Author Topic: Wood Burning pizza oven  (Read 95625 times)

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2005, 12:00:43 AM »
Lithium,

In my experience, you need to keep a nice fire burning throughout the cooking process, not just to maintain the temp of the brick, but also to radiate heat onto the top of the pie so that the whole thing is done as quickly as possible. Oxygen can be in short supply causing the fire to smolder. I refuel with a few small pieces of log rather than a single larger one. A fire off to one side rather than in the back may burn better.

Sometimes all a smoldering fire needs is a flame to reignite it. I use a propane torch (aka cactus burner) to throw some flames onto smoldering wood and that does the trick in an second or two. You'll be able to bake pies all day long if you maintain a small fire after the oven gets up to baking temps.

Hope this helps.

Bill/SFNM
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Offline Randy

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2005, 07:35:45 AM »
I was looking at your website and noticed in one of the pictures of the fire in the oven a board half burned.  I don't know what type of wood the is but a word of caution about using soft wood like pine.

Randy

Offline Lithium

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2005, 07:53:17 PM »
Thanks for the input. So it sounds like small pieces of properly seasoned/dried hard wood is my best bet. What about charcoal, will that work at all?

~Shea~

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2005, 04:10:28 AM »
I would not use characoal.

If you read this post from the beginning, you will have all your answers on the design flawn and why not using charcoal.

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2005, 08:15:27 AM »
In the past I have had a clay oven and had refractary brick as floor the rest of the brick just normal construction brick and I did cooked the most wonderful pizzas and suckling pigs
I've come across a site showing similar ovens here http://www.pasqualinonet.com.ar/El%20horno%20de%20barro.htm
You may need to translate this pages for details
« Last Edit: August 20, 2005, 09:35:09 AM by piroshok »

Offline ToddZ

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2005, 12:23:07 PM »
just Googled to your exchange on this topic...good stuff!

I am going to build one of these and was wondering if anyone had any plans, specs, or procedures that would help guide me through?

There's some good info througout your posts, but, was hoping to get a little more of a step by step...

Thx

Offline Lithium

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2005, 09:09:27 PM »
I put some pdfs of partial plans on my page that I used, but I mostly used the Bread Builders Book you can get on Amazon as talked about above.

http://www.lithiums.com/pizza/index.html


BTW, I now fully appreciate the difference in properly dried wood. I heated the oven last week with better fire wood, and even after the fire went out, I could cook pizza for hours, and bread up to 10 hours after the fire went out!

~Shea~

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2005, 08:23:48 AM »
What I call pizza should only be cooked in the neapolitan style oven described earlier in this post, for 45-90 seconds, with a full flame. Cooking a pizza after the fire has run out means having a different finish product.

One last note:

The picture posted by me earlier in this thread are of an oven built by someone that had never laid a brick before.

Offline Repguy

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2005, 09:50:28 AM »
You should look at buying a pre-fab oven.  They have more thermal mass,  more head space and state of the art ceramic, stone technology than the had built ovens that won't hold temp during times of high production.  I have seen many places that have hand built ovens and their pies don't look so good.  As a matter of fact at the ny pizza show last year, caputo didn't even bring an oven because they know it won't hold up.  They cooked in one of the pre fab ovens that was there and were making really nice pies.


Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2005, 04:18:05 PM »
I can judge a pizza cooked by a fellow pizzaiolo to see if the "not looking good pizza" is due to him or to the oven.  So to answer your question I have never cooked a pizza in a woodstone, but I have seen several pizza coming out of it with some expert pizzaioli behind the peels (including STrada in UK). That oven cannot produce a Neapolitan pizza and that is what make me an expert.

Now looks at the pizza baked in Naples or mine baked in London and compare them to any pre-fab or coal oven... no context.

More head space is a fault in neapolitan pizza production...

The ovens in Naples work from 10.00 am to midnight at full regime and never loose temperature. between 1200 and 1500 hours  and 1900 and 2300 these ovens work at a regime of 200 plus pizza an hour, and you tell me they do not hold up the temperature????

Finally, Caputo could not bring an oven inside the Show, because the fire wood was not allowed as it was a close space, and they did  not have a flue system.

Just to clarify my poiunt to you, as probably you may get me wrong:

I am talking about authentic Pizza Napoletana production at all the time of my comment on the ovens. If any on this forum needs a different oven to produce any other form of pizza/focaccia, then they can consider all other option.

Offline Repguy

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2005, 05:38:00 PM »
If you have never cooked in a Wood stone oven, how do you know that it won't do the job?  Its like WATCHING a car being driven by a bad driver and then assumming that that car doesn't handle well. 

Offline sumeri

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2005, 11:50:23 PM »
I saw the wood stone oven at Tuttabella (A VPN) in Seattle.  That thing looked like it had a garage door on it, not an oven opening.  I'm not sure how you could ever get that thing to heat up like a Napoli style oven.  They may be great ovens for normal American pizza, but not for Napoli style.




Offline Repguy

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2005, 09:00:20 AM »
Did you happen to notice what temp they were achieving in the oven?  At least 700f.  I would say thats hot enough to do a neo pie.  VPN thinks so.

Offline scott r

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2005, 09:22:53 AM »
I am not trying to slag woodstone ovens here, but I did notice while in Naples that the pies turned out much better at the places that had really raging fires.  You can tell by looking at the pies when they will be the better super high temp ones.  I have a laser thermometer, and have been using it to check out temps at various pizzerias, and I can most definitely tell you that the places with 700 degree floor temps were not turning out the best pies.  I didn't measure Trianon, but I can guarantee it was up in the 900 degree floor temp range.

Offline Repguy

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2005, 11:51:26 AM »
If you didn't measure it how do you know?

Offline scott r

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2005, 12:29:23 PM »
The ovens that I did measure in the 825 range were not nearly as packed with flames and coals.  Just standing in front of Trianon's oven 20 feet away I could feel the heat bursting at me like a gigantic hair dryer/laser beam from hell.  This was in a space where 20 feet to the side of the oven it was cool.  When looking  into the oven the floor had that wobbly look, almost as if the oven floor was moving from the visual distortion that the heat caused.  Also, Trianon had the fastest turnaround time for the pies of the places I visited, all the pies coming out in less than a minute.  I would have shot their oven, but I was only doing this at places where I could talk to the pizzaiolo first, and the guy tending the oven at Trianon spent every second in between pies restocking the wood/kindling.  I had no time to get into a convesation with him.  Trust me, it is quite obvious when looking at an oven if it is hotter than another one when you have been walking around Naples with a laser thermometer for two days assessing heat issues. I would not be surprised if that oven was above 1000 degrees.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 12:32:26 PM by scott r »

Offline Repguy

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2005, 12:44:02 PM »
I think it is important to also realize where oven manufactures measure their temp from.  The location of a thermocouple means alot.  If it is located up in the dome, where some manufactures do locate them, it is easy to say that the oven is 1000F.  That is where the stored energy lives and also the hottest part of the oven.  Some locate it halfway down the wall.  Others bury it one inch below the floor.  So if it is buried an inch below the floor, if it is indicating 7-800F, the actual temp will be quite higher.  So it is important to know where that temp is being measured.


Offline scott r

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2005, 01:19:56 PM »
that makes a lot of sense.  I was trying to shoot floor temps if I could get the proper angle.  As expected the higher you point on the back wall, the higher the temps would read.  These laser thermometers are only 60 dollars, and are a fun toy to boot.   Just don't point one at a LCD display............oops!!!!

Offline David

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2005, 02:12:04 PM »
You probably notice also Scott that the temperatures on the floor also can vary considerably depending on where the fire is located and where you take a reading.I used my oven for the first time in more than three weeks last night and my Pizzas were a disaster!I just didn't get my oven hot enough as my wife was growing more impatient  for Dinner.I checked the floor temp and it was around 650 in the hottest spot.The top of the dome exceeded 900.The only good thing was how my abundant crop of  Tomatoes slowly dried in the oven overnight.BTW I'm up in Mass. next week so I may get to check out some of your favorite spots in the Boston area,
                                                    David
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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2005, 02:51:25 PM »
Another self builder that is following my advice....

He has also built a frame in cheap board to hel him shape the sandmold on which he will then build the dome...

« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 02:54:29 PM by pizzanapoletana »

Offline Repguy

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2005, 03:53:29 PM »
David,

My point exactly.  So in essence you could say that your oven was 900F when in reality the 650 is more realistic.  Aint semantics grand?

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2005, 07:24:18 PM »
I was trying to shoot floor temps
Scott,

I would say in these very hot ovens that the floor temp has much more impact on the pizza than the ambient temp or heat radiated from the walls or fire. As long as the deck is over 800F and I have a good fire so that heat is being radiated onto the top of the pie, I really don't pay attention to the oven's thermometer whose probe is embedded in the roof of the oven. The heat from the brick below cooks the dough and the heat from the fire arcing up the sides on down onto the top cooks the toppings and colors the edge.  My experience jives with your observations: the hotter the oven, the better the pie. And it is so very easy to overcook. If I take it out when it "looks" done, it is probably overcooked.

Bill/SFNM
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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2005, 06:55:14 PM »
The second guy progression:

Offline Forno Napoletano

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2005, 02:50:47 PM »
Interesting post.

However it is important to point out that the materials and techniques of building a professional Neapolitan oven are the most important thing for its performance.

We, for example, only use the best traditional materials and technique passed on for centuries..

Offline David

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2005, 03:34:09 PM »
Interesting post.

However it is important to point out that the materials and techniques of building a professional Neapolitan oven are the most important thing for its performance.

We, for example, only use the best traditional materials and technique passed on for centuries..


Who are "WE"? What is the address / name of your company?
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