Author Topic: Attempting my first white pizza  (Read 4774 times)

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brayshaw

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Attempting my first white pizza
« on: June 23, 2010, 10:23:06 AM »
Hi,

I have some 6 day old doughs in the fridge and tonight I am going to make a white pizza and I was hoping some of you guys would point me towards a good sauce recipe to try.
I am also going to make a standard red sauce for another pizza, I have pictures to post from my last pizzas so I will post them all together so you can see the difference between a 1day old dough and a 6day old dough.

Cheers,

Paul
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 10:38:35 AM by brayshaw »


Offline norma427

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 12:17:20 PM »
Paul,

When I was trying different kinds of white pizzas, many members gave me ideas on this thread.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10213.msg89532.html#msg89532

There were some I didn't have time to try as of this date, but my personal favorite is the Buffalo White Chicken Pizza with Bacon. 

I'm sure other members will give you more ideas of their favorites.

Norma
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brayshaw

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 12:25:59 PM »
Thanks Norma, I will have a read of your thread.
Hope you are well.

Paul

Offline norma427

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 12:30:43 PM »
Thanks Norma, I will have a read of your thread.
Hope you are well.

Paul

Paul,

I am well, thanks.  Best of luck in trying a white pizza.  :)  They are delicious in my opinion.  There is a good garlic recipe for a white pizza at PMQTT that I have tried.  I did post before on that link, but don't remember where it is.  If you want that link, let me know, I will look for it.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 12:49:02 PM »
Paul,

This is the link to the garlic white sauce at PMQTT.  In my opinion it was great.

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8804&p=59860&hilit=garlic+white+sauce#p59842

Norma
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brayshaw

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 02:37:26 PM »
Ok, I have made a white sauce and it has the consistency of a loose mayo, do I need to add more cream to thin it a bit? It will be baked in my home oven for around 8minutes.

Thanks guys,

Paul

Offline norma427

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 04:42:47 PM »
Ok, I have made a white sauce and it has the consistency of a loose mayo, do I need to add more cream to thin it a bit? It will be baked in my home oven for around 8minutes.

Thanks guys,

Paul

Paul,

When I made different white sauces, the consistency was like a loose mayonnaise that was then spread on the skin.  Maybe other members can help you, as to what their white sauces were like.

Norma
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 07:00:38 PM »
Paul,

This is the link to the garlic white sauce at PMQTT.  In my opinion it was great.

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8804&p=59860&hilit=garlic+white+sauce#p59842

Norma


Thanks for posting that recipe Norma.  Looks good.  I'll give it a try in the next couple of days.

brayshaw

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2010, 03:28:44 AM »
Cheers Norma, I will give that one a try for sure!  ;D

Paul

Offline norma427

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2010, 06:16:20 AM »
Paul and Jackie Tran,

Welcome to both of you, and this is the pizza I tried that garlic white sauce on, if you are interested in looking at it.  It was the Bittman’s Matzo Pizza I made.  Reply# 39

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10703.msg95463.html#msg95463

and pictures Reply# 40 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10703.msg95464.html#msg95464

Norma
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brayshaw

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2010, 06:19:48 AM »
I am at work at the moment so I will post pictures tonight but I just wanted to say I cannot believe the difference between a 1day cold ferment dough and a 6day, I didn't notice much difference in flavour but the texture was sooooooo much better IMO, air filled/very very light and wonderful crunch/chew.
It has got me thinking, when I open my business it isn't really practical to have 6 fridges on the go... do any of you know of independant pizza operators with really long cold ferments?
I think I read that Terry did a 2day dough to start with but then scaled back to 1day (I could be wrong though)

In an ideal world I would like lots of fridges so I can give the dough a royal cold ferment!  :-D

Paul

Offline norma427

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2010, 06:31:44 AM »
I am at work at the moment so I will post pictures tonight but I just wanted to say I cannot believe the difference between a 1day cold ferment dough and a 6day, I didn't notice much difference in flavour but the texture was sooooooo much better IMO, air filled/very very light and wonderful crunch/chew.
It has got me thinking, when I open my business it isn't really practical to have 6 fridges on the go... do any of you know of independant pizza operators with really long cold ferments?
I think I read that Terry did a 2day dough to start with but then scaled back to 1day (I could be wrong though)

In an ideal world I would like lots of fridges so I can give the dough a royal cold ferment!  :-D

Paul


Paul,

I also noticed the difference in long cold ferments.  I had limited cooler space at market.  That is why I went on the journey to find some kind of dough that would taste like a longer cold ferment.  That is how I ended up with the preferment for the Lehmann dough.  It too, does have nice bubbles in the dough and a different flavor than a one day ferment.  I make the poolish on Friday, let it bubble, then cold ferment the poolish until Monday, do the final mix, then cold ferment for one day.  I don't know how that would work out in your situation though.  I am only making pizza one day a week, so it works out in my special situation. 

I read about what other pizza businesses are doing, but am not sure how they go about using starters or other methods for longer cold ferments .

Norma
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brayshaw

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2010, 06:47:37 AM »
Thanks for that Norma, have you tried a really long cold ferment dough? I think the thing that suprised me most was how light the crust was.

Thanks for all you help btw, you always take time to reply to my posts as do many others.

Paul

Offline norma427

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2010, 07:11:27 AM »
Thanks for that Norma, have you tried a really long cold ferment dough? I think the thing that suprised me most was how light the crust was.

Thanks for all you help btw, you always take time to reply to my posts as do many others.

Paul


Paul,

Yes, I did try long cold ferments.  This is one I tried with Peter's help and was under the New KitchenAid Dough Making Method starting at reply #162 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg83936.html#msg83936 and going though the posts until Reply #262 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg89696.html#msg89696

I was then trying to see if I could use a long cold ferment in making pizza for my small stand.

If you are interested in what happened it will keep you reading for awhile.   :-D  The whole experiment along with other members were 100 posts.

Norma
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 07:14:24 AM by norma427 »
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brayshaw

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2010, 08:08:55 AM »
Thanks for the links Norma, I will have a good read later. ;D

I also want to add that the 6 day dough seemed to brown a lot easier than my usual 1 day dough in my home oven. Anyone else found that?

Paul
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 08:13:23 AM by brayshaw »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2010, 08:33:29 AM »
Thx for the pics Norma, I'm making the sauce tonight. I've made white pizzas before but have always used the jarred Alfredo sauce. I'm looking forward to making this one fresh. Paul I think the desired consistency is really up to you.  Keep in mind, sauce will thin a bit more as it bakes and then thicken a bit as it cools. I would think a consistency of a thin mayo is good. Not any thinner than the consistency of pizza sauce for neopolitan pies. That's pretty thin.

As far as cold ferments go, in my earlier experiments I didn't have the same experience as you. Yes they'll add more flavor to commercial yeasted doughs and can even give you a real sourdough after 4 days, but that's too sour for me.  I didn't notice the textural change you speak of but that could've been due to many factors.  One of which was my inconsistent dough methods along with the many variables I would be changing at one time.

I did feel like my long cold fermented dough would always taste a bit drier than fresh dough but again maybe due to my over kneading.  That dryness could also be due to my high altitude environment as well, I'm not sure.   

For flavor now, I use starters and up the percentage. I can get the equivalent of a long cold ferment in a day or less by varying the amount of starter.  This helps me avoid any dryness issues and I still get a "fresh" same day dough. It's harder to work with increase amounts of starters at room temps though as it is very easy to get overfermented doughs.  I currently working on compiling a time table .

Yes a longer fermented dough will improve texture and crust coloration. An overfermented dough as I've learned can burn very quickly as well.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 08:53:34 AM by Jackie Tran »

brayshaw

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2010, 08:41:03 AM »
Thanks for that 'Jackie Tran' (love the new name) :-D I would love to have 6 pizzas side-by-side 1-6 day doughs so I could see/taste the differences.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 08:42:34 AM by brayshaw »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2010, 09:00:01 AM »
 ;D.  That would be a good experiment to do.  If you are serious about doing the experiment, it would be nice to take photos of the crumb and finished crust color along with a description of the taste and texture of the crust. 

I would start by making a one ball batch and cold ferment for 6 days.  Then make another ball each following day to the last day and then bake them up all consecutively in the same bake.  That way you can taste the pies back to back and do multiple taste tests. 

Paul do you have time for this challenge?  ;)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 02:01:30 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline scott123

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2010, 09:11:35 AM »
Paul,

This is the link to the garlic white sauce at PMQTT.  In my opinion it was great.

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8804&p=59860&hilit=garlic+white+sauce#p59842

Norma


Norma, I'm sure that when you made this sauce, it was great, but, the chemistry is such that there's a pretty good possibility that on another occasion, it won't be as good. Cream cheese is one of the least stable cheeses you can buy.  If you bring it anywhere near a boil, the chances are good it will liquefy.  In recent years, they've been adding more and more stabilizers to cream cheese, so it's a little more hearty (some brands are more stable than others), but, for the most part, it doesn't like heat. If you add milk to the equation, there's a good chance the milk will curdle.  Some people have a greater tolerance to watery and sour curdled sauces than others, but, generally speaking, curdled sauces are impalatable.

Cream cheese should never be used to thicken any sauce that will be heated.  It's just too much of a crap shoot.  Traditional Italian American alfredo is just half and half, parm (preferably reggiano), and butter. The parm provides plenty of thickening to the already slightly thick half and half. The butterfat in the half and half helps prevent curdling as well.  In a pizza setting, though, the butterfat in the sauce can get a little heavy combined with the fat in the mozzarella.  For an alfredo going onto a pizza, I'd probably go with a traditional bechamel, using flour, milk and a little butter for the roux.

JT, canning involves pretty high temps. When milk is involved it produces a lot of cooked milk flavors.  The sugar in condensed milk acts as a preservative, requiring lower temps, so condensed milk is not so bad, but evaporated milk because of it's brownish tint and off flavors is kind of an acquired taste.  Since alfredo is so easy to make fresh and about a million times better than canned, canned alfredo is one of those products that should always be shunned.

brayshaw

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Re: Attempting my first white pizza
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2010, 09:13:01 AM »
I'm sure I can make time to try this... lol
The only thing is my home oven is so rubbish that it will lose so much heat by time the last pizza bakes, I am hoping to be set-up with my business inside the next 2 months so do you think I should wait so I can blast them all at the same time in a proper pizza oven?

Norma
I'm not sure how busy you are, but if you get the chance do you think you could perform the experiment in your pizza oven at the market? No problem if not though, I will definitly do it when I get setup.

Paul


 

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