co-partner in opening a pizza shop

[c0mpl3x]

so basically, when i managed at BBP one of my drivers was a real estate tycoon.  he saw how passionate i was/am for pizza (always will be) and proposed that if he pays for the shop, i would run it.  of course i jumped on the idea! demographics and other shop averages/quality suggest that there will be great success in the items. 

i have written up a menu and reviewed it with the other guy and we're rather satisfied with it.  any pointers?  i've price matched or beaten any of the shops in the area, and offer what others have failed at.

dough is going to cost $.27c to .57c per doughball.  we've crunched the #'s on the food cost and at worst it is 50% food cost on the items (ie 50% cost on 34.99 but its almost $18 profit) .  at best i believe there was 11%

                                    B&J Pizza: Come for the service and leave stuffed

    NY hand tossed---------------Sicilian style pan pizza--------Deep dish pizza-----   Seasonal/specialty
sm 4cut 4.99 toppings $.50   ---small 4cut 4.99 toppings $1-----Thursdays ONLY   ---seasonal prices and sizing
med 8cut 6.99 toppings $1--   --lg 8cut 9.99 toppings $1.50   -----8cut 11.99 top 1.50 ---toppings and style vary
lg 10cut 9.99 toppings $1.50----XL  16cut 13.99 toppings $2               
XL 12cut 11.99 toppings $2

      TOPPINGS
MEAT: Bacon - Seasoned beef - smoked chicken - Sweet sausage - Italian sausage - Pepperoni - (thursdays) Chicago sausage
VEGGIES: Broccoli - Spinach - Onions - Green peppers - Banana peppers - Jalapenos - Diced tomatoes   
                 Fresh basil - mushrooms - Black olives - Green olives - Fresh garlic - Pineapple
CHEESE: mozzerella - provolone - Yellow cheddar - sharp white cheddar - romano/parmesan blend - asiago - colby jack - swiss
SAUCES: Fresh garlic butter - Traditional diced tomato - house-made pesto - chunky marinara

      SPECIALTY PIZZAS

The cheeses: all of our signature 9 cheese blend with your choice of sauce on our fresh-made chewy NY dough or Sicilian dough
   small $7.99 medium - medium (ny only) $10.49 - large 13.99 - XL 15.99
The meats: bacon, beef, sweet and italian sausage, pepperoni, and smoked chicken with your choice of sauce on Sicilian or NY dough
                             small $8.49 medium - medium (ny only) $10.99 - large 14.49 - XL 17.99  THURSDAYS: deep dish 8cut 14.99
The veggie: Onions, green/banana peppers, green/black olives, diced tomatoes, mushrooms and basil, your choices of dough and sauce
                          small $7.99 medium - medium (ny only) $10.49 - large 13.99 - XL 15.99 THURSDAYS: deep dish 8cut 14.99
The neopolitan: signature Naples quality with our high temp cooked NY style topped with fresh basil, marbled with rich sauce and mozzerella
   NY only: small $5.99 - medium $7.99 - large $10.99 - XL 12.99
The great white: Fresh dough smothered in pesto or garlic sauce, mushrooms, chunky tomatoes, spinach, and extra portions of four cheeses of your choice
   small $7.99 medium - medium (ny only) $10.49 - large 13.99 - XL 15.99
The feast: Your choice of dough and sauce topped with Sweet sausage, mushrooms, bacon, onions, green peppers, spinach, and 3 cheeses of your choosing
                              small $8.49 medium - medium (ny only) $10.99 - large 14.49 - XL 17.99  THURSDAYS: deep dish 8cut 14.99
Chicago classic: flaky buttery chicago deep dish loaded with chunky tomatoes, a heaping of mozzerella, and loaded with pepperoni chicago style sausage
                                    8 cut $12.49

      APPETIZERS

Breadsticks: Crunchy and chewy hot out of the oven buttered in garlic sauce served with pizza or garlic sauce. - 12 sticks $4.99 add cheese $.50
Cheese puffs: Chewy dough stuffed with cheese and baked to perfection.  buttered in garlic butter and served with your choice of sauce.  6 for $4.99
Sweetsticks: Our own cinnamon icing and cream cheese icing drizzled over lightly baked breadsticks. 12 sticks $4.99
Apple cups: Miniature pies with apple filling and homemade oat and brown sugar topping baked crispy drizzled in icing.  4 pies $5.99
Cheesesticks: garlic buttered dough topped in 5 kinds of cheese.  Served with your choice of side sauce for $5.49


      DEALS AND SPECIALS:

The Sampler: Any 8cut pizza with three toppings, apple cups, sticks of your choice, and a 2L for 19.99
Family Feast: One 8cut Sicilian, One 8cut NY each with two toppings, breadsticks or cheese sticks and a 2L of your choice $19.99
Royal Feast: Fit for a king! Two gourmet pizzas for one great price! One 8cut Sicilian, one 8cut NY, 2L and two sticks of your choice $25.99
Party Pleaser: perfect for sports or parties.  one XL gourmet, one XL with one topping, your choice of appetizer and 2L for 29.99
Legion Feast: Two XL pizzas.  One sicilian & one NY, or (2) deep dish  any way you like it with two 2L's and two sticks of your choice $34.99

[Bill/SFNM]

Sounds exciting. I wish you lots of success! The pizzas sound delicious. Where are you located?

I'm not in the pizza business, so I really can't comment on how your menu might be received by your target demographic or the pricing or the profit margins. I'm sure this is a just a draft version to kick around and that the many spelling and grammatical errors will be proofed before printing.

The only pointer I can give is about your motto:

B&J Pizza: Come for the service and leave stuffed

For me it was an immediate turn-off. I assume good service as a minimum requirement. I assume a good value for my money as a minimum requirement. I assume the portion sizes will be adequate. I assume it will be a comfortable atmosphere. My decision to try your restaurant once and then return to it again and again will be based on my perception of the quality of your food. Of course I'll never return if the service is bad, but I think your motto should stress how much I will enjoy eating your pizzas. My 2 cents FWIW.

[c0mpl3x]

stuff

located north of pittsburgh PA by about 45mins.

the 'motto/slogan' was pretty much an innuendo.   our marketing plan is to hire only hot, good looking, good sounding girls to handle the phones/front.  going to shoot for a non-delivery pizza shop.  guys will come in for the pipe dream of good looking, at least 18yo (sexual harassment, thus why 18+)  girls (the truth....) and women will feel bad (usually) that there is a girl stuck working at a pizza shop, based on possibly somewhat skewed research. it's rather in the interest of the business as a profit margin than it is the employees.  but the customer is your employer.  can't have a job without quality product at competitive pricing!

will probably rename the slogan though, it's rather brutal for the sensitive ones

[Bill/SFNM]

our marketing plan is to hire only hot, good looking, good sounding girls to handle the phones/front.  going to shoot for a non-delivery pizza shop.  guys will come in for the pipe dream of good looking, at least 18yo (sexual harassment, thus why 18+)  girls (the truth....) and women will feel bad (usually) that there is a girl stuck working at a pizza shop

My bad. I thought you were opening a pizza shop. 

[c0mpl3x]

My bad. I thought you were opening a pizza shop. 

[steel_baker]

located north of pittsburgh PA by about 45mins.

Zelie? Gibsonia?

steel_baker

[hotsawce]

Honestly, as a consumer, the menu seems a little busy for me. Do you really need 4 pie sizes? For example, instead of an "extra large," maybe you could offer a 2 pie special, which might be slightly more attractive to a buyer and it might increase your profit a little bit. Just look at what pizza hut and dominoes are doing

I've never run a shop, but the pizza places by me have so much on the menu I find it a major turn off. I've always been a fan of the more simplistic/elegant menus. That's just me, though. I don't know what's good for business.

Regardless, good luck. All of your pizzas look delicious so you should do well regardless of the menu 

[c0mpl3x]

Honestly, as a consumer, the menu seems a little busy for me. Do you really need 4 pie sizes? For example, instead of an "extra large," maybe you could offer a 2 pie special, which might be slightly more attractive to a buyer and it might increase your profit a little bit. Just look at what pizza hut and dominoes are doing

I've never run a shop, but the pizza places by me have so much on the menu I find it a major turn off. I've always been a fan of the more simplistic/elegant menus. That's just me, though. I don't know what's good for business.

Regardless, good luck. All of your pizzas look delicious so you should do well regardless of the menu 

in the western PA area you need to have a gazillion things on your menu unless you are as successful as papa johns with a handful of pizza styles.

most places around here offer 5+ sizes.  with 5 being the least.

but noone offers a sicilian (two shops in a 50mi radius from target location) or a deepdish (20mi north) outside of one random shop.  NY dough and sic dough are based off of one size.  xl is 100%, l = 75% m = 50%  sm = 33%

sic sizing xl = 100% lg = 50% sm = 25%

only two dough sizes.  deep dish is offered in one size.  all of the cheeses and meats can be kept frozen.  sauces too actually.  veggies, to an extent.  only some of them (onions, green peppers, basil, broccoli, and spinach) 


shop location will be within access of 1.2 million people if they drive at most 45mins to get there with access from 6 counties  1% success rate of customers coming in per population, is 12,000 customers.  even if 10% repeat customers, that is an average of around 1200 a week.  average ticket of $12 = 14,400 a week, with about $5000 a week in food/labor/emloyee/utilities cost.  that leaves 8000 a week profit, 52 weeks a year = 448,000 a year.

now we cut into reality.   say profit is only half of that.  200k, maybe 100k a year.  that's after food and employee cost.   not bad!  even 100k a year split two ways is looking damn nice for doing something you love.  that's about 2300 a week.

[hotsawce]

Hey, enjoying it is what it's all about. I don't know much about the market your entering. I just know, for me, if a pizza place here opened that didn't have the same exact thing on it as the other 30 places within walking distance, I'd be thoroughly intrigued. The sicilian might prove to be that boost for your shop.

And, if you don't mind me suggesting this, why don't you get a few grill pans and offer up grilled pizzas? No one is doing it, it's pretty darn tasty and it's unique.

[c0mpl3x]

Hey, enjoying it is what it's all about. I don't know much about the market your entering. I just know, for me, if a pizza place here opened that didn't have the same exact thing on it as the other 30 places within walking distance, I'd be thoroughly intrigued. The sicilian might prove to be that boost for your shop.

And, if you don't mind me suggesting this, why don't you get a few grill pans and offer up grilled pizzas? No one is doing it, it's pretty darn tasty and it's unique.

already planned.  i have schematics for propane/NG burner tubes from black iron pipe (bit sizing vs pipe size/length for xxx btu) from a previous job i worked at.  going to have a GFO, that will max out around 450,  wood secondary (for the taste on the high temp ny dough) to boost that another 300.

the top oven is going to run around 375-400 for sicilian and deep dish and more well done pizzas.   well done and extra sauce seems to be very popular around the area for some reason. 

overall cost of building the ovens is going to be about what a years worth of leasing two ovens would cost.  plus if they break...  there's only one thing that can break.   the burners or the thermocouple. 

[gabaghool]

I'm not gonna comment on whether or not I would be comfortable with the waitron thing you got going on, but, business wise, a few thoughts.

I live in a pretty high end  town.  In town, there is a pizzaria whose motto is something like "have a hot piece at Gio's".  All the waitrons are young, REAL YOUNG, and wear short shorts and reeeeeeeeeal tight tshirts.

Now, I don't think much of the pizza, but they PACK them in.  Now they also support MANY town things, like little league, etc.  I don't know HOW the parents allow their high school daughters to dress as such, especially for work....but to each his own.

I KNOW FOR A FACT, they lose some families (and that would worry me, because in a town with young families, the KIDS say where to eat pizza) because the parents are uncomfortable with the attire, BUT.......in the long run, their sexy theme has done them well.

PS:  One thing, keep a tight reign on possible sexual flirting between the front and back of the house (and it WILL HAPPEN) because these flirtations will ALWAYS lead to harassment charges AS SOON as one waitress has a problem with a cook.  Or when the owner has to discipline the waitress for unrelated offenses.

Hooters is proof this could work, and work well.....but the pizza HAS to be AT LEAST DECENT, in both taste and price.

Good luck!!

[TXCraig1]

in the western PA area you need to have a gazillion things on your menu unless you are as successful as papa johns with a handful of pizza styles.

most places around here offer 5+ sizes.  with 5 being the least.

but noone offers a sicilian (two shops in a 50mi radius from target location) or a deepdish (20mi north) outside of one random shop.  NY dough and sic dough are based off of one size.  xl is 100%, l = 75% m = 50%  sm = 33%

sic sizing xl = 100% lg = 50% sm = 25%

only two dough sizes.  deep dish is offered in one size.  all of the cheeses and meats can be kept frozen.  sauces too actually.  veggies, to an extent.  only some of them (onions, green peppers, basil, broccoli, and spinach) 


shop location will be within access of 1.2 million people if they drive at most 45mins to get there with access from 6 counties  1% success rate of customers coming in per population, is 12,000 customers.  even if 10% repeat customers, that is an average of around 1200 a week.  average ticket of $12 = 14,400 a week, with about $5000 a week in food/labor/emloyee/utilities cost.  that leaves 8000 a week profit, 52 weeks a year = 448,000 a year.

now we cut into reality.   say profit is only half of that.  200k, maybe 100k a year.  that's after food and employee cost.   not bad!  even 100k a year split two ways is looking damn nice for doing something you love.  that's about 2300 a week.

To Bill's earlier point, is your competition the other pizza places or Hooters/sports bars/etc? Don't those sorts of places tend to draw from an extremely local area? Who drives 45 minutes to go to Hooters? or pizza for that matter (cult places excluded)?

Craig

[c0mpl3x]

the location is right off of a major traffic corridor for pittsburgh from the north end of the city.  east, west, or south are all directions people drive from their homes to work in this job-rich area.  there is interstate exits devoted to commercial complexes and industrial parks backing that up.  the amount of cars that goes past on average is over 50k a day over a certain amount of miles (i forget the distance).

there is multiple places of living where people drive a minimum of 25-30 miles one way to work. a county survey for those that didn't live 'in town' said the average commute was something like 22 or 26 miles, average time 45-50 minutes.    just how things are around here.  there isn't any sports resturants around the area.  the 'one off' mom and pop shops that offer that weird stuff (seafood pizza or 'italian' sicilian) are a household name in the family in most families around here, and we are striving to aim for that (store slogan is a joke, take out the '&') more of a sitdown, not over-lit fast service experience.

as of lately i had a talk with a guy by the name of Ron (ex-landlord) more than likely the oven is going to be NG with a wood secondary, as drilling holes in black iron is cheap/easy, and brick remnants being thrown out from Ron (one of the old landlords we rented off of that owned the plaza our shop was in) total cost is going to fall between 1000 to 2000, much cheaper than leasing two ovens for 5 years.

highschool girls will be hired pretty much never.  too many issues with that, and parents more than anything in my prior management experiences.

can't think of much else at the moment.  lots of real estate coming up for sale lately, tough part is finding one that's 3phase and zoned commercial

opening two shops or more isn't out of reach, but not starting with more than one.

[gabaghool]

in the western PA area you need to have a gazillion things on your menu unless you are as successful as papa johns with a handful of pizza styles.

most places around here offer 5+ sizes.  with 5 being the least.

but noone offers a sicilian (two shops in a 50mi radius from target location) or a deepdish (20mi north) outside of one random shop.  NY dough and sic dough are based off of one size.  xl is 100%, l = 75% m = 50%  sm = 33%

sic sizing xl = 100% lg = 50% sm = 25%

only two dough sizes.  deep dish is offered in one size.  all of the cheeses and meats can be kept frozen.  sauces too actually.  veggies, to an extent.  only some of them (onions, green peppers, basil, broccoli, and spinach) 


shop location will be within access of 1.2 million people if they drive at most 45mins to get there with access from 6 counties  1% success rate of customers coming in per population, is 12,000 customers.  even if 10% repeat customers, that is an average of around 1200 a week.  average ticket of $12 = 14,400 a week, with about $5000 a week in food/labor/emloyee/utilities cost.  that leaves 8000 a week profit, 52 weeks a year = 448,000 a year.

now we cut into reality.   say profit is only half of that.  200k, maybe 100k a year.  that's after food and employee cost.   not bad!  even 100k a year split two ways is looking damn nice for doing something you love.  that's about 2300 a week.

BB
Just my two cents worth here......At your proposed GROSS (about 750,000), I think you are being a bit to optimistic about your "profit".  At 14,400 at week, your food cost, labor cost and utilities will EASILY be 50%, or about 7500.  Now, this can be lowered by a few factors. 

1. You and your partner do MOST of the work.  Both in the back, or one in the back, one in the front, ideally.  This way, you can both fill your costliest two postitions in the place, head pizza guy and manager.
2. The more pizza you sell as food, the better your food cost.  Other things, burgers, grinders, almost anything EXCEPT pasta will drive your food cost up.
3. Your equipment and facilities are NEW, modern.  An older building with older mechanics and older equipment will be more costly to run and repair.

If you can run 17% profit on your gross, which if fine for a PIZZA place, you are doing VERY WELL.  So at 750K, you are looking at arouind $110,000......but most don't do that well.  Try and keep food and labor at 45-50%, utilites are going to be more, and you stand a good chance.  A pizza place is MUCH easier to run a food cost in the 20's than a regular restaurant

So, you stating that 100K was ok is reasonably realistic at your proposed gross.  You would be AMAZED how many ways you lose money in this biz.....even as a manager, you don't see the things OWNERS see and feel.

Good luck!!