Author Topic: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza  (Read 43666 times)

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Offline texmex

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1150 on: January 10, 2016, 09:58:33 AM »
rp, I think it looks real good.  I like the looks of the crust. 

Since I went back to work, I've had to stop trying to make pizza during the week, and only make it on weekends.  I'm working off the Con Agra bread flour making Bialy's and Bagels and Bialy bread, and using only the Primo Gusto bread and crust flour for my pizza crusts.

I've been experimenting with adding a small amount of garlic, onion and red pepper to the dough and its certainly not like Vincents with that in it, but I do like the extra kick in the flavor.  The poor dog never gets any crust anymore...

What a beautiful pie...I think I've been making Vincent style pizza, although I don't know what it actually tastes like.  40 plus pages to read about all the speculation and methods and all the other input here is why I love coming to this forum. :P   reminds me of this pie created by StrayBullet : http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12538.msg124263#msg124263
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 10:08:44 AM by texmex »
Reesa

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1151 on: January 10, 2016, 10:23:32 AM »
40 plus pages to read about all the speculation and methods and all the other input here is why I love coming to this forum. :P   
Reesa,

The length of a thread is often an indication of how difficult it is to reverse engineer and clone a pizza, especially a famous or popular one, even when you have a rough idea as to what goes into the dough and the rest of the pizza, as was the case of Vincent's pizza in this thread. We have a lot of members who come to the forum looking for such recipes but are often disappointed that there isn't a "final, perfected" recipe laid out in black and white--cookbook style--in one place with photos to match. When they see a thread with seemingly endless posts covering many pages that they would have to navigate, they usually leave and never return.

Peter

Offline texmex

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1152 on: January 10, 2016, 10:32:18 AM »
Reesa,

The length of a thread is often an indication of how difficult it is to reverse engineer and clone a pizza, especially a famous or popular one, even when you have a rough idea as to what goes into the dough and the rest of the pizza, as was the case of Vincent's pizza in this thread. We have a lot of members who come to the forum looking for such recipes but are often disappointed that there isn't a "final, perfected" recipe laid out in black and white--cookbook style--in one place with photos to match. When they see a thread with seemingly endless posts covering many pages that they would have to navigate, they usually leave and never return.

Peter

What a shame that is, Peter.  I was brought up to read and read and read some more.  It has served me well in my life.  I do see the thousands of newcomers who finally sign up introduce themselves and never return.  If only being able to utilize the search function were something folks could get more interested in they might be better able to work things out for themselves.  My nature is to want to help, but it seems most want instant gratification.  I'm gonna start on page one here in this thread just to learn more about a skill I want to master or at least be good at. Thank you for always helping out! 
Reesa

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1153 on: January 11, 2016, 10:04:41 AM »
Ppl want good homemade pizza but aren't willing to put forth the time, effort, and resources to learn.  That's the mentality of the majority of ppl these days.  They aren't willing to ask questions, be humbled, fail, or work at something.

Offline texmex

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1154 on: January 11, 2016, 10:22:37 AM »
 ^^^ 
Wow, I am partway into this thread and seeing all the suggestions.....a lot of thought went into this.  So glad to see that BobC did not give up way after getting thrown off the game and changing too many things!  This is seriously better reading than most novels, and somewhat easier to follow than RT vs CF flavor diatribes. ....haha. just joshing ya, Craig.  :angel:

Chau, you wouldn't know the slightest thing about trial and error, would ya? !  :-D

J/K!!!  Thanks for the wealth of information you all so generously provide!
Reesa

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1155 on: January 11, 2016, 10:26:13 AM »
Ppl want good homemade pizza but aren't willing to put forth the time, effort, and resources to learn.  That's the mentality of the majority of ppl these days.  They aren't willing to ask questions, be humbled, fail, or work at something.
Chau,

I couldn't agree with you more. There are several studies showing that if people know that information is on a computer, they won't take the time to learn it, as opposed to the previous generation that didn't have the same luxury and had to learn more. Today people don't have to know how to do basic math, or to spell or to compose sentences since the Internet has taken away the need to do so. Google has even introduced a new feature that supposedly composes replies to emails. And there is talk that in the future entire articles will be composed by computer. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the math and technologically oriented people will dominate society, and be the wealth creators and main beneficiaries of that wealth, because they have the skills and knowledge that few others will have.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1156 on: January 11, 2016, 10:32:58 AM »
Quote
When they see a thread with seemingly endless posts covering many pages that they would have to navigate, they usually leave and never return.

The functionality (or lack thereof) of the forum is largely to blame. The inability to move a post to the beginning of a thread or at least edit the first post in a thread really makes it tough for the forum to be both a resource for the OP and a reference for everyone else in the same thread. The baker's yeast table thread is a good example. You have to go to P9 of the thread to find the latest version. More than one person has not read the first line of the first post telling them to go there (to P8 actually - needs to be updates to the table on P9 [reply 202]) and used the old table by mistake.

I can't tell you how many times I've gone to a long thread and had to waste a lot of time to figure out what what the OP's latest or best formula - including my own threads a couple times!

The length of a thread is often an indication of how difficult it is to reverse engineer and clone a pizza, especially a famous or popular one, even when you have a rough idea as to what goes into the dough and the rest of the pizza, as was the case of Vincent's pizza in this thread. We have a lot of members who come to the forum looking for such recipes but are often disappointed that there isn't a "final, perfected" recipe laid out in black and white--cookbook style--in one place with photos to match.

When I was working on my reverse engineering UPN project, https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10237.0, I did all the work offline specifically so it wouldn't turn into a long thread that had to be scoured at length to find the useful information. I wanted the first post to be, like you said, the background, recipe, and photos. You can't do it this way if you want it to be a collaborative effort, however.



"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1157 on: January 11, 2016, 10:43:05 AM »
Ppl want good homemade pizza but aren't willing to put forth the time, effort, and resources to learn.  That's the mentality of the majority of ppl these days.  They aren't willing to ask questions, be humbled, fail, or work at something.

I couldn't agree with you more. There are several studies showing that if people know that information is on a computer, they won't take the time to learn it, as opposed to the previous generation that didn't have the same luxury and had to learn more. Today people don't have to know how to do basic math, or to spell or to compose sentences since the Internet has taken away the need to do so. Google has even introduced a new feature that supposedly composes replies to emails. And there is talk that in the future entire articles will be composed by computer. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the math and technologically oriented people will dominate society, and be the wealth creators and main beneficiaries of that wealth, because they have the skills and knowledge that few others will have.

I agree with both of you, and for those people, even if the recipe w/ pictures was on the first page of the thread, they probably wouldn't be able to duplicate it in most cases not be willing to put in the time to gain the experience necessary to do so. Notwithstanding, it isn't an excuse for poor organization. If we know that the age of computers has caused people to be less likely to learn (and therefore more in need of resources such as this), and If we know people are leaving this particular resource because information is difficult to find, what does that say?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline texmex

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1158 on: January 11, 2016, 11:02:11 AM »
Craig, you can set up the parameters in your profile acct settings to show newest posts first, but the default setting is showing from 1st post to last. I am so used to scrolling to last post that when I changed my settings it was only a matter of days before I changed them back to the default.

I forgot about the inability to modify your own thread posts.  It was a mystery to me why the modify button was gone in some posts. Thanks for that clarification.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 11:14:41 AM by texmex »
Reesa

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1159 on: January 11, 2016, 11:12:55 AM »
I would say in most cases, the latest post is no more helpful than the first. Is there a setting to show the most important posts first?  :-D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline BobC

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1160 on: January 11, 2016, 09:52:19 PM »
I think it was a learning experience.  It took many many tries to get pizza like what I remember, even with the hints like using molasses.

The other thing in my mind is that the recipe has to be adjusted for the exact ingredients used, ie the ConAgra bread flour just didn't give results anything similar to the Primo Gusto.  I suppose someone that made pizza for years would know what it needs to feel like, etc, to come out right, but me, I really didn't know till I got' close, and even then, had a difficult time realizing that such small differences in ingredients and methods made huge differences in the results.

I make pizza every week now, and everyone loves it., LOL, as long as I stick to the recipe.  I took the weights from back when I weighed things.  I don't weigh anymore, because I measured the weight, and found that is quicker and works just fine.  The most I've made was 6 pizzas for a party and it came out great.

181.71 gm warm water 70%
1.25 tsp IDY  ~2%
1/2 tsp olive oil 1%
1/2 tsp molasses 1.25%
1 tsp salt 2.3%
259.57 gm Primo Gusto Bread & Crust flour from GFS

mix, then knead 10 min, ball, flatten, and store in oiled container in oven with light on 2 hrs

fold 16 times into itself and ball, flatten and put back into container in oven with light on for 5 hrs

pull out, put stone on bottom rack, preheat to 550f for 45 min

sprinkle peel with coarse semolina flour (Vincent used regular flour, but I like the semolina better because when i try regular flour it either sticks or i get a floury taste on the bottom of the crust because I can't assemble quick enough)

flour board, pull patty out upside down onto board, sprinkle bottom well with flour

turn to right side up and stretch dough to 16" leaving the outer 1 1/2" thick, making sure bottom isn't sticky, put on peel

add sauce and cheese (i1/2 smoked provolone, 1/2 mozzarella) and pepperoni

put in oven quickly, set timer for 8 1/2 min, turn down temp to 525.  I usually go 9 min, but first time try 8 1/2 and peek.  As soon as the bubbles are browned its ready

Thanks to everyone here that helped me get to this point, and especially to Vincent for making pizza worth looking forward to...

Offline texmex

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1161 on: January 12, 2016, 05:36:25 AM »
I would say in most cases, the latest post is no more helpful than the first. Is there a setting to show the most important posts first?  :-D
   

I would say that BobC just fixed that... :-D  Thank you for posting the formula here at the end.  I'm barely up to reading page 25 of this thread.   I just used molasses in my last pizza, Bob.  Some of my very first pizzas had molasses in the dough too, and I really love the depth of flavor it gives.  I really like the messy style of saucing the rim a little and I do that to my oven baked NY style too.  Vincent seems like he was one of them cool cat, larger than life types. Glad you worked through and found the right formula for happy eating and great memories.

I think it was a learning experience.  It took many many tries to get pizza like what I remember, even with the hints like using molasses.

The other thing in my mind is that the recipe has to be adjusted for the exact ingredients used, ie the ConAgra bread flour just didn't give results anything similar to the Primo Gusto.  I suppose someone that made pizza for years would know what it needs to feel like, etc, to come out right, but me, I really didn't know till I got' close, and even then, had a difficult time realizing that such small differences in ingredients and methods made huge differences in the results.

I make pizza every week now, and everyone loves it., LOL, as long as I stick to the recipe.  I took the weights from back when I weighed things.  I don't weigh anymore, because I measured the weight, and found that is quicker and works just fine.  The most I've made was 6 pizzas for a party and it came out great.

181.71 gm warm water 70%
1.25 tsp IDY  ~2%
1/2 tsp olive oil 1%
1/2 tsp molasses 1.25%
1 tsp salt 2.3%
259.57 gm Primo Gusto Bread & Crust flour from GFS

mix, then knead 10 min, ball, flatten, and store in oiled container in oven with light on 2 hrs

fold 16 times into itself and ball, flatten and put back into container in oven with light on for 5 hrs

pull out, put stone on bottom rack, preheat to 550f for 45 min

sprinkle peel with coarse semolina flour (Vincent used regular flour, but I like the semolina better because when i try regular flour it either sticks or i get a floury taste on the bottom of the crust because I can't assemble quick enough)

flour board, pull patty out upside down onto board, sprinkle bottom well with flour

turn to right side up and stretch dough to 16" leaving the outer 1 1/2" thick, making sure bottom isn't sticky, put on peel

add sauce and cheese (i1/2 smoked provolone, 1/2 mozzarella) and pepperoni

put in oven quickly, set timer for 8 1/2 min, turn down temp to 525.  I usually go 9 min, but first time try 8 1/2 and peek.  As soon as the bubbles are browned its ready

Thanks to everyone here that helped me get to this point, and especially to Vincent for making pizza worth looking forward to...
Reesa


Offline BobC

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1162 on: January 12, 2016, 07:38:54 AM »
OOPS, forgot quantities on toppings...

It takes 8 or 9 oz of cheese and 45 or 50 slices of normal sized pepperoni and about 3/8 cup of sauce (1/3 is too little, 1/2 is too much, I think).

If you put too much cheese and pepperoni on you get a puddle in the middle.  To me, best is where there is a slight puddle when hot out of the oven, but 30 seconds later its absorbed back in.

Crust should be crunchy around the rim on top, and crispy on the bottom, and it should be thin in the center area and tall around the rim with bubbles here and there, with sauce and cheese accidentally splotching the rim here and there, caramelized.  When you pick it up you should need to support the middle or its getting too thick, and when you cut or bite into the rim, after the initial crunch, it should be soft till you hit the crispy bottom, and after you bite or cut, it should spring back up.

Offline foreplease

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #1163 on: July 02, 2016, 12:28:34 PM »
I would say in most cases, the latest post is no more helpful than the first. Is there a setting to show the most important posts first?  :-D
Google is reportedly working on that  ;D

I'm so far gone I have no interest whatsoever in making this type of pizza but will likely still read 1100 plus posts. I'm through about 200 now.
-Tony
I find it easier to imagine a diet of nothing but ice cream than one without ice cream