Dear Martin and others. I should say at this point that I am not the forum expert on the Bosch Universal Mixer. There are many members here who have been using this machine much longer than I have, so I hope they will jump in with their experience and opinions. After doing a few experiments with the Bosch, I was introduced to the Tartine Bread book (via the forum) and subsequently spent many months exploring many variations of that technique. I have only recently gone back to experimenting with the Bosch, so my experience with this machine is very limited at this point. Having said that I will answer your questions as best as I can.
I tried my new Bosch the first time this morning. I was hand mixing up to now and recently achieved a smooth dough, windowpaning.
Now I am seeking to reproduce this with the Bosch or even improve.
I mixed up 70/30 HG/00 with a 60% hydration and 2.8% salt to totally 750grams of dough weight.
I followed the suggested procedure you have described before.How long were you hand mixing for? Can you give me a detail account of your process including rest periods involved? I don't know the exact flours you are using and I also don't know if HG flours in Vietnam is similar to HG flour here in the US. Assuming the protein content of your HG flour is 13-14% protein, a 60% hydration seems a bit low (I normally use a hydration of 70% for such a blend) for that blend BUT from the picture you provided, the dough looks on the wet side to me. So i would bet that your HG flour is much lower in protein than what we get in the US. Nothing wrong with high hydration doughs, but the bosch with it's standard plastic mixing bowl does not do well with high hydration doughs. If you want to do high hydration doughs in the bosch, then you need to buy the metal mixing bowl with the mixing arms that come out the bottom of the bowl (not the top like the metal bowl and plastic bowl you have). This bowl is made specifically for mixing dough only.
I don't have this metal dough bowl, but member dmaxdmax has reported that it does a good job with high hydration doughs.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=15477.0 Reply #9 & #11
From your picture, you need to lower your hydration if you want the bosch with your current bowl to mix that dough. Or do high hydration doughs by hand using your current methods.
Put in the water, dissolved the salt and then the flour (IDY distributed in the flour).
after the ingredients came together the mass concentrated around the center (see picture). gave it 30min rest. Pulled out the dough... it was very sticky. Gave it some stretch and folds. Put it back to the machine and had a 10 min more kneading.
To get it smooth i to it out of the machine and gave it more folds and kneaded it with my fist, adding a bit of bench flour and finally achieved the dough in the texture i wanted to achieve.
The dough was still sticky and not yet windowpaning at all even after 30min rest after initial mix and after the folds and 10min more machine work.(as opposed to my hand kneaded doughs). Only after THE LAST step of hand kneading it was maybe 5min more i got the supple texture.]Put in the water, dissolved the salt and then the flour (IDY distributed in the flour).
after the ingredients came together the mass concentrated around the center (see picture). gave it 30min rest. Pulled out the dough... it was very sticky. Gave it some stretch and folds. Put it back to the machine and had a 10 min more kneading.
To get it smooth i to it out of the machine and gave it more folds and kneaded it with my fist, adding a bit of bench flour and finally achieved the dough in the texture i wanted to achieve.
The dough was still sticky and not yet windowpaning at all even after 30min rest after initial mix and after the folds and 10min more machine work.(as opposed to my hand kneaded doughs). Only after THE LAST step of hand kneading it was maybe 5min more i got the supple texture.
The reasons for your difficulty is probably due to several reasons. First off, I think your dough is a bit wet as mentioned above. 2ndly, you are using "the small dough batch adaptor", the white sleeve that goes over the shaft that has the 2 small fins at the bottom. That thing is worthless for making small batches and has the opposite effect. It actually PREVENTS the making of small batches. The 2 fins help hold the small batch of dough to the center shaft and prevents the dough from mixing. I posted about this on page 1 in the first post.
"After the initial mix, again I was surprise to see the dough get trapped in the middle wrapping itself around the small batch adapter (that slips over the central shaft of the bowl). I decided to remove this small batch adapter and noticed that the dough bagan to be mixed and kneaded. So at this point, I would say that the small batch adapter is useless. I'll have to do a few more test, but the initial result was pretty convincing." Member Bobino414 also did the test and confirmed the findings on page 3 in reply #42. My response in reply #43.
1) when you say wrapping around the center shaft. Would that be the picture i attached, where the outer arms don't touch the dough, but the inside paddle of the dough hook goes through the dough while kneading ?Yes. For small batches of dough to mix/knead properly it should remain in the bottom of the bowl and away from the center post. For bigger batches, the dough will come in contact with the center post which is okay b/c the rest of it is still being mixed/kneaded.
2) when do you achieve a light windowpaning ? after the initial 2 minutes, after the 30-40 min rest, after the final mix or only after the last mix and hand treating a bit further ?Impossible to put a time on this b/c it varies with the flour and hydration and how much gluten has developed. But generally speaking I do not mix until the dough is window paning. That comes after a rest period of about 45m to an hour. The window paning (gluten) will become ever so stronger, the longer the dough sits. For your specific hydration of dough try this...
For now, leave the hydration the same. Remove the small dough adaptor (white thing that slips over the center post). After a 2 min mix on speed 1, let the dough rest for 45m to 1 hour. Now do about 6-8 folds, not just a couple of times, but ball the dough up. This should take more folds if your dough is wet as it is in the picture. Then place the dough ball on the bottom against one of the arms and turn on the mixer. It should mix and stay in the bottom of the bowl. If it continues wrapping it self up in the center, then remove the dough and reball again, rest 5 min, reball again, and then back into the mixer. It should work. If it doesn't, I would lower your hydration further.
3) do you use bench flour during the hand tuning process ?No. If you feel like you have to, it may be a sign that the dough is too wet to begin with and didn't have enough flour to begin with.
4).... What you have is the standard bowl made of metal instead of plastic, the white plastic small batch adaptor loaded onto the center post, then the mixing arms attached over that. Remove the mixing arms, remove and keep (or toss) the small batch adaptor as you won't be using it again, then replace your mixing arms on top. If the tips in response to your 2nd question don't help, then you either have to do high hydration doughs by hand or get the metal mixing bowl with the mixing arms that come out the bottom, or lower your hydration a bit.
I hope that helps Martin,
Chau
