Author Topic: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula  (Read 30133 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2010, 01:35:56 PM »
Norma,

I would just treat the second dough ball the same way as you did the first dough ball in terms of using to make a pizza. If I recall correctly, the second dough ball got two hours of room temperature fermentation and was then placed in the refrigerator, where it will have lain in sweet repose for about four days by the time you plan to bake the pizza tomorrow.

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2010, 01:38:22 PM »
Norma,

I forgot earlier to ask you how you liked the last pizza compared with the milk-based sour dough mix version of the Lehmann pizza you made recently.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2010, 03:15:57 PM »
Norma,

I would just treat the second dough ball the same way as you did the first dough ball in terms of using to make a pizza. If I recall correctly, the second dough ball got two hours of room temperature fermentation and was then placed in the refrigerator, where it will have lain in sweet repose for about four days by the time you plan to bake the pizza tomorrow.

Peter

Peter,

The dough ball I plan to use tomorrow was bulk fermented along with the other dough ball for about 6 hrs.  I forgot to write the time on my notes, but remember it took about 2 hrs. for the starter to become active enough and then I mixed the dough, bulk fermented and then divided the bulk fermented dough into two dough balls.  The dough ball that I made into a pizza last evening was then proofed at room temperature another 2 hrs. before I reballed and then put that one in the refrigerator.  I was thinking when I was doing all this, how it could work into making a dough at market with a starter.  I will have to write on my notes the next time exactly how long all this takes.  Market is open doing the week for standholders to work for 9 hrs. each week day.  If this starter Lehmann dough does work, I could go fed the starter and mix the dough while I would be at market Friday.  The time will be the main thing and knowing when the dough bulk ferments enough to be able to then ball and cold ferment.  I can learn this some while doing the experiments at home.  I also have my Hatco unit at market to see if that can help bulk ferment the dough.  I might try at some point of using my proofing box to see how dough will bulk ferment in the proofing box at home.  Since my deli case and pizza prep refrigerator are colder, than my home refrigerator, this might also help with the dough lasting longer.  I am in and out of my home refrigerator all day and at market the coolers stay closed, on non market days.

I would try and see if this last dough ball would last until Monday, but I am too busy doing other things on Monday to be able to do the bake.  I will just watch the dough ball today and hope it will last until tomorrow.  I keep checking on it often.

Norma,

I forgot earlier to ask you how you liked the last pizza compared with the milk-based sour dough mix version of the Lehmann pizza you made recently.

Peter

I liked this pizza with the Ischia starter better than the milk-based sour dough mix version.  That also was very good, but the complex taste in the crust of this Ischia starter Lehmann dough is better in my opinion.  I need to make a trial dough ball with the Ischia starter and see how it bakes in my oven at market.  I can imagine that oven bake will go better, but don't at this time.

I am also anxious to try out the KASL versus the Kyrol flour with the milk-based sour dough.  I just don't have the time to all of this at once.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2010, 06:02:56 PM »
I made two more dough balls with the Ischia starter today to bake in my oven at market Tuesday.  I used the correct amount of starter today, fed the starter at 10 am this morning, mixed the dough with the starter at 12 pm, bulk fermented for 5 1/2 hrs and balled the dough at 5:40 pm this afternoon.  I had to run some errands and couldn’t watch the bulk fermenting dough, but when I returned home the dough looked like it was bulk fermented enough to ball.

Pictures below

Norma
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 06:05:20 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2010, 06:03:34 PM »
rest of pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2010, 08:07:16 PM »
The Ischia starter incorporated into the Lehmann dough pizza was made this evening in my BBQ grill set-up on a soapstone.  I set-up the BBQ grill a little different with the steel pan with the firebricks inside, and then placed another steel pan of top of the other pan.  I also placed wood chips for BBQ grills in an aluminum pouch, poked with holes.  The wood was cherry. 

I think this dough ball could have gone another day, because there were no bubbles on the top of the dough and the top of the dough ball was still firm, but the bottom of the dough ball sure did look like it was fermenting.  The dough ball was left out to warm up for one hour.  The dough ball was easy to open and it was dressed with my regular tomato sauce, blend of cheese and some mozzarella Steve had made.  Pepperoni was placed on top of the cheeses.  When the pie was baked, basil was placed on top. 

There was only one problem with this bake.  I forgot my BBQ grill set-up isn’t big enough for a 14" pizza, so when I launched it into the oven, the one edge hit the back firebricks and made one part of the rim dented. 

Pictures below,

Norma
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 08:12:33 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2010, 08:09:12 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2010, 08:10:48 PM »
end of pictures

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2010, 09:08:38 PM »
Norma,

To help me keep things straight, can you briefly summarize the fermentation history/times of the last two dough balls that you used to make pizzas?

Although the latest pizza was baked in a different oven configuration, can you tell us how it compared with the pizza made with the first dough ball, and which of the two pizzas you preferred, and why?

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2010, 10:02:38 PM »
Peter,

The Ishcia starter was fed on Wednesday morning and I used the formula at the beginning of this thread to make enough dough for two dough balls at: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11700.msg108007.html#msg108007   The starter was active in about 2 ½ hrs.  I then mixed the starter into the Lehmann dough and let it bulk ferment for about 6 hrs.  The first dough ball I used to make a pizza at Reply #7 was balled and then room fermented for 2 more hours, balled a second time, before it was place in the fridge.  The dough ball I used to today to make the pizza was balled right after the bulk ferment on Wednesday.  It has been cold fermenting until today. 

I enjoyed the pizza made tonight better than the one I made Friday. The crust had a better flavor in my opinion. I never have tasted a complex taste in the crust before I started making pizza with the Ischia starter. I have enjoyed the other tastes of the crusts of some of the pizzas I made and also most of them with longer fermentation times and also the preferment for the Lehmann dough, but these crusts are different.  I don’t know if it was because of the higher bake temperature or not, but I also enjoyed the char on the bottom of todays pizza and the different flavor in the crust.  If I had to pick one pizza, just based on the toppings, I would have a hard time doing that, because I liked both toppings.  The BBQ grill set-up does a quicker bake.  When I was opening the dough ball tonight, I remembered my BBQ grill set-up doesn’t bake a 14" pie, so the opened skin was a little thicker than Fridays skin.

Norma
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 08:05:21 AM by norma427 »
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Offline DenaliPete

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2010, 06:02:46 AM »
Norma it looks really fantastic.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2010, 08:02:57 AM »
Norma it looks really fantastic.

DenaliPete,

Thanks for saying the pizza looks fantastic.  :)  I am just venturing into the world of the Ischia starter, without using commercial yeast in the dough. I really like how the Ischia starter gives great flavor to the crust. with different ferment times. I still have a lot to learn about using starters and doing bulk room ferments. I still have no idea where this will take me in learning more about making pizza, but I am enjoying learning about using starters.  I really like watching how the dough ferments at room temperature and also while in the fridge, while it is cold fermenting.  From my other experiences with different doughs and using commercial yeast, this starter acts a lot different.  I did try natural starters made from the "wild yeast" in the air, but those starters didn't seem to have as much leavening power as the Ischia starter.

Norma



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Offline DenaliPete

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2010, 09:55:28 AM »
I'm glad that you mentioned that Norma,

I had recently lost my camoldi due to a long dormancy period and was attempting to revive my ischia but decided to just re-order the starters from Ed.

While I was waiting for them to arrive though I tried my hand at capturing my own wild yeast.  One I sat down on the porch outside for a few days with rye flour and water, the other I stored inside the house in a giant locking bin containing only the bowl and a few handfulls of alaskan fireweed (Trying to maximize any chance that I would catch some yeast from the fireweed itself).

In nurturing both of them I definitely notice I don't get an incredible amount of rise from either after feedings.  However, I'm not sure if this is because they are more liquidy or if they just aren't real strong.  I prefer my starter more liquidy because I feel its easier to work with and measure, but I'm very much a baby in the world of starters.  I'm not sure I would get great leavening from either culture yet at this point, though I'm really hoping the fireweed one will take off and thrive.

Anyhow, I don't want to hijack your thread Norma, but I am very interested to hear your results as you tweak and change things here and there.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2010, 10:22:38 AM »
DenaliPete,

I hope your “wild yeast” starters do take off and do well. You aren’t high jacking my thread.  I am always interested in what other members are learning and trying.  I also gain knowledge from experiments they do.

I played around with my “wild yeast” starters and a biga on this thread and replys: Toby helped me with my “wild yeast” starters.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg86978.html#msg86978
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg87064.html#msg87064
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg88032.html#msg88032
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg88104.html#msg88104
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg88349.html#msg88349
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg88877.html#msg88877
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg88991.html#msg88991
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg89606.html#msg89606

and Matt’s great dough and pies with starters at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg87169.html#msg87169
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg87186.html#msg87186
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg88278.html#msg88278

I will keep this thread updated on what I try, in case someone might also want to try the formulas I try or how long I let the dough ferment. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2010, 07:53:58 PM »
These are two pictures of one of the dough balls I made yesterday, with the corrected amount of starter.  I am going to let this dough ball try to cold ferment until Thursday.  The other dough ball I made yesterday, I am going to bake in the deck oven tomorrow.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2010, 10:11:31 PM »
The one dough ball that was made on Sunday was baked in the deck oven today.  Steve and I kept getting ready to make the pizza out of the dough ball, but we kept having to make pizzas for customers.  Since it was hot in our area today, the dough ball sat out longer than I wanted it to.  The temperature outside was 94 degrees F.  Inside, at my stand the temperatures really got hot today and standing in front of the oven, didn’t help.  Since Steve finished his WFO this morning he brought us something to celebrate with.  He makes Mead and bought some regular Mead and also some Cherry Mead.  I had never tasted Mead before, or even knew what it was.  We celebrated his finished WFO with Mead.  Steve also bought two dough balls.  One dough ball was KASL mixed with the  Ischia starter and one dough ball was made with KASL and the Camaldoli starter.  I will post pictures tomorrow of his dough and the pictures of his finished pizzas made with the starters.  He made his dough balls with the starters yesterday.

I think I am already starting to have problems with using starters.  What I can’t understand about the pie Steve and I baked in my deck oven was, this pizza didn’t turn out anything like the pizzas I made at home with the starters.  I don’t know at this time, but maybe this formula doesn’t have enough starter added.  The dough ball did get a small bubble in the top of the dough ball from sitting out for the warm-up.  Also this crust didn’t taste anything like the other pizzas I made at home, when I used more starter by accident.  The taste of this crust didn’t have the complex flavors that the pies I baked at home did.  The crust was good, but no better than the regular preferment Lehmann dough pizzas.  The pie was dressed with tomato sauce and cheese. 

We also had some interesting visitors today at market.  One man was from a pizzeria in Gettysburg and talked to Steve and me for awhile.  He said my regular preferment Lehmann dough was too green.  He told us basically how he makes his dough, but he kept talking so fast that it was hard to understand all what he said. He didn’t buy any pizza, but we showed him the dough ball made with the starter. We also had customers from Manhattan and they were also very interesting.  They talked awhile and bought slices of the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas.  They likened those pies with the better New York pies. 

Pictures below of the Mead and pizza made in the deck oven. Last picture is of a slice of Preferment Lehmann pizza.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2010, 10:12:33 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2010, 10:13:57 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2010, 10:15:14 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying Lehmann dough with Ischia starter-Stealth Formula
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2010, 10:16:22 PM »
last of pictures

Norma
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