Author Topic: Pie Pics...  (Read 4265 times)

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Offline MTPIZZA

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Pie Pics...
« on: April 11, 2005, 01:31:56 PM »
My recent pie used starter and IDY for a little poof....great flavor, I char a little which brings me back to coal ovens....(now when I was a young lad I wondered why a patron said...burn the bottom please)....enjoy....I sure did...


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2005, 01:44:20 PM »
MTPizza,

That's a really great looking pizza :).

Can you share the details with us, like what recipe you used, the kneading and baking process, etc.? And did you use an autolyse or anything like that?

Peter

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2005, 02:04:34 PM »
Hi Peter...would be happy to elaborate. I recently re-started a starter that I had purchased which were mentioned already in this site...gentlemen Carl's starter and the San Fran. starter at sourdo.com. I used to bake a lot of bread but stopped. I never stopped making pies- I just went back to the easy lazy way of just using IDY --poof but little else.... My preferred pie is  chewy to the tooth, crispy outside crust, soft on inside of crust, with some tooth pull when biting down..(thats funny I never realized till typing this thats what I feel ...lol)... Anyway... I like more of a tomato pie with a little cheese. A blend of flavors has to be there but I am a tomato lover here, could eat them like apples in the summer when ripe...
Ok here is my recipe that make 2--12-13inch pies when stretched. I'm a little embarrassed as I have a digital scale but I feel its not working properly so I don't really weigh ingrediants...feel and touch is what I go on and practice has gotten me results which a chef from the CIA has said was the best pie he ever had...so I'm doing something right....

1 C. Red Mill Organic flour
1 C. Organic Bread Flour ( I've used serveral diff brands with no loss of flav.)
2/3 C. + - distilled water
1/2 C. starter
1/4 tsp IDY
1 tsp. sea salt
2 tsp. my blend of oil -- canola with virgin oil mixed

Toppings:
Sargento Mozz / Prov blend  add to your liking
Muir Glen fire roasted italian plum tomatoes raw out of can
squirt of olive oil mix....
sprinkling Oregano

I use a good ole' bread machine on dough cycle it has an autolyse cycle built in...then cut doughs in half shape a tight skin... a little oil in tupperware containers and put them in the basement...The reason for this is the frig is a little too cold....my basement is perfect for wine and pizza dough...cool....not cold.....leave dough for 6 hours then put in frig overnight till next day.....You can see in the dough pics how much the yeast is working on the dough...gas holes pushing up ....Next pull out and shape add toppings & bake!!  The pizza I showed was an onion pie

Offline bakerboy

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2005, 04:24:06 PM »
Thats a solid pie there!! Onion...I'm droolin like homer simpson.  2 things:
1.  I, like you, have found out that in most cases (unless you use warm h2o) if you mix your dough and put it directly in the fridge, it doesn't move (rise) hardly at all.  Giving it a few hours to "catch a breath" THEN retarding overnite has worked much better for me.  Otherwise you may be waiting for 2 or 3 days and i personally never liked the texture of my pie dough after 2 or 3 days of retardation.

2.  I love that charred crust.  I could never bake my pies like that because my customers would say its "burned".  Frustrating.  Nice to see pizza made by people who understand color is flavor

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2005, 05:14:23 PM »
MTPIZZA,
Your first photographs are blockbusters! First rattle out of the box and you post that?

Are you kiddin me? That level of char is exemplary. I have labored many months to achieve that char. Please share with us the heat you have access to.

Wow!
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline itsinthesauce

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2005, 05:31:37 PM »
Outstanding pies. What temperature did you bake them at?

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2005, 08:17:35 AM »
Thanks all for the kind words. I'm going to be getting weights for Pete-zza so he can crunch the numbers, I'm curious as how they will look in weight form.. I made garlic foccocia (sp?) last night with the other dough. I didn't get any pics as I was running late for an appointment and my wife was drooling over it. I use a square dark high sided pan which measures about 7"X7" on each side. The dark pans as with scicilian thick crust makes the dough nice and dark as well. My next pies hopefully will have fresh basil leaves added now summer is finally kicking into gear. Its hard to find in my area until the warmer wheather. The temp of the oven though I must confess I don't have a temp gauge has to be around 750 degrees its a counter pizza oven and I have to be careful cause it can incinerate the bottom if not monitoring. I truly believe that all great pies on this site benefit from the aging process if mixing and volume of ingrediants are followed. Lets face it how many have eatin day old lasagna, or anything else for that matter which have aged and blended and matured the flavors. Once you establish this rest period for the doughs you produce....flavor will come forward. Bakers don't rush great artisan breads, proof boxes, autolyse, biga's, ferments, all create that wonderful taste we all crave...no different in pizza!!!  :P

Offline varasano

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2005, 11:52:54 AM »
Excellent looking pies. Have you tried testing with less rise in the dough.  I agree on the cold ferment 100% but I'd suggest a shorter warm rise.  It will actually have the final product be lighter, even though the dough is denser when you spread it.

Jeff

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2005, 02:45:09 PM »
Jeff will give your suggestion a try. Its like babysitting, make the dough then check for outside influences, time, temp, when just right...next step, but the proof is in the tasting and oh man thats what its all about.  ;D.. After checking my ingrediants I said I used distilled water, but I may have mislead, I use H20 out of the tap, but I have two bottles which I store the water in and rotate them never using the fresh tap water, waiting till the cholorine has disipated so as not to affect the yeast. After all cholorine is there to kill bacteria in drinking water and it must have some affect on the yeast with their ability to multiply.  Acidity of the H20 was also a thought, hard or soft water or the calcium in the water. I've often heard where NY water was the best for baking artisan breads or bagels...is there truth to this?? I do notice a taste difference when traveling around, everywhere you go the water is different tasting...I have relatives in NJ and they had well water and that tasted very metalic I'm sure that would affect a the dough.... so we are all slaves to the environment in which we live to some extent!...

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2005, 07:05:24 PM »
Ok Peter here goes, I set my digital scale to grams I hope this is what you can use.... I weighed the measuring cup and it was 34grams I then scooped the flour and leveled it off as I always do and remeasured and it came to 160 grams total so minus the 34 = 126 grams of flour. Then I did the same with a liquid measuring cup and came up with 162 grams of de-chlorinated water. The starter weighed in at 126 grams. As for the oil, sea salt, IDY they are in my recipe above and I coulded read them on the scale, but I'm sure with all the experience you have you can make the conversions pretty close on the small ingrediants...thanks for any and all work you do on this one!....


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2005, 12:36:43 PM »
MTPIZZA,

Let me see if I understand your measurements correctly. If the flour weighed 126 g. (4.4 oz.), I assume that that was for just one cup of flour. Is that correct? Otherwise, the amount of water you weighed, 162 g. (5.71 oz.) would be more than the flour (4.4 oz.). Doubling the weight of flour would yield a total flour weight of 252 g., or 8.89 oz. This would represent a hydration percent of around 64% (8.89/5.71). That would be a credible number for hydration percent.

Your starter, at 126 g., converts to 4.44 oz. That would be around 50% by weight of flour (for 2 cups). That seems to be a lot, although it might be in the range used for bread doughs, such as sourdough, for example. I assume you either tared out the vessel you used to weigh the starter or you calculated its actual weigh as you did with the flour. Would you say that your starter is liquidy, like a batter, or more like a dough consistency? Also, do you know the ratio of water to flour in your starter?

Did I get the numbers right? If so, I can switch my scale over to grams and try weighing some of my flours, along with water, to see if I can confirm your numbers.

Peter

Offline DKM

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2005, 03:55:16 PM »
Very nice, sir.

I just got some cravings.

DKM
I'm on too many of these boards

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2005, 07:54:54 PM »
Thanks DKM...I'm sorry but no slices were left or I would share with you...
Peter...I looked at my figures once again and yes the flour weight was for 1 Cup only, you are correct-- if you double the figure to obtain the 2 cups in the recipe
( Iused a plastic one cup flour scoop which weighed in at 34 grams which I subtracted to get the flour weight). As for the starter I did weigh it like the flour only I used a liquid measuring cup and zero'ed it out for the weight. My starter is like thick pancake batter, pourable but elastic and liquidity all at once... I'm sorry but I really can't give you a great breakdown on my starter as I just replenish with a scoop of flour and about a cup of water each time I take some out of my container...(I'll take a pic of the starter next time its out of the frig and its fully bubbling away--its sleeping now).... I did'nt know which measurement you needed either grams or oz's...I figured my scale would give a more accurate account in grams.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2005, 11:04:07 PM »
MTPIZZA,

You done good :).

I went back and weighed the major ingredients in your recipe in grams and got pretty much the same numbers you got. I didn't have the same two flours so I used general all-purpose flour and KA bread flour as proxies. The KA bread flour was a bit heavier than the all-purpose flour but they were close enough to assign equal weights, if for no other reason than to simplify the math a bit.

The reason I asked you about the characteristics of the starter was to see if your starter is anything like mine. It is, and when I weighed 1/2 cup of my starter I got almost the identical weight you did (within 1 gram). My starter is basically a 50/50 ratio of flour and water, and has a pancake batter-like consistency. For the remaining ingredients, I used conversion factors to convert from volumes to weights. I converted all the weights back into ounces, using 28.35 grams to the ounce. (I also weighed the volumes of the heavier ingredients on my scale in ounces to confirm the converted numbers). The final recipe, including baker's percents, looks as follows:

100%, Flour: 4.5 oz. Bob's Red Mill organic flour (1 c.) + 4.5 oz. Organic bread flour (1 c.)
58.9%, Water, 5.30 oz. (2/3 c.)
48.9%, Starter, 4.40 oz. (1/2 c.)
0.33%, IDY, 0.03 oz. (1/4 t.)
2.44%, Sea salt, 0.22 oz. (about 1 t.)
3.67%, Canola/virgin olive oil blend, 0.33 oz. (2 t.)

If you add up all the weights in the above recipe, you will see that it comes to 19.28 oz. You indicated in your earlier posting that you used the dough made from your recipe to make two 12-13-inch skins. That translates to about 9.64 oz. per dough ball. I also calculated the thickness factor for your dough based on the 12-13-inch size, and it is about 0.07 for the 13-inch size and about 0.085 for the 12-inch size. Knowing the baker's percents and the thickness factors allows one to make a dough ball corresponding to any desired size (diameter) of pizza.

Once you have studied what I have done, if you would like to experiment with a different size, I'd be more than happy to take a stab at converting the recipe to whatever size you select. Or, to show you how it is done, if you'd like.

Peter

« Last Edit: April 13, 2005, 11:38:50 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline varasano

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2005, 11:34:51 PM »
Regarding the water, I'd use a good bottled water. My first choice would definitely be Dasani. Second would be Aquafina.

I use a good multi stage carbon filter for my whole house.

I see you guys are still recalculating recipes. Use this spreadsheet. Its a lot easier:

http://www.think2020.com/jv/Dough/PizzaRecipe.xls

Jeff
« Last Edit: April 13, 2005, 11:49:10 PM by varasano »

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2005, 08:30:01 AM »
Thanks guys, I'm checking out this spreadsheet, it looks great...will definately use. Thanks for converting my recipe, I'm making a copy for my files right now!...As for the water, I'm getting some of these from the store next time I go. I actually have a Pur-Water pitcher which you add tap water and it filters through taking out impurities...so I'll give that a try as well and take notice of the leavening if it has a big difference or taste of the cooked crust at the end. I usually make a pie over the weekend so I might not post new pics till next week...thanks again!

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2005, 05:11:43 AM »
I would like just to highlite a point:

The dough in the first picture: That single air-ball is a clear sign of too much yeast or too much fermentation.

It is not the first time I see a dough like this on this forum, but nobody seam to notice it.

Ciao

Marco

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Pie Pics...
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2005, 07:18:16 AM »
With regards to the dough rise...I may have had my starter too active when I mixed my dough, along with the IDY they both must have contributed to the large amount of fermentation. I guess it stems from my bread baking days where if you did'nt have enough push your bread was dense. Its a good point and I'm going to reduce some of my amounts to adjust for the over proofing, varasano also commented along these lines. He bases the expansion or rising of the crust due to steam created when baked rather than yeast doing the complete job. So this must also be where an artisan of pie baking gets his skills...a balance to which the dough matures properly and then is baked correctly to achieve nirvana....