Author Topic: Unbleached Occident Flour ???  (Read 9139 times)

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Offline dmcavanagh

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Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« on: July 31, 2010, 06:05:02 PM »
Pick up a bag of unb. occident flour in an Amish store in Northern NY. Anyone know much about it? My Google search says is simply unbleached AP flour. The ingredients list is: wheat flour, barley flour, potassium bromate. BTW, it makes a damn good pizza dough and white bread.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2010, 06:13:59 PM »
Is the brand name of the flour "Occident" (e.g.. see http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/food/ItemDetail.aspx/ItemID/468dad50-d658-48c0-8441-f0d702c945f3) and does it contain the standard vitamin enrichment package (B-Vitamins and maybe iron)?

Peter

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2010, 06:21:45 PM »
Pete, bags have been packaged by somebody by hand, probably taken from a 50# sack. The link could very well be the supplier, many Amish products come out of Pennsylvania. However, the ingredients are listed as I stated, not the same as the ConAgra product.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2010, 06:25:19 PM »
dmcavanagh,

I believe sometimes the term "occident" is used in a more or less generic sense to mean bread flour or all-purpose flour.

Peter

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2010, 06:36:44 PM »
Most of the info I can find says AP flour. This feels a little finer than most of the typical AP's that I've worked with. Whatever it is, it makes a nice dough and I'll be experimenting with it.

Online scott123

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2010, 07:30:18 PM »
I've never seen or heard of an all purpose bromated flour. Since bromate is a bread enhancer, you'd never add it anything other than bread flour.  This is bread flour, not AP.

The presence of bromate not only confirms this is bread flour, but it pretty much guarantees that it's the ConAgra version. The odds are astronomically small that there are two bromated bread flours called 'Occident.'

http://www.conagramills.com/our_products/bakery_flours.jsp

Quote
Premium-quality bakers flour milled from cleaned, sound hard wheats. White pan breads, specialty pan breads such as wheat, raisin and multigrain, hamburger and hot dog buns, dinner rolls, coffee cakes, and cinnamon rolls, pizza dough, tortillas, pretzels, and croissants.


Unless someone else has more detailed specs, based on the fact that it doesn't reference 'spring' wheat, it's probably on the low-ish end of the bread flour protein spectrum.  My best guess- 11-12.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 07:35:49 PM by scott123 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 07:41:52 PM »
scott123,

You are correct on the matter of all-purpose flours not being bromated, and I should have caught that since I recently investigated that matter, as you can see at Reply 360 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11044.msg102978.html#msg102978. Also, as noted at Reply 364 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11044.msg103022.html#msg103022, most winter wheats are also not bromated. All of this seems to suggest that the "occident" flour may be milled from hard red spring wheat or possibly a combination of hard red spring wheat and winter wheat, with a protein content above 12%.

Peter

Online scott123

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 08:02:15 PM »
Peter,

Since Occident appears on the list right above King Midas and we know King Midas is 12.6%, I was sorely tempted to guess that it would be in a similar realm, but then I started looking at GM's 'patent' options (H&R, King Wheat) and, since they're all 11, I thought it best to scale my estimate back. I think you're right- it could easily be more than 12.  It could be less, though, too. 11-13.  That's my final answer  ;D

I wish these silly companies would post their darn specs.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2010, 08:09:47 PM »
Thanks for the effort guys, the next time I go to this store, I'll quiz someone and try to get the scoop. Today when I was there I asked the girl at the checkout and she was clueless. She said she thought it was called "accident" flour. I would say it was a bit on the low side of protein for a bread flour since it seems very fine to the touch. When I can get more info I'll add to this post. Won't get a chance to get to the store for at least a couple of weeks.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2011, 03:35:51 PM »
I just received an e-mail from Con Agra stating that occident flour is a "baker's flour", very similar to their bread flour. They listed the protein at 12.4%. This is a very good flour for pizza and bread making.


Online scott123

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2011, 03:46:43 PM »
Dave, thanks for following up on this.  That's great to be able to finally get a protein specification.

Since bromated 12.4% is right inside the range of what I consider the NY style 'sweet spot,' I will definitely be adding Occident to my list of recommend flours (along with Spring King, Kind Midas Special, Full Strength and others).

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2011, 03:51:12 PM »
I 've had to really dig to get any info on this flour, glad to finally be successful. I've been very pleased with this flour both for pizza and bread. I buy it at a small store in northern NY that packages it from 50# sacks. I'll be stocking up my next trip, and it's reasonable at about $3 for a 5# bag.

Online norma427

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2011, 09:37:34 PM »
dmcavanagh,

Thanks for starting this thread about the unbleached occident flour.  :) I think I can also purchase that flour at my local Country Store.  I never thought it would be good for making pizza, but since your thread, might give it a try.

Norma
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Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2011, 10:30:43 PM »
Norma, I believe that the place in get this flour from receives there shipment from Pa. Do give it a try, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Offline dragas

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2011, 02:58:57 AM »
It most likely comes from here.
http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/

At least my local market in South Central PA does.




Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2011, 03:10:12 AM »
dragas

I'm almost certain that's the place.

Online norma427

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 07:11:36 AM »
Norma, I believe that the place in get this flour from receives there shipment from Pa. Do give it a try, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


dmcavanagh,

When I go to the Country Store, I will see if I remember right, that it was there.  I have Amish friends that told me they used the Occident flour for making bread awhile ago, but never associated using Occident flour for pizza.  

What style of pizzas are you using the Occident for?

I think my brain canít remember right, because, this is where I mentioned Amish using Occident flour sometimes, in place of King Midas, for bread, at Reply 11
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9696.msg84276.html#msg84276

And this is where I mentioned using Occident Flour for making soft pretzels at Reply 26 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10286.msg93335.html#msg93335

Thanks again for helping my old brain.  :-D

Norma
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 07:23:19 AM by norma427 »
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Online norma427

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2011, 09:52:37 AM »
dmcavanagh,

I did go to the Country Store this morning, and they do carry bleached and unbleached Occident flour.  I picked up a bag of unbleached Occident flour.  I wonder what kind of pizzas can be made with this flour. 

Norma
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Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2011, 01:10:34 PM »
Norma

That's the same stuff I get, packaged the same way. yours is a little cheaper then I pay in upstate NY. I make basically a NY style pizza, perhaps just  slightly thinner then most. It also make great bread, even have used it at camp in a bread machine. Con Agra calls it a "baker's flour", so I'm assuming it has many uses.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Unbleached Occident Flour ???
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2011, 01:40:33 PM »
Norma

Wouldn't be surprised if the stores are very similar,,,http://ncsbulkfoods.com/