12 Pies

[TXCraig1]

A bunch of the folks that work for me decided that we were going to have a pizza party at my house last night. At least they gave me enough warning to make the dough (KABF 100%, water 61%, salt 2%, Ischia starter 2%, 25 hours bulk @77F, 5-6 hours in balls @ 77F).

I made 12 pies which is the most I've ever made in one day by a factor of 2X. I have a new respect for those people who do this (many times over) all day every day.

In order of the pictures below:
1 - Margarita
2 - Pepperoni w/ jalapeno
3 - Cremini mushroom w/ Grana and white truffle oil
4 - Mozz and sharp white cheddar w/ black pepper
5 - Pepperoni w/ Calabrian chili oil
6 - BBQ Shrimp (recipe now posted here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11496.msg106323.html#msg106323) - most everyone's favorite
7 – Margarita
8 – Pecan roasted onions and hot fennel sausage
9 – Pepperoni w/ fresh basil
10 – Margarita
11 – Leftovers (roasted onions, jalapenos, sausage, mushrooms)
12 – Butter, sugar, cinnamon

Craig

[TXCraig1]

Pies 6 - 12.

[jever4321]

Looks awesome. You have some lucky friends...

[Jackie Tran]

fantastic!  very very nice as always.  You've got me considering a grill with rotisserie option.  What was the temp and bake time?

Chau

[TXCraig1]

~750F on the stone and probably 800-850F above it. Typical time was ~2-2:15.

Craig

[c0mpl3x]

good job nice work.  PJ's was slammed on sunday with 165 deliveries and 49 carryouts oddly enough, good thing i was kicked out to go deliver for the two no call no show's.   wish their prep time was faster though, i'd love to see pizzas spit out of a conveyor every 2 minutes vs 6:30

[norma427]

TXCraig1,

Great looking pies.    They sure do look tasty.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Craig,

I don't think it gets much better than that.

Peter

[PizzaSean]

Wow - these look incredible!

I'm def in the newbie category at the moment... I'm impressed that you can get such beautiful results with just KABF available at the local grocery!  I've been reading so much about the various flours that require a little more hunting down to get to, but these look so great. 

I soon want to try my first batch of homemade dough and I don't really know much about the process so I was planning to use the Lehmann calculator and give it my best shot.  One thing I noticed is that you did a room temp rise in bulk and then a 2nd rise in dough balls.  I had arbitrarily thought of doing a division right away and then doing a refrigerated rise.  Like I said that was an arbitrary choice more or less because I had seen it mentioned on the forums.  I wonder what factors went into your choice to rise as you mentioned.

Thanks,
Sean

[Jackie Tran]

Craig these were done in your grill set up correct?  If so what is the highest temp you can get on top with the rotisserie burner?  Was it cranked to its highest setting for this bake? Can you go hotter for a more classic neopolatan bake under 2 mins?

Any drawbacks that you see on using a grill/rotisserie setup other than it's not wood fired and not traditional?

Thx
Chau

[TXCraig1]

I'm impressed that you can get such beautiful results with just KABF available at the local grocery!  I've been reading so much about the various flours that require a little more hunting down to get to, but these look so great.

KABF is a fine flour. Believe it or not, you can make a great pie with straight KAAP too. Personally, I don't understand the fascination with the (expensive) flours that "require a little more hunting down to get." My recommendation would be to experiment, fine tune, and practice with what you have readily available. You will come up with something that works well for you in your unique baking situation. Some people may disagree with me on this. I’m certainly not against seeking out quality ingredients or getting excited about something special. Rather, I’m just suggesting that there are more important things than the choice of flour (within reason – i.e. don’t expect cake flour or some cheap off-brand run-of-the-mill flour to make a good pie), and I'm not trying to start a flour war with this post!

One thing I noticed is that you did a room temp rise in bulk and then a 2nd rise in dough balls.  I had arbitrarily thought of doing a division right away and then doing a refrigerated rise.  Like I said that was an arbitrary choice more or less because I had seen it mentioned on the forums.  I wonder what factors went into your choice to rise as you mentioned.

I really became a believer in the bulk rise followed by a second rise in balls when I was working on my Reverse Engineering UPN Dough project (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10237.0.html). I’ve since decided I like the simpler mixing method I use now, but I’m sold on the 24 hours @ room temp bulk followed by 4-6 or so more hours in balls. My experience tells me that the flavor I’m looking for develops much faster at room temperature than in the fridge. 24 hours on the counter may be the equivalent of several days or more in the fridge flavor wise. I also believe that the time in bulk matters, but I can’t give you a reason as to why other than observations of the end products both ways.

Keep in mind that I’m using Ischia culture and not commercial yeast. Under refrigeration, the bacteria will still make the sour flavors (though more slowly) but the wild yeast doesn't do much, so it’s not really a viable option for me most of the time. I did some experiments using both commercial yeast and culture together and extended fermentations in the refrigerator with good results, but overall, I prefer dough that is never exposed to cold temperatures. With commercial yeast only, the method you chose may be better for developing flavor. Try some using bulk/balls and some in balls only, and see if it makes a difference. I’d be curious to hear what your results are.

Craig

[TXCraig1]

Craig these were done in your grill set up correct?  If so what is the highest temp you can get on top with the rotisserie burner?  Was it cranked to its highest setting for this bake? Can you go hotter for a more classic neopolatan bake under 2 mins?

Yes they were (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9614.0.html). When I turn on all three burners along the bottom and the rotisserie burner on the back (the instructions on the BBQ say not to do this), and light an oak fire in a cast iron pan in the back corner, I can get the stone to over 900F, but that does not really work very well as the air above the stone isn’t going to be much hotter (and maybe not even that hot), and it will tend to burn the bottom before the top is done.

I prefer to run it at about 750F on the stone. The air above will be in the 800F range, and I get a nice pie in 2-2:15. If I turn down (or off depending on the outside temperature) the middle burner directly under the stone and don’t wait too long between pies, it will stay in that sweet spot.

Any drawbacks that you see on using a grill/rotisserie setup other than it's not wood fired and not traditional?

The biggest drawback is, as noted above, it is difficult to get a meaningful differential between the temp on the stone and the air temp. It takes a lot of insulation to get any, and the insulation I’m using is not inexpensive. I’ve doubled the amount of the white insulation you see in the pictures, and it made a big difference. If the air above is cooler than the stone, and it will be without adequate insulation, the pies will come out pale on top or burned on the bottom. Or both.

On the plus side, its starts up instantly with the push of a button and heats up very predictably in 45 minutes. It’s definitely not traditional, but until I can build a real WFO (which I hope to be this winter), It’s the best I can come up with.

Craig

[Jackie Tran]

Craig, thx for the insight and details of your grill's peculiarities.    750 hearth temp and a 2 min bake is about as fast as I would want it.  I actually like 650F and a 3-4 min bake, but was curious to know if I could do a quasi NP bake in a set up like yours. 

Have you considered or tried putting (fire)bricks on the sides a 2ndary stone on top?  That may trap the heat in and eliminate the need for thermal blankets.  Just a thought. 

I'm stuck between rocks and a grill.  I can either spend about $200 and build a poor man's mortarless WFO for testing purposes or I can spend $250 for a grill with a rotisserie burner.

The pluses for the WFO are no parts to break down, likely more proportionate and appropriate heating compared to the grill, possibly better flavor.
The pluses for the grill would be faster start up times, probably cheaper to operate compared to buying wood, easier control temps for baking in the 650-ish realm. 

Decisions, decisions.  Anyway sorry for detracting from the original thread.  Your best effort had me drooling 4 months ago and my mouth watering today.   

[TXCraig1]

Have you considered or tried putting (fire)bricks on the sides a 2ndary stone on top?  That may trap the heat in and eliminate the need for thermal blankets.  Just a thought. 

Not until long after I built it when I saw some posts about people using two stones. I'm in a good place where I am now. I don't think I want to start over until I build a real WFO.

My wife decided she wants to put in a pool. I don't want a pool, but you can guess who won that one. The only compremise I'm getting is some extra concrete poured so I can build a WFO. I hope to find the time to start on it in the fall.

Craig

[jjdec05]

Everything looks delicious, but the margheritas look out of this world! I have been putting off experimenting with sourdoughs for too long, your dough has convinced me to give it a try.

[norma427]

Craig,

I sure hope my activation of my starters work out, so I can try one of them in a formula like you use.  I keep looking at the pictures and wonder why I never tried to activate my starters before. 

Thanks for telling how you make this dough and also sharing pictures of your pies. 

Norma

[brayshaw]

Absolute works of art Craig!
I'd have a slice.....or 10!
Paul

[FacciaPizza]

Those pies look phenomenal.

[PizzaSean]

The sauce looks lovely - I'm curious about some of the different options people choose and how they prepare them.  What did you choose for these pies?

Sean

[TXCraig1]

The sauce looks lovely - I'm curious about some of the different options people choose and how they prepare them.  What did you choose for these pies?

The sauce for 99% of my pies (with sauce) is whole peeled tomatoes, lightly pureed with a stick blender, with sugar and salt to taste. Uncooked. I would say my favorite is a 35oz can of Cento Italian tomatoes which usually needs ~1Tbsp sugar, and ~1 tsp salt.

Other tomatoes I like are DeCecco DOP and Strainese DOP.

Craig