillet with wood chips and coal to get extra heat from the top and a bit of WFO feeling

Actually the first results seem promising, but i am not 100% satisfied. I think when opening the lid I lose heat to the sides and the front, even i try only to lift the lid so that i can place the pizza on the stone and rotate once.
The stone can retain the heat, but maybe it takes too long for the air above the stone to heat up again after i let it go out.
I might try to work into the direction you are trying by installing a top and a side wall.

What kind of bricks are you using ? Is this any special material ?
I am using a basalt stone, after my Weber pizza soapstone cracked. The basalt is a vulcanic stone and can take and retain heat quite well I think, plus I can get it for 3 USD here ;-), but the stone shops look for the big business, not for a freak buying one stone at a time and DIY stores no have here.

The baking time is around 3 minutes and the top browns ok, but could be faster. Still my crust looks a bit pale, i have to work on the dough mix here. Maybe the yeast took all the sugar, even if it is only 0.08% IDY, but fermenting 20 hours at room temp (24degree C/75 F) with aircon on. The crust i shape not too high and had some air in it, but the bottom still a bit too hard. Here it is quite hot...

Let's see...

Lots of greetings,
Martin


Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21958
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #167 on: August 15, 2011, 09:42:39 AM »
Martin,

Thanks so much for posting what your methods are in making your dough and how your BBQ set-up looks, and what methods you use in your BBQ grill set-up.  

It is good your wife understands about your pizza making hobby. I can understand you donít want to expose yourself or your wife to an explosion risk. Your pizza does look very tasty in the way your are experimenting.  :)

There are a lot of technical geniuses on the forum, and usually they agree that getting even top and bottom heat will give you the best bake.  I am not one of the technical geniuses on how to accomplish the best bake, but just try different things.  As you can see, my ideas havenít always worked out.  Opening the lid is a problem in heat loss.  I had a few chances to bake in my friends real WFO and there is a big difference in how they bake.

You really donít need fresh yeast to be able to make a good pizza dough.  What kind of yeast do you have access to?  Some members donít like the taste of gluten added to pizza dough.  I personally didnít mind it when I did that a few times.  If you want to look at another thread about a member Pizza01(Michael)that used VWG for his doughs since he didnít have the right protein of flour where he lives, there is one at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13197.msg129879.html#msg129879  If you are interested, you could click on his name and see from his past posts all the experimenting he did to find a great pizza dough, with the flours he had to use.  Michael became a very accomplished pizza maker.
 
I am not an expert on stones either, but your pizza stone does look good to me.  The bricks I am using are firebricks.  I purchased them from a local brick place. They are meant to be used at high heat.  

Maybe if you post your BBQ oven set-up on another start up thread, you might get more attention in help.  Also if you started another thread about helping with your dough, there might be more members that can help you with that.  My thread about my BBQ grill set-up doesnít get a lot of replys, so hopefully someone else with more information than me, might be able to help you, with your set-up and dough.

Thanks for posting your pictures.  There are really look good!  :)

Norma
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 09:44:13 AM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #168 on: August 15, 2011, 12:36:55 PM »
Hi Martin,

That looks like yummy pizza to me.  Good for you.  I wasnít expecting as much success.

I donít know the properties of your stone.  It looks rather thick, so Iíd expect the warm up time to be 45 minutes or more.  In the interest of safety, youíll want to confirm basalt will hold up at high temperature Ė maybe some internet reading.

The idea to move the stone high in the grill seems creative to me.  Iíve not seen, nor considered, that before.

IMO, you are correct that the challenge for grill setups ups is to limit the bottom char and promote the top char.  I didnít see the underside of your crust, but if you want more char, Iíd suggest replacing the support strainer with something that does not divert the heat from the underside of the stone directly under the pie.  I suspect you are OK with the bottom side and are looking to promote more top-side char.  If so, read on.

Iíd take note of the rim char you did get, and where it came from.  It appears from one photo that the front of the oven may be where the heat flow came from.  (I could be wrong, especially if that pie was just rotated and the back is where the char came from.)

Given that most grills have a vent out the back, Iíd think your best chance to optimize hot airflow over the pie would be to block all the heat coming up the back and sides and force it out the front, around the stone, and exit the back.  This is kind of the reverse of what the LBE folks do Ė they flow up the back and out the front.  But in your case, the back vent is built-in, and since you cook with the lid closed, a plausible means to get the most heat over the pie would be reversed.  I donít know what materials you have handy.

Either that, or you could just enjoy the pie.

Dave

Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #169 on: August 15, 2011, 09:14:21 PM »
Norma,
Thanks for the good hints. Maybe itis better to move to a new thread, I am sorry to clog it up and will start a new one, instead of a hostile take over  ;)
Thanks for the tips and i will keep you updated...

Dave, thanks you for the valuable input. I will open a separate thread to discuss a bit further.

Basalt seems to be the right stone, termal properties close to Granite and can stand extreme heat. I also feel it keeps the heat for a long period, but yes: i heat it upfor an hour and the temp still keeps rising.
See this two links
http://www.smarter-building-systems.com/basalt-product-uses.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-solids-d_154.html
Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21958
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #170 on: August 15, 2011, 10:36:20 PM »
Martin,

No need to worry about clogging up my thread.  I donít mind what someone posts on my threads.  I just thought you might get more answers if you started a new thread.  That way, if some members donít read my thread, they might read yours.

I will be following your threads to see how you are doing. 

Best of luck!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #171 on: August 16, 2011, 08:48:20 AM »
Thanks for the site information.  If basalt holds up under temperature, it holds up Ė but I didnít see anything in the links that showed it worked in grills.  Iím just wanting you and your family to be safe and a big chunk of stone on top of a strainer looked questionable to me.

You might consider a thinner slab.  Assuming the properties of basalt are ďin the ballparkĒ with firebrick and cordierite, you probably donít need more than ĹĒ to cook a pizza.  Iíve posted elsewhere on this, but for me, I can turn the burners off after the launching the pizza and the retained heat in a ĹĒ thick cordierite stone cooks the underside the same as if I had the underside burners full on.  Iím not suggesting you turn off the burners, but a thinner slab should cut the warm-up time.

Dave

Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #172 on: August 16, 2011, 10:01:45 PM »
Dear Dave,
All valid points, they are well noted with thanks. Especially the airflow dynamics need a deeper look into as soon as i have got the time. I checked about Basalt stone and it seems to perfectly fit what i am looking for. The stone should not crack at high temps, can take direct heat. It is even used as grilling stone
http://www.vermontcountrygrillstone.com/2011/05/01/how-to-grill-on-stone/

I think you are right, i should get a thinner one, this one needs quite some heating time. Unfortunately there is no DIY store here. Will try out some modifications, then start a new thread.
Have fun.
Martin
Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)

Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #173 on: August 28, 2011, 11:54:44 PM »
Given that most grills have a vent out the back, Iíd think your best chance to optimize hot airflow over the pie would be to block all the heat coming up the back and sides and force it out the front, around the stone, and exit the back.  This is kind of the reverse of what the LBE folks do Ė they flow up the back and out the front.  But in your case, the back vent is built-in, and since you cook with the lid closed, a plausible means to get the most heat over the pie would be reversed.  I donít know what materials you have handy.



Thanks a lot Tampa. Your hint with the airflow really worked for me. This and the use of the available rear burner made the difference. The baking stone held 850F without a problem and has a bit of a porous surface to bake in two minutes. The strainer can be used for its original purpose now  ;)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15298.new.html
Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21958
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #174 on: August 29, 2011, 08:17:38 AM »
Martin,

Using the adjustments Tampa gave you, your pizza really turned out well.  Beautiful pie!  :chef: Congrats!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #175 on: August 29, 2011, 11:24:30 AM »
Thanks Norma !
I liked it best so far and now i already have some things in mnd i want to optimize further.
Have to wait until next weekend to start the new batch.

Seems the basic food in the family changes to pizza nowadays   :P
Have to balance a bit with ruccola salad, with a honey balsamic and EVO dressing...
We will have a new family member soon, so one more to help clearing the leftovers   :-D
Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)

Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #176 on: August 29, 2011, 01:37:45 PM »
Good for you Martin.  I'm glad it worked out.  Next time I'm in Ho Chi Minh City, I'll stop in for a slice ;D

Dave

Offline Martino1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: Beijing, China
  • so much to learn
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #177 on: August 29, 2011, 08:29:47 PM »
You have to, Dave ! ... Any chance let me know !
My wife can't see Pizza no mo' :-D

Thanks again
Martin
Pizza is the only dish perfect for breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, late night snack ;-)

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21958
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #178 on: June 17, 2012, 08:31:00 PM »
If anyone is interested I did bake a Neapolitan pie in my BBQ set-up today.  The write-up and pictures are at Reply 328 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19129.msg192173.html#msg192173

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Any ideas if this pizza oven would work?
« Reply #179 on: June 19, 2012, 07:42:48 PM »
Yum.  Nice job Norma!
Dave