Author Topic: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor  (Read 7127 times)

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Offline jever4321

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2010, 08:40:59 AM »
Mike, thank you for your very kind words.  I have followed your threads and valued your contribution as well.

I've been kind of procrastinating on the camera front- alright, fine, I've been really procrastinating on the camera front  :-D I keep waiting for the prices on the Flip style cameras to come down- they keep adding more features, though, so I think the $170ish price tag is here to stay.  Just this second, I popped over to ebay to see what kind of deals there were on a Flip ultrahd and the prices seemed reasonable. That's probably the route I'll take. I'm going to keep my eye out a little longer, but I promise you, you'll have video from me soon. And it will be my entire process in tremendous detail- soup to nuts.

As far as my sauce recipe goes... that I probably won't be sharing  :( Although I have my eye on consulting professionally as well as possibly catering large events, a part of me is hoping to eventually have my own place.  I have no issues with my dough recipe floating around (it's honestly almost always changing anyway), but, because of the hyper competitive nature of the pizza business in the NY area, I feel like I need to keep my sauce cards close to my chest.

As I'm sure you're aware, though, I do suffer from a really bad case of male answer syndrome and can't keep my mouth shut, so, if someone really wanted my sauce, my old posts reveal pretty much all the details.  I spent more than a decade reverse engineering the sauce of my favorite local pizzeria, but, at the end of the day, it's not rocket science.  The tomato should be the main player- everything else is just there to supplement the tomato flavor, not detract from it.  I'm also a very firm believer in fresh garlic, not dried and that dried basil is an abomination.

Thanks again.
Scott, if you wanted to open a NY style pizzeria, I think you should consider the central Ohio area, maybe the northwest side of Columbus. I think Dublin OH would be perfect. There is a serious pizza deficiency there. ;D
-Jay


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2010, 10:01:19 AM »
Theo,

When you use the Lehmann dough calculating tool, and you are using a basic home stand mixer, like a KitchenAid stand mixer, my advice is to use a bowl residue factor of 1.5%. That will usually yield a dough ball that is a bit larger than you are targeting but the dough ball can be trimmed back to the desired weight.

I think that there may be a problem with the dough formulation you posted in Reply 25 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11684.msg108030.html#msg108030 or else there is some missing information somewhere. I took the 2.98 kg weight figure Norma provided for the water in one 7/11 can and multiplied that by three (for three cans worth). That gives us 8.94 kg, or 8940 grams. That converts to 315.34 ounces (8940/28.35), or 19.71 (315.34/16) pounds. If the entire 50 pound bag of flour is used, the baker's percent for the water comes to 19.41/50 = 39.42%. That figure would be far too low for a NY style. Also, with respect to the fresh yeast, the corresponding baker's percent would be 1/(50 x 16) = 0.125%. That value, also, would be too low in my opinion. Do you think it is possible that only enough flour is added to make a total dough batch weight of 50 pounds? I haven't run the numbers on this scenario but can once you have a chance to respond to clarify. It is also possible that the water in the can doesn't come right up to the top since that would be cumbersome to handle.

Peter

scott123

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2010, 10:34:16 AM »
Scott, if you wanted to open a NY style pizzeria, I think you should consider the central Ohio area, maybe the northwest side of Columbus. I think Dublin OH would be perfect. There is a serious pizza deficiency there. ;D

Thanks for the invite, but I'll always be in a New York state of mind  ;D I'd chew off a limb before I'd drive into Manhattan, but, other than that, I consider this sacred ground.  Food means everything to me, and although I've got pizza on the brain, I also occasionally worship at the Indian and Chinese restaurant altar.  I've made pretty good strides with chicken and broccoli, but until I can make a kick butt chicken tikka masala myself, I can never leave  :)

Offline Essen1

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2010, 12:09:16 PM »
Mike, thank you for your very kind words.  I have followed your threads and valued your contribution as well.

I've been kind of procrastinating on the camera front- alright, fine, I've been really procrastinating on the camera front  :-D I keep waiting for the prices on the Flip style cameras to come down- they keep adding more features, though, so I think the $170ish price tag is here to stay.  Just this second, I popped over to ebay to see what kind of deals there were on a Flip ultrahd and the prices seemed reasonable. That's probably the route I'll take. I'm going to keep my eye out a little longer, but I promise you, you'll have video from me soon. And it will be my entire process in tremendous detail- soup to nuts.

As far as my sauce recipe goes... that I probably won't be sharing  :( Although I have my eye on consulting professionally as well as possibly catering large events, a part of me is hoping to eventually have my own place.  I have no issues with my dough recipe floating around (it's honestly almost always changing anyway), but, because of the hyper competitive nature of the pizza business in the NY area, I feel like I need to keep my sauce cards close to my chest.

As I'm sure you're aware, though, I do suffer from a really bad case of male answer syndrome and can't keep my mouth shut, so, if someone really wanted my sauce, my old posts reveal pretty much all the details.  I spent more than a decade reverse engineering the sauce of my favorite local pizzeria, but, at the end of the day, it's not rocket science.  The tomato should be the main player- everything else is just there to supplement the tomato flavor, not detract from it.  I'm also a very firm believer in fresh garlic, not dried and that dried basil is an abomination.

Thanks again.

Aha...looks like we're getting somewhere with your sauce recipe  ;)

In regards to the cam...I saw the Flip cam UHD at Best Buy for a $147. You might want to jump on that if it has all the features you need. But the price may still come down, who knows.

Good luck with your endeavor of opening your own shop. NY is a tough market.


Norma,

I hear you. I made the same mistake when I first got my new digitial scale and it screwed things up for me royally. That's life, though.  ;D
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline norma427

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2010, 12:57:58 PM »
Norma,

I hear you. I made the same mistake when I first got my new digitial scale and it screwed things up for me royally. That's life, though.  ;D

Mike,

Thanks for telling me I am not the only one that has messed up measuring ingredients in the past.
At least it makes me feel better.  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline jever4321

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2010, 01:17:41 PM »
Thanks for the invite, but I'll always be in a New York state of mind  ;D I'd chew off a limb before I'd drive into Manhattan, but, other than that, I consider this sacred ground.  Food means everything to me, and although I've got pizza on the brain, I also occasionally worship at the Indian and Chinese restaurant altar.  I've made pretty good strides with chicken and broccoli, but until I can make a kick butt chicken tikka masala myself, I can never leave  :)
I understand. I went through a food depression when I moved here 20 years ago. It's getting better, but the pizza is god awful. It's my opinion that a good NY style pizza joint around here would be a slam dunk because there is NO competition. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
-Jay

scott123

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2010, 04:16:44 PM »
I understand. I went through a food depression when I moved here 20 years ago. It's getting better, but the pizza is god awful. It's my opinion that a good NY style pizza joint around here would be a slam dunk because there is NO competition. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Jay, with a few tweaks and a little more practice, you're not that far from making the quintessential NY pie.  How about opening a place yourself?

Offline jever4321

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2010, 05:02:18 PM »
Jay, with a few tweaks and a little more practice, you're not that far from making the quintessential NY pie.  How about opening a place yourself?
Thanks for the compliment. I think i'm further than you think... Plus, my wife already thinks I'm a pizza nut job. I guess it all boils down to $$$ and time. Both are in short supply... :-\
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 05:03:51 PM by jever4321 »
-Jay

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2010, 08:00:21 PM »
That gives us 8.94 kg, or 8940 grams. That converts to 315.34 ounces (8940/28.35), or 19.71 (315.34/16) pounds. If the entire 50 pound bag of flour is used, the baker's percent for the water comes to 19.41/50 = 39.42%. That figure would be far too low for a NY style. Also, with respect to the fresh yeast, the corresponding baker's percent would be 1/(50 x 16) = 0.125%. That value, also, would be too low in my opinion. Do you think it is possible that only enough flour is added to make a total dough batch weight of 50 pounds?

Peter

Peter.  It is very possibly that the total weight could be 50lbs.  Jimmy is a mad man, sometimes getting a straight answer outta him can be difficult.  But, he has been my only source of pizza making info until lately.

However, these are the results (pics) from the Lehmann NY calculator batch I made last night.  I cooked these today.  Oven @ 550 degrees.  Overnight refridgerated doughballs.  Took 7-8 minutes maybe a couple minutes too long, as they were chewy in texture.  14" pies.  take a look
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 08:05:42 PM by sonofapizza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2010, 12:09:02 PM »
Theo,

I decided to take the information you got from Jimmy and to assume that he meant a 50-pound batch of dough. Otherwise, the numbers won't work. So, operating on that premise, I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html (you can also use the Lehmann dough calculating tool) to come up with a possible dough formulation for a 50-pound batch of dough. Of all the numbers you gave, the ones that appear to be hard and fast and the least disputable are the amount of salt and the amount of oil. So, I built the dough formulation around those specific values. I also increased the amount of cake yeast to 0.75% because I do not believe that one ounce of cake yeast would be enough for a dough that is to be either used the same day or after one or more days of cold fermentation. Also, a golf-ball size of cake yeast would seem to weigh more than one ounce.

In addition to the above changes, I also used a hydration of 58%. That may seem to be on the low side but you will note that the oil in the dough formulation is 6.38%. I have worked with high oil doughs before and if you don't adjust the formula hydration to compensate for the wetness that a lot of oil brings to the dough, you can end up with a very wet dough that can be hard to handle. My practice is to use a combination of water and oil percents that is pretty much equal to the rated absorption value for the flour I am using. That is the same approach that Tom Lehmann recommends. I should also mention that using 58% hydration, the amount of water comes to about 88% of the value that Norma came up with when she weighed one #10 can (the empty Stanislaus 7/11 can) filled pretty much to the top with water. I would imagine that in practice a worker wouldn't completely fill the can with water because it would be cumbersome and awkward to handle the can with water at that level without spilling the water. I suspect that the worker would fill the can just to the point where it is easy to manage. So, the 88% figure doesn't seem to me to be out of whack.

Based on the above, I came up with the following dough formulation:

Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
CY (0.75%):
Salt (1.97%):
Olive Oil (6.37%):
Total (167.09%):
13573.52 g  |  478.78 oz | 29.92 lbs
7872.64 g  |  277.69 oz | 17.36 lbs
101.8 g | 3.59 oz | 0.22 lbs |
267.4 g | 9.43 oz | 0.59 lbs | 15.97 tbsp | 1 cups
864.63 g | 30.5 oz | 1.91 lbs | 64.05 tbsp | 4 cups
22680 g | 800 oz | 50 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation

As I noted in the above dough formulation, I did not use a bowl residue compensation. However, if I were to use, say, 1.5%, which is the value I use at home to make my doughs in a stand mixer, the dough formulation becomes:

Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
CY (0.75%):
Salt (1.97%):
Olive Oil (6.37%):
Total (167.09%):
13777.13 g  |  485.97 oz | 30.37 lbs
7990.73 g  |  281.86 oz | 17.62 lbs
103.33 g | 3.64 oz | 0.23 lbs |
271.41 g | 9.57 oz | 0.6 lbs | 16.21 tbsp | 1.01 cups
877.6 g | 30.96 oz | 1.93 lbs | 65.01 tbsp | 4.06 cups
23020.2 g | 812 oz | 50.75 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

It is easy to scale either of the above dough formulations to any desired dough batch weight. However, to do so in a way as to replicate what Jimmy does, you would need to know a typical dough ball weight (or weighs for different size pizzas) and the corresponding pizza size(s). Otherwise, you can assume a thickness factor and, using the Thickness Factor option of the dough calculating tool, calculate the amount of ingredients you would need to make the dough for any size and number of pizzas. For example, a typical thickness factor for a NY style might be around 0.085.

It is also possible to redo the above dough formulations to use dry yeast. I can't find any fresh yeast (typically the 0.6 ounce cubes) in any store near me, so I use mainly IDY. Should you decide to try either of the above dough formulations and if you need help converting either or both of the above dough formulations to use either IDY or ADY, I can help you with that conversion (the baker's percents will be different for IDY and ADY).

With respect to the last pizza you made using the Lehmann dough calculating tool, I think I would use less yeast and a longer cold fermentation. That should produce more residual sugar for crust coloration purposes and create more byproducts of fermentation for better crust flavor and a better texture. It is up to you if you want to experiment with a lower thickness factor that is more typical of the NY style.

Peter


Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2010, 08:51:42 PM »
Pete - You are very wise and I will respect your expert advice.  thank you for taking the time to break it all down for me.  I am a pizza-psycho, and have alreay made another batch using your adjustments.  So I'll post the results soon.

Thanks,
Theo

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2010, 07:25:52 PM »
Gret work, fantastic looking pies Sonofapizza! The only glaring error I see is this.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11684.0;attach=24870;image

Canned mushrooms? CMON!  :P

When I used to order pies I'd ask "Do you use fresh or canned mushrooms?"

They would often reply "canned".

To which I would then say "Ok, let me have a pepperoni and green pepper".  ;D

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2010, 07:52:33 PM »
Gret work, fantastic looking pies Sonofapizza! The only glaring error I see is this.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11684.0;attach=24870;image

Canned mushrooms? CMON!  :P



Haa!  I know.... I know.  But I've open 10 different varieties of "canned" shrooms, and have found some great tasting, and great texture having specimens.  I know how to put fresh sliced shrooms on a pie, it is great that way too.  I was just trying to emulate a Jersey pizzeria pie I had back in December.  The place was a hole in the wall.  The pizza was key though.  They used canned mushrooms.  I swear to God when I start asking ingredient questions at pizzerias, people act like I'm with the IRS or something.  I always have to make em laugh before I get a straight answer out of any pro.  The guy said he gets em from a NJ distributor, puts em in a little olive oil and lets sit for a few days, while refrdgerated.

This guy also had a Marsala Pizza that I would've slapped my mother-in-law across the face, just to get a slice of it.  J/K about slapping mom, but it was that good!  Always the hole in the wall has the best pizza around..  why is that?

-Theo   
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:14:46 PM by sonofapizza »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2010, 10:59:49 PM »
CHICKEN MARSALA PIZZA SLAP!  I love it!  SOP you are so dang funny you have me cracking up all the time.   :-D :-D

I love the expressions on their faces.  Now you got me wanting to pizza slap someone!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 03:18:41 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2010, 02:47:46 PM »
Jackie...  I might be motorcycling my way through Albuquerque in a few weeks to secure a new job in Texas.  Maybe we'll have to meet up and make a few pies.

I've got a ringer on the Marsala Pizza suace recepie now.  My wife actually had a good one out of her Nana's old book (Italians....always stashing little notes on flash cards..)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 03:35:04 PM by sonofapizza »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2010, 03:17:45 PM »
Excellent!  That would be awesome.  If you have time just let me know and we can work something out.  I'd love to taste some of your creations.  If we don't have time to make pizza we can always hit one of the local joints.   :D


Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2010, 06:11:14 PM »
I'll let you know Jackie. ;)


On another note:  Here is the last bunch of pics I will upload regarding the original post.  My own Invention - the "Chicken, Roasted Garlic and Ranch pizza...... :chef:

Ranch base
Polly-O Part Skim Mozz
97% pre cooked chicken breast (ripped up and evenly distrubuted on pizza)
Slightly carmelized chopped Garlic (about two bulbs worth - cut inth 2mm cross-sections)
And my latest dough formula (Pete has schooled me well - Thanks Pete!)

Here she is!  Tasted great!

« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 06:26:20 PM by sonofapizza »

Offline norma427

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2010, 08:06:16 PM »
sonofapizza,

Your pie looks delicious!  :)

Norma
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Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2010, 08:35:59 PM »
Thanks Norma...  and thank you for taking the time to weigh out that 7/11 container as well

The pie was delicious. 

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2010, 01:47:22 PM »
Sonofa-P,

Lol, yeah well if you found a good canned mushroom more power to ya, you mentioned the key there in bad consistency, like wet tofu they usually are.

Hey I was so impressed by the recent pics I took a 'vidi' (means a look in Clockwork Orange lingo) at your recipe. I am surprised the veg oil is working better for you, whoda thunk it. I think the result is so good due to your HG four. I have scoured the earth (local stores) and I found one shop with 40 kinds of flour. Great for semolina restocking, but no one has HG flour anywhere so I've only ever used KABF. I also refuse to buy 50 pound online, lol, but one day maybe I'll leave my town again and find some elsewhere. The only other flour I tried was the wrong kind for 550 degrees, 00, but that's a different disastrous tale.

Cheers on the work!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1