Author Topic: "Kneading" w/a dough blade in food processor?  (Read 3120 times)

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Offline prixdc

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"Kneading" w/a dough blade in food processor?
« on: September 14, 2010, 12:44:26 PM »
As you all know, many recipes call for kneading with a dough hook in a stand mixer. Is there any sort of "conversion rate" that can be used from taking minutes on a dough hook to time in a food processor? For example, is 8 mins in a mixer the the equivalent of 2 mins in a food processor? Is using a dough blade too rough of a process to begin with? Should I just buck up and do it by hand?

After trying many, I use the recipe below. It often comes out too sticky, and the dough balls I form do not have a smooth exterior. I assume it's a kneading issue (not enough). The dough always tastes great, but it can be a little difficult to work with.


4 1/2 cups (20.25 ounces) unbleached high-gluten, bread, or all-purpose flour, chilled
1 3/4 (.44 ounce) teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon (.11 ounce) instant yeast
1/4 cup (2 ounces) olive oil (optional)
1 3/4 cups (14 ounces) water, ice cold (40F)
Semolina flour OR cornmeal for dusting

Stir together the flour, salt, and instant yeast in a 4-quart bowl (or in the bowl of an electric mixer). With a large metal spoon, stir in the oil and the cold water until the flour is all absorbed (or mix on low speed with the paddle attachment), If you are mixing by hand, repeatedly dip one of your hands or the metal spoon into cold water and use it, much like a dough hook, to work the dough vigorously into a smooth mass while rotating the bowl in a circular motion with the other hand. Reverse the circular motion a few times to develop the gluten further. Do this for 5 to 7 minutes, or until the dough is smooth and the ingredients are evenly distributed. If you are using an electric mixer, switch to the dough hook and mix on medium speed for 5 to 7 minutes, or as long as it takes to create a smooth, sticky dough. The dough should clear the sides of the bowl but stick to the bottom of the bowl. If the dough is too wet and doesn't come off the sides of the bowl, sprinkle in some more flour just until it clears the sides. If it clears the bottom of the bowl, dribble in a tea- spoon or two of cold water. The finished dough will be springy, elastic, and sticky, not just tacky, and register 50 to 55F. Cut into 3-6 pieces, and let rest in the refrigerator for 24 hours.


Offline kross

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Re: "Kneading" w/a dough blade in food processor?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2010, 01:15:24 PM »
Assuming you measure the flour by weight (you should be) and not by volume (you shouldn't be), then I can see why your dough is too sticky.  With a hydration of 69% the weight of flour, that's very high.  Plus an added 10% oil, which is also high.  I'd suggest cutting the water back to 60-65% (depending on the type of flour you are using), and the oil back to 1-2%.  So a new recipe might be:

20.25 ounces flour
12.15 ounces water
1.75 t salt
.4 ounces oil
1 t instant yeast


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: "Kneading" w/a dough blade in food processor?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 01:36:25 PM »
I have hand kneaded plenty of dough. I've recently switched over to using a food processor for kneading. I find it gives a better mix and smoother texture.  I'm not aware of any conversion factors between food processor and mixer.  It's more or less trial and error.

I do agree with Kross that the amount of oil is too high and can definitely make your dough feel much wetter. If you cut it down to 2% and leave your hydration ratio the same, you will get a much less wet feeling dough.

Here are some tips to using a food processor for kneading.
-use cold water.
-kneading times will vary on the type of flour you are using. More for lower protein flours.
-times can also vary on length of fermentation times. Less for a longer fermentation time.
-finish kneading by hand on the counter to shape the dough by doing a few folds/turns of the dough.

Good luck,
Chau
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 01:38:38 PM by Jackie Tran »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: "Kneading" w/a dough blade in food processor?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 01:40:22 PM »
prixdc,

To answer your own question about using a food processor, I think you would have to conduct an experiment in which you make an equal amount of a given dough in both a stand mixer and a food processor. I know that a 14-cup Cuisinart food processor can make a dough with a hydration of around 70%, since I did that with Steve's quick & easy NY style dough recipe described at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2790.msg24104.html#msg24104, but, as kross noted, adding 10% oil boosts the effective hydration of the dough to close to 80%. I can't say for sure, but that may be too high for a food processor without having the dough seep under the blade and gum up the works. I have used a a food processor to make a NY style dough and reported on my methods in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2189.msg19289.html#msg19289. You will see that I also commented on the use of the plastic and metal food processor blades.

Just from your description of the ingredients and accompanying text, I recognized your recipe as Peter Reinhart's Neapolitan pizza dough recipe as given, for example, at http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/001199.html. I see that the two kneading methods mentioned are hand kneading and stand mixer kneading, not kneading with a food processor. However, I don't offhand recall seeing any Reinhart pizza dough recipe where he suggests the use of a food processor.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 01:42:05 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline prixdc

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Re: "Kneading" w/a dough blade in food processor?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 03:20:47 PM »
Thanks for all the great replies so fast.
Yes, I do measure by weight, not volume. I've been going back and forth between King Arthur AP, and Gold Medal bread flour.
And Peter, yes, the recipe is Peter Reinhart's (it was my first post...not allowed to post URLs. But that's exactly where I got it from).
Thanks for the link to the other thread, definitely some good info in there. I'll try that method on Reinhart's recipe with a reduced hydration and see how it turns out!
Thanks again.

Offline apizza

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Re: "Kneading" w/a dough blade in food processor?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 07:13:37 PM »
In "American Pie" by Peter Reinhart he does have special notes about mixing with a food processor. He states all of his doughs can be made in a food processor, but with adjustments. Give it a read for some helpful hints.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: "Kneading" w/a dough blade in food processor?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 07:39:14 PM »
In "American Pie" by Peter Reinhart he does have special notes about mixing with a food processor. He states all of his doughs can be made in a food processor, but with adjustments. Give it a read for some helpful hints.

apizza,

Thank you for noting that. I found the reference to food processors at page 106 of American Pie. The required adjustment noted by Peter Reinhart is to halve the dough recipes presented in his book when using the food processor. Having made doughs using the Reinhart NY style and Neo-Neapolitan dough recipes, the combined hydration and oil percents are in the 70-72% range. That range should work with a food processor.

The best way to get an answer to the original question on the Reinhart Baker's Apprentice dough recipe is to just make an experimental dough in a food processor with an effective hydration (water plus oil) of around 80%.

Peter