Author Topic: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?  (Read 7890 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2010, 07:34:01 AM »

Jackie Tran,

One of the reasons if still wonders me if baking at higher temperatures really do contribute to oven spring is because I have experimented with my same dough, in different ways.  Like I mentioned before, I sure donít know and will keep on experimenting.  :-\  If you are interested in looking at these pictures, you can see different ways I used this same dough and got good oven spring by using different methods.  Just something to think about.  There werenít any variables in the dough, just different methods to fry or bake the dough.

Panouzzo made from same dough and baked in my home oven on the baking stone at 500 degrees F.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg96100.html#msg96100

Zeppoles deep-fried with same dough at 365 degrees F.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg99183.html#msg99183

Hamburger buns fried in butter in cast iron skillet on the stove from same dough

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg98641.html#msg98641

Pizzette pizza men deep-fried at 350 degrees F from the same dough.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg99682.html#msg99682

Norma
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Offline Bob1

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2010, 07:45:37 AM »
Tran,
Just a side note.  My C B R D was cooked on a 1/2" 17x 17 fibrament laid on top of a 1/2 " stone that came with the bakers pride P18 oven.    http://www.bakerspride.com/products-hearthbake-e.asp.  I have two stones for the Bakers Pride and a third special cut for my conventional oven.  " I love Fibrament" Maybe the heat transfer on the stone in combination with hydration, flour strength, tightness of the gluten, height above sea level, specific gravity of the sauce, and weight of the toppings all come into play.  Notice the C B R D only has a light sauce with light Parmesan, and the results may be amplified.  I am also at 300 feet above sea level.  My water boils close to 212 F.  I have read that you should add 2 minutes cook time for every 1000' of elevation, or lose close to 1 degree for every 550 feet ASL.  I would think there is a lot more energy in 212 degree steam as opposed to 200 degree steam.

Bob

Norma,
Oops, I see you posted while I was writing.  I agree with the elevation being a great factor.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 07:48:11 AM by Bob1 »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2010, 08:57:17 AM »
Thanks for the links and photos Norma.  I'll go through them today.  Do you use the exact same formulation week after week.  Everything is the same?  Same % of yeast (preferment), same fermentation times, etc.  The only thing you vary is what you make with the dough correct?  Thank you for all the work you have put in and thanks for sharing the info.  It is really informative!

Bob thanks for posting your experience using Fibrament.  I have not use it and have no opinion of it. I have heard that many folks are happy with theirs.  I agree that elevation may have a huge role in oven spring.  I unfortunately do not have the experience or knowledge to delve into that subject.  I only know the very general affects of it from googling it.  I have posted inquiries about the effects of high altitude on crust rise many times before without much response.  I live at 5000+ feet elevation and a very arid climate.  No doubt that has a big effect on my pizza making.  If you are right about a 212F steam being stronger than a 202F steam, then oven temps should have a bigger effect at sea level than at high altitudes.  Great!  makes the water even muddier!  :-D

Again, temperature is only one of so many factors in producing ovenspring.  I think if we were to try to experiment with all the factors individually we could be at it for years and this thread would get so long, it would turn most folks away.   After my initial result from 1 experiment, it honestly wouldn't bother me to let the subject rest.  I'm doing todays experiment b/c I have free time and it's peaked my curiosity, knowing full well that temp only is one player in the game. 

I suspect that I may not get results too different from my initial findings but want to satisfy my own and other's curiosity.   Again, no matter the results, it's only 1 factor of many that affects oven spring.  From my own experience i feel that amount of yeast, especially commercial yeast and overall % of fermentation of the dough have bigger effects on oven spring than temperature does.  I don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way with that comment, but in the few pies I've made, that's what I've noticed. 

(While typing this, I'm keeping in mind that Norma and others have produced "some" oven spring without using yeast at all).

Chau
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 04:14:00 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline norma427

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2010, 09:12:26 AM »
Jackie Tran,

You donít have to go though the links.  They are just pictures of different things I did with the same dough, but using it different ways in baking or frying.  I use the exact same formula for all these pictures in the same thread. Yeast, flour, salt, IDY, and hydration are all the same. I donít vary how I make this dough. The final dough temperature is the same in a amount of a couple of degrees.  I ferment the poolish in a heated proofing box for about an hour or less until it bubbles, then cold ferment the poolish for 3 days.  Add to final mix after three days, then weigh, ball and let the dough cold ferment for one more day.  Sometimes if I have leftover dough, then I use it for experiments, after I have frozen it.

I also agree that many factors could come into play with oven spring.  Will be interesting to see your results from today.

Norma
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2010, 09:34:02 AM »
I hope for a good showing as well however I'm a little nervous about the bake.   I decided last night that I would revisit nearlypolitan pies since I feel I have worked out most of the kinks in the MBE now.

Being that it would be a neapolitan pie today I mixed up a batch of dough last night using starter instead of ADY like I have been lately with my New-politan pies.  Since I had the scale and the working bench out and floured I decided that I would also mix up the doughs for today's experiment. 

So right off the bat, I'm dealing with a slightly different dough.  Same formulation as the above pies but with the following changes.  Con Agra HG flour was used this time instead of All Trumps.  The biggest change is using ~2.5% starter instead of 1%ADY.   I'm also room temp (76F)fermenting this dough for 10 hours now.  I had estimated it to be ready within 8-10 hours.  It is 10 hours now and the dough doesn't look really poofy.  It doesn't looked doubled either. 

If I poke it with my finger, the indent does spring back about 60% or so and leaves a small indent.  Does anyone else poke their dough as a sign of readiness?  I'm not quite sure if using this test, I'm suppose to not get any spring back or just a tiny amount. 

I think I will let the dough rise a few more hours and hopefully it's still usuable. 

« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 04:15:57 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2010, 10:05:23 AM »
So here are a few challenges I faced with this experiment so far.  So in this experiment I will be testing 2 variables side by side.  Hydration ratios and oven temps and their effects on oven spring.

I first had a goal of making a 65% vs a 75% dough.  Using my usual hand kneading technique, my normal HR is around 73-76%.  I knew ahead of time that making a 65% hydrated dough by hand would be a challenge for me.  So I premeasure the flour for the low hydration dough and attempted to work it all in.
I couldn't get all the flour in.  At some point it was feeling really dry to me and I felt that if I forced more flour in, I would definitely have to overwork the dough.  I was really wanting to avoid overkneading as I felt it could potentially throw off the experiment.  Once I got as much flour as I reasonably could in, I calculated the HR to be 69%.   :(  not really low for a low hydration dough but that's what I got.

I then made the high hydration dough and this time purposely made a much wetter dough than I normally work with to try and create an appreciable gap b/t the 2 hydration ratios.   I wasn't worried about opening this wet dough later as I would be making small round boules and not pizzas.  The higher hydrated ball ended up being 78%.   So I'm satisfied with a 9% difference.  If it makes a big difference in ovenspring, I suspect we will see it at the higher temp bake.  All doughballs were at 97gms each.  I'm planning to bake these at around 300 vs 700 hearth temps (taken in the center of the MBE through the lid vent). 

So after checking on the balls this morning, the higher hydrated balls had flattened out quite a bit while the LH balls only flattened a bit.  I ended up reballing the HH balls just so they would be the same size as the LH balls.  Yes I know that reballing = kneading = strengthens gluten BUT the LH balls had gotten more knead time to begin with so this should even things out a bit more in the knead time department. 

Here's what the doughballs look like.  Red = lower hydration (69%)  Green = HH (78%)
Pic 1 after kneading and balling.
Pic 2 after about 8 hours rest at room temps
Pic 3 after reballing the green ones and redusting. 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 04:21:07 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2010, 12:37:04 PM »
Ok results are in.  First bake was the low hydration (LH) dough.  I initially wanted to bake this at 350F, but the lowest I could get the MBE was 400F.  Even with the lid off for a bit and stone temps below 300, once the lid went back on temps rose fairly quickly back to 400F. 

I decided to make these as round bread boules rather than stretch and topp as I feel this shape would give a better visual representation of the spring and crumb.  The dough balls were 97gm each and flattened to about 3.5".

Low temp bake
Pic 1 Prebake (red = LH of 69%) Green (HH of 78%)
Pic 2 after 2 min (HH is slightly higher)
Pic 3 after 3.5min (HH dough is visually higher and has just domed against the top)
Pic 4 after 5min bake (LH has also domed in the 4:_ time frame)
Pic 5 post bake

This LH bread was baked for another 2 min with no further change in oven spring b/c both had domed already.

Dome height is 2".

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2010, 12:44:47 PM »
B/c the low temp doughs domed, I decided to flatten out the high temp doughballs a bit more but that didn't seem to make a difference.  I baked these at 750+ 3mins.

Pic 1 prebake.  I had to hand stretch the LH (red) ball a bit while I didn't have to mess with the HH ball much.  I also put a marker on them so I wouldn't accidentally mix them up with the others.
Pic 2 after 1 min (HH dough visually higher here)
Pic 3 after 2 min (both had domed around the 1.5m mark)
Pic 4 Post bake.  Bread pulled after 3min 30 seconds. 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2010, 12:58:22 PM »
First let's take a look at how temps affect crumb structure and overall spring.

Pic 1 LH dough baked at low temps (left) vs high temps (right)
Pic 2 HH dough baked at low temps (Left) vs HTs (right)

Visually the crumb of both the low vs high temps don't look that different.  The higher temps do have bigger voids.   The higher temp doughs did dome sooner.   I wasn't able to forsee that both doughballs at both temps would dome so with this test we can't see overall spring.  All we can see is that both balls at low and high temps demostrate great oven spring.  Had there not been a ceiling, I believe that the higher temp bakes would have produce a greater oven spring.  Would it have been a signifcantly greater spring?  I can't say with any surety.  I don't think so, but bigger yes. 

Texture wise, the higher temp bake did produce a lighter crumb.  Was it signficantly lighter - No.  Maybe 10-20% max if I'm guessing (which I am).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 01:05:07 PM by Jackie Tran »


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2010, 01:11:12 PM »
Now for a look at how hydration levels affect crumb structure and overall oven spring.  Again we are comparing a 69% HR dough to a 78% HR dough.

Pic 1 LH vs HH with the Low temp bake (400F)
Pic 2 another crumb shot of LH vs HH with low temp bake.
Pic 3 LH vs HH at high temp bakes (750)
Pic 4 another shot of LH vs HH at High temp

Again b/c of the low ceiling and doming effect we can't fairly judge over all oven spring.  I can only guess that there would have been a slight difference when baking at higher temps.  I'm not so sure about lower temps though b/c it took around 4+ mins for both pies to dome.  By then I think the dough would have set already. 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2010, 01:22:15 PM »
Tentative conclusions  ;D .  I'm gonna say that I was wrong again on 2 counts.  Hydration ratios and temps do affect oven spring.  But do they affect it significantly within the boundaries of pizza making?  Ummm - I'm not so sure.  I would have to say (IMO) they don't have a big impact on pizza making.  Meaning that at temps of 500-700F and at hydration ratios of 65-75%, the difference is not much.   

Visually the crumbs b/t the low hydration low temp bake was different from the high hydration high temp bake, but was it significant?  Hard to say here without being subjective.  Maybe a 20% difference? 
I was fairly surprise to see that the difference in crumb structure b/t the LH and HH doughs were not as different as I had thought it would be. 

Texture wise, the LH dough both low and high temps were definitely denser. Was it a lot denser? No, but it was noticeable.  The best tasting was the High hydration and high temp bake.  It had the lightest texture of the bunch but it wasn't significantly lighter.  Objectively - NO,  subjectlively - Yes.  Yes, b/c in my world of perfect pizza crust, this small difference does amount to a significant difference in the end experience.

Moistness - again I was surprise here to see that the HH dough was not really any more moist than the 69% dough.   It was lighter, but was it moister?  Not by much if any. 

Ok comments and reactions?



« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 01:42:50 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline norma427

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2010, 01:53:43 PM »
Jackie Tran,

Your experimenting were interesting to me.  At a difference in the baking of about 200 degrees F and also different hydration levels, it was interesting to see what happened. 

I also will continue to watch and see what happens with my dough. 

Thanks for the experiments,

Norma
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2010, 04:34:24 PM »
Thanks Norma.  The difference in temp was more like 350 degrees.

As a side note: I have mentioned this before and will do again.  I have never thought that the temps in my MBE is even across the hearth.  It's definitely hotter around the perimeter where the hot air rises.

The interesting thing about these 2 experiments is that I could get relatively the same oven spring (over time) baking at 400F vs 750 in the MBE.  Which goes to show how important that top heat is.  I can guarantee you I haven't gotten oven spring like this in the home oven, even with hearth temps of 700F.  My home oven just doesn't give me good even top and bottom heat.

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2010, 06:33:17 PM »
Fibrament's Experiment

Fibrament is a pretty poor conductor, but it's not as bad as quarry tiles. Well, as Jeff V proved by his quarry tile experiment, Fibrament is better than some quarry tiles, but not others.  I have a theory that some brands of quarry tiles are more porous, and where you have air you have poor conductivity. Bottom line, unless Fibrament is lying about the experiment (and I don't think they are) the tile they used WAS a poorer conductor than the Fibrament.  Heat IS heat.  A poorer conductor at a higher temperature will transfer the same amount of energy to dough as a higher conductor at a lower temperature.  Fibrament's experiment reveals what's been known in the breadmaking community for hundreds of years.  The faster you can transfer energy to dough, be it by using a higher temperature or a more conductive stone, the better the oven spring. You may notice that Fibrament doesn't show any tests comparing it to other materials.  That's because it would lose.

I'll try to thin the rim out next time I do this test.

What happened, Chau? ;D

Water takes a tremendous amount of energy to change phases (liquid to gas). Dough contains a lot of water.  As you increase the thickness of the dough, that's that much water that has to boil before it can become steam and do it's oven spring magic. As you go thinner with the dough, the impact of energy transfer (oven temp and conductivity) increases dramatically.

If you look at the high temp crumbs, the voids are noticeably larger. You'll also notice that the high temp (and high hydration) crumbs have greater stress fractures on the skin (revealing greater internal steam pressure). This is why bread is scored pre-baking- scoring  cuts the faster setting, constricting top layer of dough, which allows for greater expansion.  As you go thinner, scoring isn't necessary because there's much less disparity between the inner and outer dough temps so the rim expands much more evenly (and far faster). I think the most telling aspect of this experiment is that the only ball that didn't split was the low hydration, low temp one.

You have to go thinner, Chau. As you go thinner, the results will become much more dramatic.  'At temps of 500-700F and at hydration ratios of 65-75%' the differences will be very discernible with relatively thin (Neapolitan/Street/Elite) dough.


Regarding the difficulty you're having mixing low hydration dough, speed is important.  I haven't paid attention to what your dough method is as of late, but if it's not straight (all ingredients mixed at once), it should be for lower hydration.  Staggering will let some of the flour hydrate- once that happens, forget getting all the flour assimilated.  Even going with a straight dough method involves some fancy footwork.  Adding dry to wet helps. I've also found that quickly slicing the combined ingredients (in a star pattern) helps to let the water get into the flour without too much gluten forming.  After slicing, I then mix it quickly.   After it's come together a bit, I'll then knead it by hand in the bowl, then transfer it to the bench and knead it some more.  I find kneading it in a bowl first creates for a much cleaner bowl and a much cleaner bench. The most important aspect of the whole process, though, is speed, once water meets flour, you have a few seconds of wetness, but after that, the flour sucks it right up.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 06:35:46 PM by scott123 »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2010, 07:18:33 PM »
You want me to repeat the experiment? Really Scott??  :-X I may do that down the road but right now I seriously need a break from pizza making. But then again I know I've said that before.

2 reasons why I didn't go thinner. 1) I forgot I even said that and 2) I stated that I decided at the last minute to make bread as I felt it would give a more fair and better visual result. I was hoping that we could see overall spring differences but didn't foresee the doming effect happening.  Also I didn't trust my stretching technique to produce comparable thickness in rims.  I wanted a flat rim so that we could really see a difference but everytime I stretch pizza dough, I seem to not be able to avoid leaving some small rim in place.  I had briefly considered rolling the skins out but that would limit crust rise so instead I opted to make the bread. 

« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 09:01:28 PM by Jackie Tran »

scott123

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2010, 07:46:23 PM »
No, Chau, I'm not saying you have to repeat the experiment.  I'm just saying that in order to produce results that are easier to discern, the thickness factor is critical. Even though the thickness mitigated discernability, I still think there's enough evidence there to prove both hydration's and heat's considerable impact on oven spring.

Look at the split crust one more time.  What force could be acting upon the dough to make it split in such a manner?  I'm telling you, it's not yeast.  It's steam.  As you look at the tops of the rolls (and to an extent, the crumb), the impact of heat and water are clearly evident.

LH Low Temp (LT) - no splitting
HH LT - a little splitting
LH HT - more splitting
HH HT - the most splitting
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 07:50:51 PM by scott123 »

Offline Chet

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2010, 08:00:52 PM »


  I am following this topic a little, now I am not an expert at this pizza making with only 4 yrs under my belt, I will say that yesterdays pizza was the same recipe I have been using with one exception I lowered the hydration from 67% to 65% it probably does not mean alot, but the oven spring was better at 67% than 65% and ever since we got this new oven I am able to bake at higher temps, and someone ask if higher temps help oven spring, I say yes and I agree with what Scott is saying about the steam.


   Chet


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2010, 08:31:47 PM »
Scott, I'm not disagreeing that these 2 factors do have an impact, I'm just not convinced yet that the impact is that appreciable or significant (alongside all the other unnamed factors that affect crust rise).  But as you have been right so many times before I will take your word on it. Like I said before, my goal in doing this was just to learn about the effects and I believe that I have. Im not trying to disprove physics or the laws of nature here.  Regardless of what I think though, I'm not changing my regimen for perfect pizza either: that's high hydration and relatively high heat. This little test is actually giving me confidence to lower the heat by 50deg from 700 to 650 to increase rim crunchiness without the fear of losing much crust rise.

Thank you for the straight mix regimen for a low hydration dough. I will definitely give it a try, so I may be repeating this test sooner than I expect. :)  Scott, should I sauce and cheese the test pies as well or is just stretching it ultra thin sufficient.  Another reason I was hesitant to make pizzas is b/c when I stretch by hand I almost can not help but leave a little rim.  I know some members are able to stretch the skin thin without leaving a rim but that is something that is hard for me to do.

Chet - do you have any pictures to show us what you talking about here?  Does anyone else have any pictures we can look at to show a significant difference in pizza crust rise with a temperature and/or hydration difference assuming all other factors are the same?  ???

Chau
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 08:58:12 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Chet

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2010, 09:18:17 PM »
  Jackie

  If you look at my pizza's from last week and this week, you can see the spring difference quite noticeably.


    Chet

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2010, 09:33:44 PM »
Chet are you referring to these pies here?
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11358.msg103321.html#msg103321
Reply #3
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11388.msg103831.html#msg103831

If so I can see what you mean.  A few questions?  Are both pies about the same weight in Gms?  Do you remember weighing them out or is there a size that you always make, like say 300gm? So the difference in hydration ratio is a mere 2%?  I posted about the inaccuracies of calculating hydration ratios here.  Reply #4
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11346.0.html
I can easily use up 1-2gm of bench flour and if that isn't calculated in it can easily throw off your HR by 1%.  I assume you treat all your doughs the same, meaning you tend to use the same amount of bench flour but still, I'm a bit skeptical that a 2% difference would show such a big difference in the end result.  I'm skeptical b/c i couldn't show the same result today with a 9% HR difference.  But again, I made bread and you made pizza so I'm comparing apples and oranges here. 

In the first link, you show us some of your dough balls in the proofing box.  I see different size doughballs.  Can you be sure you didn't use different size doughballs for the above pies?  If those aren't the ones you are referring to, can you post the links for me so I can see what you are talking about?

2ndly, do you always stretch the dough out leaving approximately the same size rim?  I think that I usually stretch leaving approximately the same size rim, but how can I be sure?  That's why I opted to make the round bread disk.  You can measure diameter and thickness. 

I know you said in one of those threads that you didn't take a crumb shot, but a crumb shot here would help drive the point home.

Also test pies should have the same sauce and toppings just to keep things fair.  I know you didn't make those pies with this test in mind and I also know that my first test pies were sauce differently.  Yet another reason why I went with the straight dough bake.  Sorry to be picky but to get to the bottom of this we have to be.  I'm sure you understand.   ;)

We need more submissions folks...

Chau
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 09:44:18 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Chet

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2010, 09:03:50 AM »
  Jackie

   the dough balls I make are only 2 weights, a 300gram for the Neo pies and a 22oz ball for Sicilian type and as for the pic it would be this week vs last week.

this week http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11388.msg103831.html#msg103831


  and last weeks http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11359.0.html


   Chet

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2010, 10:53:50 AM »
Chet those pies look good.  I wouldn't call it a significant difference but I DO see the difference though and I also know that pictures can look very different from seeing in person so I will take your word on that.  The first definitely looks to have more of the bigger voids or at least I think that's what I'm seeing.  So everything is the same just a 2% hydration difference? 

Thanks for posting the link.  I'm really interested in trying Scott's quick knead method for a lower hydration dough.  It would be a first for me.  I think if I lower my hydration by 5%, it would actually improve my pizza. 

JT
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 10:55:28 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2010, 10:05:58 AM »
Repeated the experiment last night using Scott's quick straight knead method for the low hydration dough.  Happy to say I was able to easily mix a 65% hydration ratio dough for the test.   So the test was a 65% vs 75% dough baked at low and high temps (400 vs 700F+)

These balls were made with the essentially the same recipe as above.  They were proofed and baked within 3 hours or so.  Both batches were subjected to the same quick knead method.  The higher HR dough ended up needing an extra round of folding/balling to achieve a similar ball shape prior to proofing.

First pics.  Doughballs after kneading and after proofing.  Doughballs were 90gm each and stretched out as thin as I could get them ~9" basically windowpaning them.   The lower hydration (LH) doughs were much harder to stretch out than the HH doughs and thus they got a bit more handling/manipulation.  This may translate into "pressing the rim" a bit which could have a small effect on limiting oven spring.  I  tried to avoid the rim but it was difficult.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 11:00:46 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2010, 10:27:19 AM »
Here is the low hydration & high hydration bake at low temp (400) .  Took about 3 mins to puff up and baked an extra min.

First pics LHLT vs HHLT.  LH is red and HH is green.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Does a higher baking temperature result in a bigger oven spring?
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2010, 10:34:04 AM »
a few more pics of the LHLT vs HHLT bake.