Author Topic: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures  (Read 1074 times)

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Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2016, 01:57:36 PM »
I never use more than 2% sugar in any pizza dough, but now I'm thinking of trying a 1% molasses.  Pure maple is a nice flavor too. Not at all mapley.  Honey can just stay out from now on.  Your family bread of 11% sounds intriguing,  but I'm really not too sure.  It's powerful stuff!

Btw, nice looking pies, even if they aren't to your satisfaction.  I'd eat that right up!
It's a very heavy bread, but it works. I may have done the conversions wrong, too. I'm going to re-do them before the next batch I make. I onl do it once or twice a year. the recipe is 4-cups white, 2 cups wheat and 1/4 cup molasses. I converted to grams and came up with 1155 of total flour. However, like I said, I may have done wrong.

Funny thing is, the very thing that looks odd is the thing that makes that bread stand out. 


Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2016, 02:28:18 PM »
On my pie yesterday:

I did not weight the ball. I weighed the other one today and deduced that I was close to .091 TF. That's borderline bad for how I like my pies.

I baked a different batch today. It was intended to be .080, but actual TF is .085. (370g)  This batch is my normal batch aside from TF. Bake evidence is gone. I reduced cheese and sauce by 20% and 10% respectively. A bit more even bake and much tastier, but not my best. I baked it for less time than normal, but it was over-baked again. Quite odd.

I checked the oven after lunch and discovered my regulator on the BS was turned open 1/4 turn more than normal. That does not sound like much, but has a huge difference on the outcome. it changes the balance so that the outer rim stays less baked while staying on the oven for an additional minute. I must have changed it to do a test and not set it back. I remember making and adjustment to see if I coule come up with a more optimal and less wasteful warm up period. While that was a success, my oven is too hot.

My whole entire formulation requires the BS be a "less violent" oven. I say less violent only because there is no real internal temperature regulation going on. The distance from the turn table to the flame reflector steel is a factor as well, and is "adjusted" away from it, making things a bit more gentle as well. I'll take proper pictures when I have it apart sometime.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2016, 03:49:26 PM »
My whole entire formulation requires the BS be a "less violent" oven.

That's an interesting observation. The BS cooks much differently as compared to a home oven or WFO which rely heavily on IR heat. The BS is largely convection of superheated air - at NP temps anyway. Perhaps is is a bit more balanced at NY temps. Based on my experience with the oven, "violent" is an excellent word to describe it.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2016, 08:39:33 PM »
That's an interesting observation. The BS cooks much differently as compared to a home oven or WFO which rely heavily on IR heat. The BS is largely convection of superheated air - at NP temps anyway. Perhaps is is a bit more balanced at NY temps. Based on my experience with the oven, "violent" is an excellent word to describe it.
That's what took me so long to get a good NY regimen on the BS. I did a little "system" of spacers lifting the upper shelf's flame reflector portion up and out a bit. That allowed me to keep enough heat on the bottom. From there it was formulation and practice.

I must have decided that my 29th bake had enough of a defect that I needed to turn the gas up a 1/4 turn.  Not sure why I do such things. Oh yeah. Insufferable inability to stop tinkering.   ::)

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2016, 06:40:33 PM »
OK, so my Caputo Metro came in last weekend. I did my normal regimen minus a couple minutes of mixing. The formulation was smaller at .083TF. I decided to reduce oil and eliminate the honey. The latter was just so I could get a gauge on browning without added sugar of any sort. The oil was just to get a feel for tenderness without mass quantities of oil mellowing it out.

I baked for 6:30 mins at 550F. It was too long. I was so afraid of an under-baked, sauce seeping through nastiness. Had I not been afraid of that, I would have yanked out at 5:45. As a result, the chew was over-the-top, even for NY style.

Color, of course, could have been browner. Still, not too bad. Maybe more on the bottom. being done on stone, this gives more of a crunch than crisp. The crunch stayed for the lifetime of the pie. I was very impressed with that.

Taste? Better than pizza joints, but not as good as my normal AT crust. Overall pie taste was superb.

Stretch was on the extensive side, but I got it to be really thin, really quick. I had no regard for outer rim safety and it did not cost me. It's the only way I can keep them small. This never got tacky or clammy. I launched sans semolina. Just rubbed in a touch of flour.

Lastly, on overall fermentation development, it seemed a little bit smaller and less developed. That's reflected in the flavor, too. I felt like this could have easily gone another day.

Pleased overall, and looking forward to minor changes on next batch.


Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2016, 03:52:08 PM »
Low mix/knead All Trumps. .085TF, 62% effective hydration (up a couple of points). The biggest difference on this one was that I let my yeast sit in the warm water longer than the last low-mix batch. The last time I forgot it and probably rushed things. I will change my regimen to reflect this, but I now suspend my yeast in water for 8-10 minutes. I figure that making it a measured requirement instead of willy nilly guess work will only hinder my consistency.

My reward was a little bit less tacky of a dough at stretch. I have very, very minor seepage. I had a softer crisp/crunch area, but still firm and solid to the tooth. Even where it looked like it seeped.

This is 550F for 5:45. A little bit less crunch than normal, but the crumb was much more enjoyable. Overall, the pie was sensational. The outer rim, although not drying out or losing too much moisture, still lacked that extra flavor my normal 4-day bakes have. I'm 3 for 3 now on batches with flavor loss with reduced mix/knead time. This is including the somewhat reduced mixing time using the Caputo flour shown on my previous post.

Here are some pics.  (I went a bit heavy on the cheese by a whopping 10 grams. Surprising at how well it shows. )

 

Online jvp123

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2016, 05:14:06 PM »
Nice Roy. Like the crumb! 
Jeff

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 01:53:44 PM »
Nice Roy. Like the crumb!
Thanks, Jeff!    :chef:


Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 02:01:14 PM »
OK, so my next batch of Caputo hit the -day mark.

I did 100% Cracker Barrel "Sharp" Cheddar with a little extra pepperoni. (Hormel stick from Penn-Mac) Orange grease city. Right at 6:00 inside oven 550F.

The Good:
There is a tiny bit more browning in 30 seconds less bake time than the metro.
A strong desire to keeping it's crisp, just like the metro, IIRC.
Much better flavor. I could taste the 4-day CF.
Very minimal tackiness after stretch. Minimal four was sufficient.

Still needs help with.....
It should have been more developed. 4-days is normally further along.
Some form of additional sugar. Two straight bakes sans added sugar just to get a feel for the flour and differences without it.
More volume. Both batches just felt small. My next batch will go back up towards the top of my preferred TF range. Considering a bit more yeast as well, or at least enhancing the performance of what is there.
A tiny bit more chew than I like. Not much.


BTW, my Caputo Metro batch never did get good and developed. It lost it's shape and became a pancake somewhere around the late day-5 and early day-6 area. Not the flour's fault.


Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #34 on: Today at 08:24:56 PM »
I baked the second ball from the batch I bake a few days ago. This one had marked improvement on just about every aspect. We enjoyed this very much. The extra 3-days paid off of in a HUGE way. It even felt better during the stretch. It felt completed. Smelled better and tasted better, too.

This and a couple of other recent mixes were the result of trying a lighter mixing/kneading touch with the rest of my current regimen. All in all, it worked much better than similar efforts in the past. I've got a couple of other thoughts on this front and decided to try a couple of things before abandoning this exploration.

Look at the bottom crust. It's blister, spottiness seemed to be excessive. Crisp, yes, but too dry in a way, too.

6-1/2 minutes at 525F. 7-day old ball.

Online jvp123

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #35 on: Today at 08:28:14 PM »
Roy, this looks very good to me.  I always like your melt.  Perhaps a little more top heat and a little less bottom heat?   Which rack are you on and are you using convection?  Stone or steel?  Sorry if I forgot.
Jeff