Author Topic: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor  (Read 8057 times)

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Offline sonofapizza

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My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« on: August 24, 2010, 03:44:47 AM »
Had some guests over (pizza snobs) and they devoured every slice.  Said this was my best effort yet.  Here is a pictorial of my process.  All comments welcome.

The sexy 10oz doughs.. Like a 'dead heat' in a Zepplin race... My mind is in the gutter :P  I really do love the smell of the dough and the olive oil though.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:15:09 AM by sonofapizza »


Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 03:45:25 AM »
The stretched out naked pie.  I like to build a healthy pre-crust into it before I stretch it out
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:15:55 AM by sonofapizza »

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 03:47:00 AM »
The 6&1 Sauce. medium to heavy spread.  When cooked, the inherent "sweetness" of the 6&1 becomes more transparent.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:16:25 AM by sonofapizza »

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 03:49:07 AM »
Plain cheese to start.  I always start with a plain cheese.  It is the "control" pie.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:08:07 AM by sonofapizza »

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 03:49:48 AM »
The Finished product.  Wished I had taken a pic of the underbelly.  It was perfectly flat, with an even char.  No weak spots.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:09:26 AM by sonofapizza »

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 03:51:25 AM »
A crispy, yet, foldable slice...

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 03:52:16 AM »
The underbelly

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 03:53:02 AM »
The Mush n' Pepp!  I like to use canned mushrooms for their texture
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:04:12 AM by sonofapizza »

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 03:53:58 AM »
in 550 degree heat... on mybeat-up stone.  Soapstone coming soon to an oven near me :chef:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:11:11 AM by sonofapizza »


Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 03:54:48 AM »
all done!  this pie actually turned out very nice.  Tasted great to :pizza:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:12:03 AM by sonofapizza »

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 03:56:35 AM »
one more pic

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 04:03:15 AM »
I was very pleased with the outcome of this batch tonight.  I only got a slice of each.  The 6 and 1 sauce with the pinch of cayenne was a great substitute for the crushed red pep.  The crust was very thin, yet fluffly and crispy at the same time.  Even the cornicione was a joy to eat.

Well thats the best I can do with what I've got.  I'm almost there.

Thanks for looking!
-Theo
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:18:32 AM by sonofapizza »

scott123

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 06:12:19 AM »
That's some impressive work, Theo. Did you time the bake?  ;D

Could you post your recipe/process?

Here's some thoughts.

We're getting into personal preference here, but, for traditional NY pizza, I think you're pushing the boundaries of the oil in the dough. High oil doughs aren't necessarily bad, it's just more American style than NY.

Your thickness factor is well within the spectrum of NY style pies you see on this forum, but if you compare it to your avatar, it's a little on the thick side.  If you're at 10 oz. for a 13" pie, I'd say next time go with around 9 oz.  Plug all your ingredients into a dough calculator and reduce everything until you hit a thickness factor of .075- that's about right for NY style.


That's about it. Your crumb, at least on the slice in the photo, is a tiny bit dense, but for your stone, I think it's very respectable. From my vantage point, you're just one stone away from that 'master class pizza' you mentioned earlier.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 06:16:17 AM by scott123 »

Online norma427

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 06:29:46 AM »
sonofapizza,

Your pizzas look great!  :)

Norma

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 06:35:10 AM »
Wow excellent work. Everything from the dough to the finish product looks meticulously put together.  Evrything looks quality except the canned mushrooms but that is just personal preference.  :P

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 03:41:57 PM »
Thanks everyone.  Scott - bake time was 7 minutes at 550 degrees.  I knocked off about 4 minutes, oven's max is 550.  As for the oil, I'm just using the recipie my buddy from NY told me to use (scaled down for home use though)

    "you're just one stone away from that 'master class pizza' you mentioned earlier..." - Scott123

Yeah, thnaks to you, I've got soapstone on the brain! :D

Thanks again for constructive criticism and compliments.  The Pizza tasted great!

-Theo

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 03:56:34 PM »
Theo, if the recipe isn't secret, would you mind sharing it?


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 04:02:38 PM »
Theo, if the recipe isn't secret, would you mind sharing it?

Scott you can't reverse engineer it just from the picture alone?  ???  I bet if you gave it a shot, you would come close.   ;)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 05:25:57 PM »
I'd like to know the type/brand/thickness of the stone and whether the oven has a convection feature and, if so, is it used? Also, is that semolina or cornmeal on the bottom of the pizza?

Peter
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 07:09:02 PM by Pete-zza »

Online TXCraig1

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2010, 07:04:50 PM »
Those pies are really good looking - very professional - especially that cheese pie - topnotch!

Craig
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Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2010, 04:02:59 AM »
Theo, if the recipe isn't secret, would you mind sharing it?

No secret.  True short story....The sauce is from my good freind, Jimmy from Da Bronx (it's impossible to make a bad pizza with a name like that, eh?)  He's the one who taught me most of the tricks I know.  It was 4 years ago...I'd just gotten 'laid off' from a major mortgage company, and I walked right into the pizzeria shop across from our house and said "I wanna learn how to make that pizza"  Jimmy says "Why the F should I show you?".  I replied, "Because I'm unemployed I can't afford to pay for them anymore..."  He laughed.  We became fast freinds, he hired me and taught me recepies he's been using for 25 years.

Here's the sauce recipie. from my other post. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11675.0.html.

The dough, I've been deviating from the 'Jimmy' just a tad, recipie to achieve a decent result in our home oven. 
This is the current dough recipie:
6.5 oz of filtered drinking water, room temp (64% hydration)
Just under a half a teaspoon of ADY (fleichshman's.  Any more than 1tsp and it blows up way to much)
1 teaspoon of salt
1 and a half tablespoons of Vegetable oil (its been turning out a little better than the Olive Oil lately)
wisk that all together really well, with an actual wisk...
Then add 10.5oz of Sunflower Markets generic HiGluten flour (Called manager and he confirmed it to be conagra's generic super market brand?  He may or may not be bulls**ting me) but it is 9 grams of protien per half cup = 15%
I have a Kitchen Aid Classic.  I start the mixer at speed 3, then up to 4 and down to 2 for the last 3 minutes.  Mixing time is 10-12 minutes.  It usually sticks to the bottom of the bowl, at about 2" in diameter when finally ready.  Only thing I don't do, but would really like to, is use fresh (wet) compressed yeast... Bronx Jimmy swears by it.  And I am a sucker for nostalgic unbasised food-lore.  Easier to get a royal flush in vegas, than it is to track down some fresh yeast...

Then I weigh out and ball up 2x 9.2 ounces balls and put them in tupperware, and they go right in the fridge.  no proofing..  Just slow retarding..  They do still expand, but are nice and 'taught' to the touch.  not that fluffy at all, only because I am trying to emulate the pizzeria protocol I worked at.  I hate it when the doughs look great in the pan , but then deflate after you pick them up.

 I build my crust into the doughball first.  Then I 'walk-out' the dough with my fingers, leaving a little "hill" in the middle.  I flip it upsidedown and walk it out a little more then hand strech on a smoothe surface about 5-7 rotations.  Then it's up onto the knuckles for some edge strecthing.  It gets a couple faster speed air tosses, where that little hill in the center flattens out to the same flatness, respectively.  And then I've got an evenly thick blank round , ready for toppings.

 I then spread the tomato sauce, I sprinkle a blend of finely grated Asagio, Parmasean, and Romano around the red pie (not very much at all)

Then comes the Mozz and other final topping, and into the oven she goes... :pizza:

Oh, and I dunk the doughballs into a 50/50 semolina/bread flour dish and spread some of the 50/50 around the stretching counter-top..  That is what you saw underneath the crust/ slice.
Hope this helps.

-Theo

« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 04:36:04 AM by sonofapizza »

Offline sonofapizza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2010, 04:47:05 AM »
I'd like to know the type/brand/thickness of the stone and whether the oven has a convection feature and, if so, is it used? Also, is that semolina or cornmeal on the bottom of the pizza?

Peter

Hey Pete.  The stone I think is 15" and a half inch thick?  Does that sound right?  Got it at Target of all places.  Oven is just an everyday 'gas' oven - no convection.  550 max temp....  And yes, that is semolina on the bottom and sides.  Good eye, can't believe you could spot that from my subpar camera shots.

Theo

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2010, 06:57:03 AM »
Great story, Theo.  I'm pretty close with most the pizzeria guys I deal with, but if I ever asked them to teach me, I have no doubt where they'd tell me to go :) Not that they aren't nice guys, but, this is an incredibly competitive market and you've got to hold your cards close.

Thanks for posting the recipe.  I can see what's going on with the oil, now.  According to my calculations, you're at 7%. I could say that 7% is extremely high for NY style, but, as far as I'm concerned, 7% is so high, it ceases to be NY style at all. Now, if Jimmy's pie happens to be your bliss, I don't want to step on your toes or anything.  If his is the pie you're striving for and he says use x amount of oil, use x amount of oil. You don't mess with people from the Bronx  :)  As I look at the pie in your avatar, though, it's difficult to tell because you can barely see the crumb, but I'm reasonably certain that that pie is not 7%.  I think they might have been oiling the rim before baking (which makes dough oil content even trickier to detect), but, as far as the dough ratios are concerned, it's a typical lean NY style pie- most likely no higher than 3%.

Jimmy was using Kyrol, right?  Kyrol's 14% protein. As I said before, the nutritional label on flour is worthless because all the numbers are rounded.  The Sunflower high gluten is not 15%.  My best guess is 13-ish.  It's definitely lower than Kyrol.  I bring this up because if you are trying to emulate Jimmy's pie and going high oil, you really should stick to his protein level as well, as that much oil will take a slightly weaker flour and impair gluten development (oven spring).

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2010, 07:25:55 AM »
SOP I like your posts and love the stories as well. Jimmy sounds like a great guy. Thanks for posting the recipe and story.

I have used the 50/50 bench flour mix before with good results when I made one of Peter's Papa Johns clone.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My latest NYC Pizzeria style endeavor
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2010, 08:51:37 AM »
Theo,

I took your numbers and converted everything to baker's percent format and used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the dough formulation presented below. In so doing, I used the 64% hydration figure you posted since 6.5 ounces of water by weight would be a hydration of 61.91%, not 64%. Based on the total dough batch weight and dough ball weights of 9.10 ounces, and assuming a pizza size of 13", I calculated a corresponding thickness factor of 9.10/(3.14159 x 6.5 x 6.5) = 0.068576.

High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (64%):
ADY (0.63492%):
Salt (1.875%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (6.86571%):
Total (173.37563%):
297.67 g  |  10.5 oz | 0.66 lbs
190.51 g  |  6.72 oz | 0.42 lbs
1.89 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
20.44 g | 0.72 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.5 tsp | 1.5 tbsp
516.1 g | 18.2 oz | 1.14 lbs | TF = N/A

Note: Dough batch is for two dough balls for two 13" pizzas; corresponding thickness factor = 0.068576 (0.07); no bowl residue compensation

scott123 is correct on the high amount of oil and its inconsistency with the NY style. However, with a thickness factor of only 0.07, the large amount of oil may well insure that the finished crust isn't too dry and cracker-like or overly crispy when baked with your particular oven/stone configuration. If you decide to reduce the amount of oil, you might want to increase the crust thickness (thickness factor). The expanded dough calculating tool makes it easy to make such changes (using the Thickness Factor option).

Like scott123, I place the upper limit of 3% oil for the NY style.

In any event, I think your pizzas look great and I enjoy reading about your exploits.

Peter