Author Topic: Light and Airy Dough?  (Read 5204 times)

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Offline Benbuck

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Light and Airy Dough?
« on: August 04, 2010, 10:32:05 AM »
Occasionally I will try the doughs from local pizzerias here in Phoenix. No not B's! One of the most interesting is from NYPD which is a chain of you can guess what style pizzas. I usually make a Reinhardt Neo Neapolitan or Pizza Girl's Lehman from here. Anyway the NYPD just comes out of the proofing dish light, airy and incredibly smooth, uniform and translates to the same kinda of pizza dough. Plenty of airholes and very light. Any suggestions or other recipes or tips? I have been mixing by hand lately as it actually seems to be less hassle than dragging out the Kitchen Aid weight set. My the last two pizzas were somewhat thick and with not much rise. Thanks. (I know hard to believe I am making pizzas in my (550 oven) kitchen when it is about 130 outside!)
Thanks


Offline jeff v

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 10:48:11 AM »
What % of yeast are you using? One guiess would be is that NYPD is using more yeast than you. Another would be-are you letting your dough come to room temp before shaping? This gives the yeast a chance to get going again. Some more particulars about what your doing/looking to do would help.

Jeff
Back to being a civilian pizza maker only.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 10:56:50 AM »
We have an NYPD here in Alb, NM as well. I've only had it twice and both times it was good. I don't recall it being light and airy but it wasn't doughy either. You'll want to up your yeast, hydration ratio and proof your dough longer to get a light and airy crumb.

Chau

scott123

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 11:07:27 AM »
1. Lose the King Arthur (supermarket) flour.

2. How long are you baking your pizzas? How long is NYPD baking their pies? You'll want to match that by using a thicker, more conductive stone.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 11:42:58 AM by scott123 »

Offline Benbuck

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 11:30:08 AM »
The Pizza Girl Lehman dough from this site is IDY.40% and I know Pete did a calculator/percentage for the Reinhardt/Neo(RN) which I can't find but the PGL is 64% water and RN is 70% water. Dough bags were refrigerated  for 30 hours and set out to room temp for two hours before using. The RN is:

Makes 4 10-inch pizzas
5 cups all purpose flour
1 Tablespoon sugar or honey
2 teaspoons salt (or 3 1/2 teaspoons kosher salt)
1 teaspoon instant yeast
2 Tablespoons olive oil
1 3/4 plus 1 tbls water

It did seem really easy to work with for 70% hydration so maybe I was off somewhere. Amazing the longer you work with doughs how so many small things can make a difference. Thanks

Offline Benbuck

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 11:50:15 AM »
 
Reinhart Neo :
I said 70% so I was off a bit. Its a dry heat...

Flour (100%):
Water (67.2247%):
IDY (0.47222%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (4.2328%):
Sugar (1.875%):
Total (175.55472%):

scott123

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 11:56:24 AM »
3. Get a digital scale.

Offline Benbuck

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 12:44:58 PM »
Scott.
I have one and use it but sometimes get lazy and just grab the measuring cup. I guess that could be the diff.

scott123

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 01:21:11 PM »
Benbuck, if you work with a recipe that only lists grams (for the flour and water), you'll never have to worry about being lazy because your cups will be useless.

What kind of baking stone are you using? What is your baking time?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 01:26:55 PM by scott123 »

Offline jeff v

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 01:47:49 PM »
1. Lose the King Arthur (supermarket) flour.

2. How long are you baking your pizzas? How long is NYPD baking their pies? You'll want to match that by using a thicker, more conductive stone.

Lol, I know you're asserting yourself as an authority on here but c'mon.
Back to being a civilian pizza maker only.


Offline sear

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 02:01:17 PM »
.

Offline Benbuck

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 02:09:47 PM »
Bake times at usually at 4-5 minutes low in the oven on 3/4 inch heavy duty round stone. Oven 530-550 usual heat up. Then upper rack under the broiler for the finish and slight char. Flour may vary between KA bread or general.

scott123

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 03:10:55 PM »
Bake times at usually at 4-5 minutes low in the oven on 3/4 inch heavy duty round stone. Oven 530-550 usual heat up. Then upper rack under the broiler for the finish and slight char. Flour may vary between KA bread or general.

Like I said. Lose the KA flour.

Is that a 3/4" fibrament stone? What is it made out of?

Total bake time?

Offline Benbuck

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 05:54:24 PM »
Let me first of all apololgize for not posting enough data for the recipe and then futher continuing downward with not being exact enough in the recipe. I will really work harder next time. Jeff and Jackie, thanks for your comments and I will try new yeast levels and hydrations. The stone is actually a Big Green Egg stone and the model is the new Better than Fibrament model. I am done with this thread.

scott123

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 07:54:17 PM »
Benbuck, there's no need to apologize.  From your initial post, it sounded like you have been making pizza for a while and wanted to up your game by aiming for something light and airy.  We're all trying to help you attain that goal. 

KABF is notorious for making dense bready crusts.  I've eaten NYPD pizza, and, although it's not the best NY style pizza there is, it's lighter/airier than most chains that I've been to.  Lightness/airiness comes from quick bake times (high heat/thick conductive stone), sufficient hydration and quality flour.  I don't think I'm going out on a limb by suggesting that if you want NYPD's pizza, match their bake time and match their flour.  That means commercial, high gluten flour.  Most NY pizzerias use bromated flour, but since NYPD has franchises in California (where bromate labeling is stringent), I would guess that they don't use bromate.  You might call your local pizzeria and ask- if it is bromated, then you definitely want to use bromated yourself, as bromate makes light and airy pies a LOT easier.

Your level of hydration, with proper flour, is pretty much where you want to be.  4% oil is way too much oil for NY style, neo or otherwise.  NYPD feels a lot like a 2% oil dough.

Edit: I just called NYPD pizza  on East Camelback Road in  Phoenix (602-294-6969). They DO use bromated flour.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 08:13:53 PM by scott123 »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 08:19:57 PM »
scott123,

According to Roto-Flex, at http://www.rotoflexoven.com/expages/ourclients.asp, NYPD (http://www.nypdpizzeria.com/) uses their ovens. Their basic oven uses metal baking surfaces although it is possible to retrofit them with stones, according to what I was told by a Roto Flex sales person.

Peter

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Light and Airy Dough?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2010, 08:23:30 PM »
Benbuck, as you may know making amazing pizza can surmount to a nearly impossible task.  Getting the right answers on the forum can sometimes be even tougher.   :P  I'm a fan of Scott123.  He has helped me (and others I'm sure) tremendously.  I have often times found his advice to be spot on.  And no Scott doesn't pay me to say these things.  I do it out of appreciation for his willingness to openly help new members.  It isn't easy helping ppl that aren't forthcoming with details, who may never respond to let you know if your advice did indeed help or not, and who may never say 1 word of thanks.  They leave you hanging.  I also realize that new members aren't as detailed in their post as more seasoned members would like and that it isn't done on purpose.   Yet, despite this all too common scenario, we have senior members that show up here everyday to help out without pay or thanksgiving.  That says a lot for those folks.

The 3 pluses I see going for you is that you are not far off.  You may be closer than you can imagine to achieving your goals.  You have ppl on here that are experts and willing to help.  And lastly the Big green egg (IMO) is an excellent pizza oven.  If you cook at 650 for about 4 min, you should have the puffy airy crust with a bit of crunch.  Just keep tweaking the formula.  

Keep your chin up and don't forget to keep us posted.  I want to hear about your success.  


 

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