Author Topic: Wood Burning pizza oven  (Read 99240 times)

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Bryan Chitwood

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2005, 03:48:08 PM »
I too am in the process of planning a wood-fired brick outdoor oven for pizza and bread, and this Neapolitan design  and construction process is quite interesting. I ordered a book entitled "The Bread Builders" by Daniel Wing and Alan Scott (Scott is founder of Neapolitan, a company specializing in building wood-fired brick ovens and he sells plans for his ovens, which are evidently well regarded in artisan breadbaking circles). While the book is by and large focused on bread and stoves, there is some ink devoted to pizza making. In addition, the book provides pretty detailed plans for building a Scott oven. An interesting note on his ovens is that he uses a barrel-arch design, which may not be as good as the dome-type, but appears much simpler to build than laying up the brick for a dome. It appears the sand-mold construction might address that challenge.

Instead of building from scratch, I am thinking of converting the 50s style brick barbecue in the backyard into an oven. I'm thinking that if I use fire-bricks to partially fill the existing hearth (up to the level of the support arms), I can lay fire-brick for a heath and then built  a barrel-arch dome over it. I could then build brick walls around the dome to fill with insulation (after insulating the stove itself). I'm considering not filling in the present hearth completely, but instead leaving the bottom portion of it open and connected to the existing chimney. That way I can still have an open fire for aesthetics and warmth during the winter, and it could help to preheat the oven for cooking. The "working" fire would be inside the oven. If get this project off the ground (so to speak), I'll post some pictures and a progress report.

I have found "The Bread Builders" very good reading, along with the excellent material being posted here.

Bryan (DixiePizza)


Bryan Chitwood

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2005, 03:53:16 PM »
Excuse me for the error I just noticed in my posting. Alan Scott is founder of Ovencrafters, his company that designs and build wood-fired brick ovens. By the way, Adelchi, he has built these for many bakeries and restaraunts around the United States, particularly on the West Coast, I believe. His web site lists many of his customers.

Bryan

Offline giotto

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2005, 08:21:27 PM »
Regarding UL concerns with an Italian Wood Burning oven, you may wish to speak to Chef Owner Chrisophe Hille at A16, who studied and was certified in the Naples area, and now produces his wood fired pizza in San Francisco.  Their phone number and site: 415-771-2216, http://www.a16sf.com/Home.html

You may also find Mugnaini useful, a company that specializes in commercial and residential Italian ovens.  You can find their site at http://www.mugnaini.com/index_1.html.  Here's an example of a residential they made for a peer:

(http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/Pizza_Oven.JPG)

Best of luck.
 ::)

« Last Edit: May 29, 2005, 08:53:13 PM by giotto »

Offline skitchmo

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2005, 10:25:06 AM »
Pizzanapoletana,
Even thouth I have "tweaked" the thermostat in my gas oven, pack it full of firebricks and preheat for 2 hours I am so frustrated with my lack of heat I am about to actually build one of these in my backyard. I am therefore in debt for your postings on the subject. If you wouldn't mind I would like your thoughts on a few other details.

1) I see differing opinions on mortar: FronoBravo recomends mortar sand/portland cement/fire clay (whatever that is) but you recomend no cement?

2) How important is the lime over the sand dome template? And if it is important how do you do that?

3) Although I am pretty clear on most of your instructions I am still a little perplexed by the concept of the vent. I undertand it starts in the doorway arch, arcs back over the oven to the apex, and then rises vertically as a chimney. It sounds as if you are suggesting it be about 30 cm wide and it's length up to the central apex of the oven is 60 cm. How tall is it then? How is it formed? If it is just formed by leaving a gap in the brick strucyure of the dome one would need some kind of supporting roof for the vent sice the bricks can only span about 20 cm. And finally how would you transition from the brick vent to the double wall chimney?

My wife and I are just finishing our patio, and I have her permission to now move on to an oven so today I will start on the foundation! Thanks.
Skitchmo

Offline skitchmo

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2005, 12:13:01 AM »
Thank you, I got it. It is such a big vent it was hard to believe, but I will take your word for it. I finished my wife's honey-doo landscaping projects after 3 gruelling days today and I finally started excavating for my oven today, my muscles are killing me! I will post pictures as the project progresses.
Have you seen the http://mha-net.org/docs/v8n2/wildac05b.htm site describing a small commercial "half barrel" shaped pizza oven? How does this shape compare to an actual dome, it looks easier to construct.
Skitchmo

Offline scott r

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2005, 01:26:55 AM »
And I was worried that I was crazy!  I wish these guys lived in my neighborhood.

Offline JAG

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2005, 11:09:21 AM »
I've got this burning question, no pun intended, well maybe.

Could anyone give me a ballpark figure as to how much fuel a large (pizzeria sized)(a la Marco's style) wood burning oven would consume?

Operating parameters being 700-800 deg. F, 10 hrs. a day, using oak or a similar hardwood?

Thanks
JAG

Offline JasonH

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2005, 03:25:03 PM »
I've got this burning question, no pun intended, well maybe.

Could anyone give me a ballpark figure as to how much fuel a large (pizzeria sized)(a la Marco's style) wood burning oven would consume?

Operating parameters being 700-800 deg. F, 10 hrs. a day, using oak or a similar hardwood?

Thanks
JAG

Hello Jag -

I have found that my oven uses roughly a "milk crate" worth of wood per day when utilizing the retained heat from the previous day.

The oven I use is very heat efficient and has a one piece parabolic dome - and the ovens internal size is just under 1 cubic meter (roughly 36in diameter cooking surface X 18in dome height in the center) and has about 1800lbs of thermal refractory material within its walls and floor.

I burn Almond wood exclusively, as it burns about 20% hotter than the others, and is comparably priced to oak - so theoretically over time I use less wood, given the thermal efficiency of Almond. (However, I really don't notice a tremendous savings overall) Then again the oven isn't used in a commercial environment - just for personal use.

Hope this helps.

Jason

Offline skitchmo

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2005, 08:54:38 AM »
I have started on my backyard oven. This is a great project along with the deck and bar-b-que area. I will post pictures as the project progresses.
(http://)
Skitchmo


Offline Trinity

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2005, 10:32:16 AM »
Hello Jag -

I have found that my oven uses roughly a "milk crate" worth of wood per day when utilizing the retained heat from the previous day.

The oven I use is very heat efficient and has a one piece parabolic dome - and the ovens internal size is just under 1 cubic meter (roughly 36in diameter cooking surface X 18in dome height in the center) and has about 1800lbs of thermal refractory material within its walls and floor.

I burn Almond wood exclusively, as it burns about 20% hotter than the others, and is comparably priced to oak - so theoretically over time I use less wood, given the thermal efficiency of Almond. (However, I really don't notice a tremendous savings overall) Then again the oven isn't used in a commercial environment - just for personal use.

Hope this helps.

Jason


A milk crate... :o

Is that really true?
It's an Earth food. They are called Swedish meatballs. It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.

Offline JasonH

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2005, 07:25:18 AM »
Hello Trinity -
Yeah,  I go through roughly a milk crate worth of wood for a 10 hour burn - somehow that doesn't seem like a lot to me, but perhaps maybe milk crates are smaller for us "softies" here in Southern California 8). I can best describe the amount as using two of those "store bought" bundles of firewood they sell in the supermarkets for a better volume comparison.
Jason

Offline Trinity

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2005, 07:59:50 AM »
Thats really efficient. I would have thought it would take a lot more to maintain such a hi temp.
It's an Earth food. They are called Swedish meatballs. It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.

Offline bigbubba33156

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2005, 07:43:49 PM »
What type of stone do i use for a wood burning oven?????

Offline Pizzella Pizzerria

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2005, 12:09:41 PM »
pizzanapoletana,
Again you have opened my eyes to what is truly possible and right in the world of pizza. Thank you for sharing. The spector of dangerous toxicity levels of coal is enough to change my mind.

How then might you suggest I utilize this mason who specializes in wood & coal ovens to build a "perfect" wood burning pizza oven capable of fully baking a pizza in 90 seconds or less?

the pies take 3 mins at anthony's, i work there.

Offline giotto

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2005, 03:22:42 PM »
Here in the states, I suspect different materials will be employed.  What type of material and at what thickness will you employ to provide a safe-to-touch heat enclosure for 800F - 900F internal temps (e.g., brick, cinder or concrete blocks around sand)?  Regarding the salerno bricks, will you be using fire brick instead, and what different material have you decided on for the bottom to ensure less temps than the rest of the enclosure?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 08:03:39 PM by giotto »

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2005, 06:42:51 AM »
Giotto

Why are you saying that the floor need less temperature then the rest of the enclosure (dome??)?

A Neapolitan oven has a very low dome and therefore high  "sky" temperature and needs a strong floor to balance that.

skitchmo

How is your building work progressing?

Any picture to share?

Ciao

Offline giotto

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2005, 07:00:32 AM »
pizzanapoletana

I've seen the variation here and I noticed the opposite variation in VPN temps (listed out at Forno Bravo) listed as:

- Cooking surface temperature: 485C about.

- Oven dome temperature: 430C about.

Good to know its not a problem with your design.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 07:14:05 AM by giotto »


Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2005, 04:51:58 PM »
Thnaks for clarifying.

I am quite sure that the listed temperature are not accurate.

Anyway, It is not my design, but it is the true neapolitan oven design as well as passed on since 1700's.

Offline giotto

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2005, 06:57:18 PM »
Thank you for the correction.  I had meant to give you the spec anyways.  The numbers to give a uniform pizza in 60-90 seconds are under "5) Cooking."  A cooking temperature is given (495C or 905F), and then the breakout I extracted: http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_napoletana/VPN_spec.html





Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2005, 08:48:16 PM »
I know the document very well.

I was the one complaining to the Italian ministry to modify part of it and in fact they did and the latest version (in Italian) has been modified.

There are still few mistakes, however you need to understand that the document is meant to be a guideline not a recipe.

Ciao

Offline skitchmo

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2005, 10:43:44 AM »
Pizzanapoletana,
My work is progressing slowly since I am also doing a deck simultaneously. There is also this pesky problem of also working (so I can afford to by concrete, firebricks etc). Here is a pic of the excavation:
(http://)
I have finally come to terms (designwise) for your specs on vent size and would like to post a picture of my "mock up" soon or your review, if you wouldn't mind. Thanks,
Skitchmo

Offline giotto

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2005, 10:41:25 PM »
Nice job on the site!  Very easy to navigate with clear efficiency in mind when reviewing products and other topics. 

I noticed the smoke stack in the back... I was under the impression it was to be near the front.  What is the weight of the mobile design and availability/approx cost for the states? 

Offline brazilian pizza

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2005, 04:38:09 PM »
Dear  pizzanapoletana

I m going to build a pizza oven in my house and your draw oppened my eyes.
I d like to know if can i build my oven using only reflatory concrete like the casa oven.

tks.

Brazilian pizza

Offline brazilian pizza

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2005, 03:16:45 PM »
OK.

i m not sure if my bricks will resist high temperature. i got it easily, but i realy don t know.
What about granite bricks? it s possibile? I got some of 20cmX10cmX5cm.
at least. can i use any kind of clay bricks or only reflactory? help me please.
I m in doubt cause i got a lot of option in my city.


tks :D

Offline Lithium

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Re: Wood Burning pizza oven
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2005, 09:51:26 PM »
Hello all,
Well I wish I found this site earlier, you all have a lot of good information here. If any of you have the time, I would like some advice on my wood burining pizza oven. I recently completed a wood burring pizza/bread oven based on the “The Bread Builders Book” which was very useful. The oven works great under certain circumstances, but I am having a few problems, which you all can shed some light on. First, here is an overview of my oven, with pictures and the build process: http://www.lithiums.com/pizza/index.html . Any comments on design flaws that you see form the picture would be useful before I build my next one. You can see I am not a skilled mason, but it was a great learning process and it is very strong, just not pretty.

The oven works great if I can get a nice strong fire to stay burning for several hours, and when I start cooking, the first few pizzas are nice and crisp on the bottom and cook in 2-3 minutes, but then hearth starts cooling off relatively quickly (from 800deg to about 400deg) when the fire dies down. I feel my biggest problem is the moisture in the wood, and not being able to maintain a small fire in the back while I am cooking, (I think because of the moisture from living in Florida?). Because of this, I am thinking about using charcoal for maybe it is easier to keep burning and to move around, or is it toxic in an oven like this. Would this work or is it a bad idea, or do I just need to buy properly seasoned/dry fire wood instead of chopping my own wood? Anyway, if anyone has tips on how to best heat an oven like this for ~2 hour cooking sessions, please let me know because I am currently having to re-establish a large fire for several minutes in between pizzas to re-heat the bottom. I am confused because as the pictures show, I have a large amount of thermal mass and insulation. Thanks.

~Shea~


 

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