Author Topic: First Higher Heat Pies  (Read 3033 times)

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parallei

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First Higher Heat Pies
« on: August 21, 2010, 11:24:49 PM »
Tonight I tried my new 2Stone for the first time.  Did JerryMac’s 8 hour method but using Peter’s (Pete-zza) classical polish method with 50/50 KASL/00.  I made three 10-inch pies.  I forgot to add the salt with the second addition of flour and ended up hand kneading it in about ½ through the bulk rise!  No harm done.

The 2stone got to 750 in about 12 minutes.  The top was about 810.  Pies took about 2 min, I think.  I wasn’t paying attention to the time, just the color.  All in all, I was very happy with my first try at the higher temps.  Next time I think I’ll tone down the top heat a bit and maybe go with more KASL.  We did like the char, but maybe a bit less next time.  The 2Stone is great fun and everything I expected.

Thanks to WestCountry (Chris) for the tips and a bit of hand holding……..


Offline scott123

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2010, 02:01:27 AM »
Nice, I like the coloration.  Great camerawork as well.

I've always been curious as to what's going on in the top of a 2Stone.  There's obviously a second stone, but beyond that, there's a burner right?  Does the burner heat the ceiling stone from above? There's no direct flame coming from above, right? With the bottom stone's rotation is the top heat uneven? In your setup, how far apart are the two stones?

Online TXCraig1

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2010, 02:23:21 AM »
Two beautiful pies there. Very nice. I'm going to have to try the rosemary pie tomorrow.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2010, 08:18:29 AM »
Nice even charring of the rim.  750f in 12m is fast!  That's really efficient.  Very cool oven you have there.

Online norma427

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2010, 08:50:09 AM »
parallei,

Great looking 2Stone.  Your pies look delicious.  :)

Norma
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Offline Kemosa

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2010, 08:53:30 AM »
Scott,

If you look at the picture of his 2stone oven you'll see a handle which moves the burner in and out.  The handle all the way out heats directly under the stone creating bottom heat and pushed in goes beyond the back of the stone creating more top heat.  It works really well to regulate between bottom and top heat.

parallei

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 02:44:03 PM »
Thanks for the kind words everyone.  The 2Stone will be great fun to play around with.

Scott,

There is roughly 3.5" between the bottom stone and the top stone(s).  I have the "Turbo Top" top.  It includes a rectangle of aluminum sandwiched between two rectangles of Fibrament. As Kemosa pointed out, the unit has only one burner and it is located bellow the bottom stone.  Imagine looking at the bottom stone from above:  One can move the burner from the center of the stone, out along the radius to the back of the stone.  As the burner is moved toward the back, more heat is directed up along the back of the unit and to the top stones.  If the burner is going full bore, and in the rear position, I can get flames to leap out across the bottom of the top stones.

The bottom stone has a variable speed drive that seems to do a pretty good job of keeping the top heat distribution even as the pie turns.  The top heat is higher toward the back of the unit (or at least it seems so with my limited experience).

Paralleli
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 02:46:04 PM by parallei »

Offline Tampa

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2010, 07:32:34 PM »
Yum on those pies!  Nice job.

The cooking surface looks like cordierite, and kind of thick (1" or so).  It's an optical illusion right?  The stone isn't as thick in the center cooking area as the rim perspective shows or it would be difficult to ramp to 750 in 12 minutes.

Thanks for posting

Dave

parallei

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2010, 10:21:48 PM »
Tampa:

Thanks for YUM on the pies!

As noted above, the bottom stone is a Fibrament, and is a uniform 1-inch thick.  When I tested it, the ambient temp. was about 93 deg. F.  Low humidity; hey it's Denver. My notes show the following (I used an Craftsman 1000 deg. IR thermometer and an up counting timer):

3 min:  Bottom 320
6 min:  Bottom 425, Top 440
9 min:  Bottom 457, Top 544
11 min: Bottom 675, Top 805 (at back)
13 min: Bottom 745, Top 825 (at back)

I could be off by a minute or two, and mileage may vary.  I had the thing running full bore.  If any one else has bothered to time/temp their 2Stones, perhaps they could chime in with their results.

Best

Paralleli



 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 10:23:46 PM by parallei »

Offline scott123

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2010, 12:39:00 AM »
Paralleli and Kemosa, thanks for describing the setup, that's a huge help. 


Offline Tampa

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2010, 01:10:31 PM »
Parallei

Wow, those are amazing warm up times.  The best I’ve been able to achieve with a stone half as thick as yours is 700F in 15 minutes.  (See post #7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10241.0.html)  If I used a 1” stone like you do, I estimate it would take at least 30 minutes.  Your setup achieves 700F in 12 minutes.

You must be drawing a lot of gas and blowing a lot of BTUs.  My setup is putting out about 30k BTUs.  Maybe you are over 100k?

Two comments about measuring temperature.  My buddy was using a Sears IR thermometer and we found it to be off 50F at 600F.  If you have some way to check it, that would be good.  Also, I’ve measured the back of the stone and either missed, or had the beam reflect and pick up a significantly higher temp on the back surface.  I’m not saying this happened in your case, but it is possible.

Dave

parallei

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2010, 01:35:52 PM »
Tampa:

I'm sure there was some bouncing around with the temp. measurements, particularly on the top stone near the back.  I haven't attempted to calibrate the IR device.  That said, now I'll HAVE TO make another pie tomarrow evening so I can get you more information (all in the interest of science you understand).  I'm not sure of the BTU output on the unit, I'll check the 2Stone site.  If you  go to the 2Stone site, look at the Capoto Video.  It claims 800+ in 15 min.

Best

Paralleli

Offline Tampa

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2010, 02:42:36 PM »
I saw the 15min reference but didn't realize that was 800F with a 1" stone.  I watched the video again and indeed, the flames are a lickin - kind of like some of the LBE videos.  Thanks for the post.
Dave

Offline sear

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2010, 06:18:37 PM »
 :o   :)  8)

those look great, now i need to build a new oven, thanks  :-D

Online TXCraig1

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2010, 08:26:55 PM »
Two beautiful pies there. Very nice. I'm going to have to try the rosemary pie tomorrow.

Craig

I don't think mine came out as nice as yours. Ate good though!

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2010, 08:38:01 PM »
Looking good as usual. I bet a Rosemary garlic chicken pie with a red or white sauce would be fabulous.

Chau

parallei

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2010, 09:06:10 PM »
Craig,

Your pies look great, as always.....  I just put a couple of balls in the fridge for tomorrow night.  100% KABF, 61% hydration and 2% salt - I thought your "12-Pies" pies looked so good, I'd give them a try.  No starter though.  One thing at a time....

Paul 

parallei

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 10:15:13 PM »
Well, these look O.K., but really didn't work out that well.  100% KABF, 63% H2O, 2% Salt, 0.5% IDY.  Dissolved salt in water, added flour/yeast, mix, knead for 8 min (Cuisinart dough hook).  Split into two balls, in the fridge 22 hrs, @ room temp for 2 hours.  Two 10-inch pies @ 222.66 g | 7.85 oz each. TF = .1.

Bottom stone @ about 650, top 680 or so. I pulled them when they started to char up.  Here's what went wrong:

•   The dough was slightly under cooked, but I needed to pull them before they torched off.
•   Rim was larger than I wanted, though I placed toppings pretty far out to the edge.

I’m thinking I just need to use smaller balls and stretch them thinner.  The dough just explodes on this thing and I’m not used to it.  Ant advice would be appreciated.

Paralleli


Online TXCraig1

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 01:37:49 AM »
I've been letting my dough really go in the rise - at least 2X in bulk and then probably another 2.5-3X in balls - all at room temperature over 30 or so hours. When I open the balls up, I'm not particularly gentle. I press them open about half way with the underside of my fingers - flipping and pressing a couple times - then stretch them the rest of the way on my knuckles. When pressing, I try not to go all the way to the edge and when I stretch, I try to maintain a little extra thickness at the edge. If i see that part of the edge is thicker in some spot after I set it down to top, I'll give it a stretch there. I top the pie on the counter then slide it up onto the peel and give it a final stretch and rounding. A 250-260g ball is opening to 11"+ by the time it goes into the oven.

I don't know what any of these individual steps is having on the thickness of the rim, but all of my pies seem to have about the same rim as you see in the pictures I've posted recently.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

parallei

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Re: First Higher Heat Pies
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2010, 09:49:38 PM »
Getting closer to what I want.  Smaller rim, thinner pie.  Tasted good too.

75% KASL, 25% Caputo 00
63% Water (cold, about 39 deg F)
1.75% Morton Kosher Salt
0.5% IDY
TF 0.09

Every thing dumped in at once, 3 min mix, and 3 min knead ala Scott123.  Into the fridge for 23 hrs and 2 hrs at room temp.  Stretch a bit more aggressively ala TXCraig1.  The dough was very extensible with the retarded fermentation.  About 2 min at 725 in the 2Stone.  Now, if I can just duplicate my effort Friday night when we’re having some folks over for PIZZA……..

Paralleli