Author Topic: Newbie WFO questions and answers  (Read 48099 times)

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #550 on: July 14, 2011, 08:42:56 AM »
After 1 hour, I got temps of 1000+ on the floor.  Let it cool down to 900 to bake.

Chau,

I'm curious about this. How long did it take for the deck to cool 100 degrees? Here's why I ask: I've found that it is one thing to measure a given a deck temp and another thing to get enough heat stored in the oven to be able to bake several pies over the period of an entire meal. For example, I can probably get the deck temp up to 900F after an hour and a half, but even with a nice fire going on the side, the temp can drop pretty quickly after the first pie. But if I fire the oven for maybe 3 hours, I can easily maintain the deck at 900F.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #551 on: July 14, 2011, 01:42:40 PM »
Chau,

I'm curious about this. How long did it take for the deck to cool 100 degrees? Here's why I ask: I've found that it is one thing to measure a given a deck temp and another thing to get enough heat stored in the oven to be able to bake several pies over the period of an entire meal. For example, I can probably get the deck temp up to 900F after an hour and a half, but even with a nice fire going on the side, the temp can drop pretty quickly after the first pie. But if I fire the oven for maybe 3 hours, I can easily maintain the deck at 900F.

Bill, I didn't time the cool down but it wasn't long, 5-10m once I stopped loading more wood on.  I did not load more wood after the first pie and temps were still 850-ish.  Since I am the only one eating the NP pies, I typically only make 2.   So I haven't been too concerned about maintaining temps.  After the NP pies, I typically let the temps drop to 700-750 to cook the hybrid pies.   If I was baking all NP pies, I'm sure the heat up times would be longer. 

I have an idea bill.  Bring some dough over and we can bake 6-8 NP pies back to back and time everything. ;)

Chau

Offline JConk007

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #552 on: July 14, 2011, 09:04:02 PM »
And post everything too please  ;D
I have dough for 70 pizzas (24.68 lbs of flour) in the fridge mixed up in the Diving Arm,  man that thing is sweeet . after a 20 Min autolyse, I cut down the mix time to 6 min.,  then rest 3 min., then mix 1 more minute low speed which is really low! . Dough felt great. Will be a balling fool tomorrow ! 1st pie in friday 8 pm !
John
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #553 on: March 31, 2012, 10:02:34 PM »
I finally got off the forum and did something useful today.  ::)  Wife had me hang up some lights over the WFO.  It gives our Tuscan style home a more Italian feel and it added much needed light over the WFO and ceramic grill/smoker.  Now I can cook outdoors and see what the heck I'm doing!


Offline RobynB

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #554 on: March 31, 2012, 10:13:25 PM »
Oooooh, pretty pretty!! That looks really nice! 

Lighting adds so much to an environment - that really sparkles up your patio  ;D

Offline JConk007

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #555 on: March 31, 2012, 10:23:14 PM »
What a brite Idea  ;)
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #556 on: April 01, 2012, 12:29:07 PM »
Very nice Chau. You did a beautiful job designing your outdoor kitchen. It works perfectly with your house. The light really tie it all together!

CL
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Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Ev

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #557 on: April 01, 2012, 01:46:21 PM »
Looks nice, Chau!
I could really use some lights myself.

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #558 on: April 01, 2012, 02:23:48 PM »
Chau,

I agree that the lights look really nice!  8)

Norma


Offline chickenparm

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #559 on: April 01, 2012, 11:22:58 PM »
That looks GREAT Chau!

 8)
-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #560 on: April 01, 2012, 11:46:52 PM »
Thank you all.  It was really my wife's idea.  I didn't know how it would turn out, but it turned out great.  The length of the lights was perfect and it provides great lighting for grilling and baking after sunset.  It really gives great mood lighting out there as well.

Offline arby916

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #561 on: March 08, 2013, 04:46:46 PM »
Phew, that was a long thread to read! I'm interested in buying a FB Premio2G100. I imagine that they have worked out a lot of the kinks that you talked about in this thread by now but I'm curious as to how your oven has held up. Would you recommend this product?

Thanks!
Adam
-Adam

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #562 on: March 08, 2013, 04:57:57 PM »
Adam, what do intend to bake in the oven?  Neapolitan pizza or NY style pizza?  And do you have a budget you have to stick too?

Offline arby916

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #563 on: March 08, 2013, 05:09:42 PM »
I prefer Neopolitan. I am in the same boat that you were: no set budget but I prefer getting a good deal. I also think I would use the WFO for the exact same purpose that you are, mainly pizza but I'll find other things to do with it. The only difference is that I have a "Bubba Keg" grill/smoker instead of your Primo!
-Adam

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #564 on: March 08, 2013, 05:25:37 PM »
I can't recommend the FB ovens for NP pizza for a home environment.  The main issue I have with it is that it cooks unevenly IMO.  Meaning the floor gets much hotter than the dome, when you have a big rolling fire overhead.   Consequently the bottoms of the pizzas burn easily unless you do half of the cooking off the floor and on a peel.   This issue was discussed in the CY dough thread.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21730.msg239181.html#msg239181

You can get by if you are only doing a few NP pies or make NP once in awhile, but it's a pain in the ass to do that.  I don't know if that also holds true in real NP ovens or not, but I imagine it doesn't happen as often, especially if the oven is fire properly and saturated. 

Now you can probably get around this issue by using Whitacre Greer FB as member Shuboyje does in his WFO's, but you'd have to factor in the cost of a new floor.  Likely not that pricey.   There are other tricks you can employ as member Pizza Napoletana has done like using a metal plate to sit where you will bake your pizza until you are ready to bake.  Then remove the plate and the floor is cooler.  BTW, Omid does not have a FB oven, but I think experiences a similar hot floor issue.  

But if you are going to be doing mostly NP pizza, I think it's worth it to pay the extra $ and get a real NP oven.   Especially if it will be the one and only oven you will ever buy.  The FGM oven seems to be gathering quite a following here on the forum, so I would look into that oven as well.  But before everyone gets too excited about it, I would like to see more of the advance members bake in the FGM oven and see how their results compare to their own ovens.  I know member JCONK, who makes beautiful pies recommend the FGM oven.

I will also say that if anyone is interested in a wfo, you may consider getting one that is bricked dome or bricked lined on the interior.  They are just more appealing to look at when you have a nice fire going rather than refractory cement ceilings.  

Chau
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 05:29:32 PM by Jackie Tran »

Online pizzaboyfan

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #565 on: March 08, 2013, 05:47:50 PM »
chau,
I agree with you that the FGM oven is a nice unit, but I think the problem with the hot floors is more about the hearth ( or lack of it) under the oven.
The issues with hot floors all seem to be with ovens that either sit on prefab stands, or were constructed with minimal or no insulation underneath the floor.
I have a casa 90, with 4 " of insulated board sitting on top of 2" of solid bluestone, and I have never had those burnt bottoms.
I just ordered and received a new pyrometer, and depending on how the weekend goes, I was going to make some pies and measure the floor temp.

Perry


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #566 on: March 08, 2013, 06:58:18 PM »
chau,
I agree with you that the FGM oven is a nice unit, but I think the problem with the hot floors is more about the hearth ( or lack of it) under the oven.
The issues with hot floors all seem to be with ovens that either sit on prefab stands, or were constructed with minimal or no insulation underneath the floor.
I have a casa 90, with 4 " of insulated board sitting on top of 2" of solid bluestone, and I have never had those burnt bottoms.
I just ordered and received a new pyrometer, and depending on how the weekend goes, I was going to make some pies and measure the floor temp.

Perry



How would more insulation make it better? If anything, I would think it would make it worse, AOTB, as the heat is not going to pass through the tiles as rapidly and rather build up in them. If the bricks are too hot for the given conductivity, insulation or no insulation, the bottom is going to burn or the pie will need to be lifted too early. My guess is that you have good floor tiles and the insulation is a non-factor with respect to burning bottoms.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline wheelman

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #567 on: March 08, 2013, 07:05:38 PM »
this is a hot topic and i'm not sure anyone has it exactly figured out.  I've tried 6 different floors in 3 different ovens in an effort to get this right.  Here's my 2c worth: i have a FB artigiano brick oven with biscotto floor that performs very close to a real Neapolitan oven.  i have raised the floor 2" to get a balanced bake top and bottom at about 825 - 850 deg.  the under floor insulation is a layer of fire brick on top of 2-1/2" of pearlcrete on top of 2-1/2" concrete slab.  
I also have built two cast ovens (blazing ovens) that have firebrick floors on top of the insulating panels on top of concrete.  one of the floors has been replaced with an experimental cast floor that seems to have about the same characteristics as firebrick.  those ovens both have the bottom burning problem at higher bake temps.  i like omid's trick of insulating the floor with metal between pizzas.  it works well for me.  
so i'm not sure it has much to do with insulation beneath the floor but i do think it has a lot to do with conductivity of the floor itself.  I can recommend the artigiano for NP and also recommend the Blazing Oven for slightly lower temp bakes.  i think the artigiano is the only FB oven that has an imported floor.  mine is a few years old so i would make sure that's the case with a new one.  
bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #568 on: March 08, 2013, 07:40:39 PM »
I agree Craig and Bill.  A reply #366 on page 19, you can see that I have nearly 4" of insulating fireboard ontop of a 4" concrete slab on a cement block base.  Member Thezaman did mention that he bakes NP pies in a FB mobile unit and doesn't always have the burning issues.  Apparently it depends on how many pies are being baked on it and the outside temp.  If your baking 50-100 pies back to back, maybe the floor doesn't have enough time to recharge.  So the FB ovens might perform well in thar scenario I don't know.

Chau

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Newbie WFO questions and answers
« Reply #569 on: March 09, 2013, 12:58:29 AM »
Is it the plane or the pilot?


 

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