Author Topic: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments  (Read 44107 times)

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Offline kneader65

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #225 on: February 16, 2013, 02:16:43 AM »
Quote
Kneader,  you have to add the water first,  then,  do as steel says above.


Logically whether water goes in first or flour goes in first should not make a difference.That is my view unless someone can convince me why the sequence is important.


Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #226 on: February 16, 2013, 06:28:42 AM »


Logically whether water goes in first or flour goes in first should not make a difference.That is my view unless someone can convince me why the sequence is important.
Try it and you'll see. Can't speak for the Bosch, but in the DLX it makes a huge difference. In a KA or food processor, you start with flour/dry ingredients and add water to the required consistency, for a satisfactory result. If you do that with an Electrolux DLX/Assistent/enter-your-favorite-name-for-this-machine, you'll run into all sorts of mishap. Start with liquids and add flour, and you get a beautiful dough. With dough preparation it's not just the final recipe that counts but also what happens during mixing. Different ways of mixing and kneading will result in doughs with different qualities. And some of the procedures may in fact be irreversible...

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #227 on: February 16, 2013, 08:51:07 AM »
Logically whether water goes in first or flour goes in first should not make a difference.That is my view unless someone can convince me why the sequence is important.
kneader65,

As I noted in Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15453.msg152196/topicseen.html#msg152196, there are many ways to skin the cat, and that can vary depending on whether you are talking about a professional setting or a home setting and maybe even the type of dough you are trying to make. Several years ago, when I was an innocent and new to pizza making, at least from the standpoint of the science and technical aspects of pizza making, I postulated that it made more sense to add the flour first and the water later. I said this at Reply 15 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2141.msg18927.html#msg18927. As you can see from David's post that followed (Reply 16), his understanding was that professional Italian pizza makers added the water first in 90% of the cases. Marco later chimed in on this matter, quite vociferously, at Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2141.msg18972.html#msg18972. Usually when a number is above 90%, there is a good reason for it. But I will allow that maybe that doesn't apply or extend to all home mixers, a possibility that I duly noted in paragraph 8 of Reply 1 referenced above.

Peter

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #228 on: February 16, 2013, 09:41:49 AM »
Kneader,  do not have a concrete answer for you,  but I was BS with that mixer the first time I used it so I read the manual.  Wet first,  cured.  In fact,  go wet to dry,  100 percent of your recipe in at the same time before mixing,  put on  the cover and go to town.  It will do the rest for you nicely if you give a rest after combining.  If you are determined to not like it you never will.  -Marc

Offline kneader65

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #229 on: February 17, 2013, 07:51:41 AM »
Many thanks Peter and Marc for your very valuable responses.I do take your point that if 90% of professional pizza makers are adding water first,there must be a reason behind it.I would follow this method in my next batch and see if it that makes a difference to the  dough finish and quality.Peter once again thanks for digging up the threads to enlighten me!

Offline kneader65

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #230 on: February 21, 2013, 06:17:33 PM »
An update:
I tried the "liquid first" mixing method  on the Bosch with a batch consisting of 1000 gm all purpose flour(10.8% protein),600ml water,3 gm yeast,20 gm salt,20 gm sugar and 50 ml oil.I added all the liquid ingredients except oil into the bowl and started the mixer on speed 1.Then  added flour slowly taking about 2 minutes approximately.A slurry first formed and then turned into a sticky and moderately stiff mass.This time I omitted the autolyse step as I felt it made the dough "too soft" to knead and had a greater tendency to wrap on the centre shaft.The dough mass stayed at the bottom of the bowl and got kneaded by both the arms for about 5 minutes.Thereafter it started wrapping on the centre shaft.I started adding oil slowly along the centre shaft which helped to push the dough away towards the kneading arms.Around the 10 minutes mark the dough became very soft and shiny just the way I wanted.I stopped the kneading at 12 minutes.Did a few stretches and folds.It windowpaned OK with a few tears after a 30 minute rest.Did a cold rise for 24 hrs and the pizza tasted a lot better than before .

I would like to see the dough staying at the bottom of the bowl during the entire kneading process.For that to happen I may have to drop the hydration to around 55% for the flour I am using.I am coming around to the view that with the Bosch mixer you can not get hung up on the  hydration level much, as  proper kneading is the important thing and final hydration level needs to be accepted as a  a result.It is likely to be a few percentages lower than your target level.If hydration level is very important, a planetary mixer would be more suitable in my opinion.I am happy to be corrected by the more experienced on this forum.




Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #231 on: February 21, 2013, 08:18:07 PM »
Kneader,  also remember your 5% oil figure is almost acting like water.  For your 10.8 flour I am sure your 65%ish hydration ration is 5-10 percent higher than your flours rated absorption.  Also,  there is never a need to add your flour slowly with this mixer.  Just do it all at once and be done with it.  Lastly,  I think you would be better served adding your oil to the water.  I have never ever noticed a difference in outcome by when the oil is added.  Curious,  what type of dough is that recipe for?  -marc

Offline scott r

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #232 on: February 21, 2013, 10:14:24 PM »
I agree with marc, no benefit of adding slowly with this mixer... you will probably just end up with over mixed dough.    Just do a short burst to combine everything at first, then do the bulk of your mix after a rest.... or just rambo through it right from the get go.  either way works.   I have tested oil later in the mix vs. right with everything else, and again marc is correct, no difference.   Some of those mixing tricks work better with fork and planetary mixers... not this one.    Its simpy the most efficient combining machine there is (even over my spiral mixer and my old fork mixer)     With the bosch definitely try a dryer dough than what you are used to at first... just to see what it can do.    No need to mix very long, either.   good luck!       
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 10:19:58 PM by scott r »

Offline steel_baker

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #233 on: May 23, 2013, 02:01:35 PM »
I became very used to adding all of my wet ingredients before flour & then IDY on top when I first started baking bread in a breadmaker many years ago. If you want to use the timer capability, you have to put the IDY on top of the flour where it will stay dry for however many hours it is until the machine turns on and starts the mixing process.

When I started making pizza dough seriously a number of years back, I just stuck with it and it always seemed to work great.

 :chef:
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Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #234 on: February 09, 2014, 11:48:27 AM »
A question about making small batches: when you write about a 400g dough, is that 400g of flour or 400g of the combination of all of the ingredients (flour, water, oil, etc.)?



Offline steel_baker

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #235 on: February 09, 2014, 11:49:50 AM »
400 grams of flour only.
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #236 on: February 09, 2014, 12:27:47 PM »
In the meantime, I have seen this earlier response that seems to say the opposite:

AgPie, a 400gm batch of dough refers to combined weight of all the ingredients.

If 400g includes water and other ingredients, then yes, that's pretty small.

But if 400g refers only to the flour, then it's not that small.


Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #237 on: February 09, 2014, 02:06:19 PM »
A question about making small batches: when you write about a 400g dough, is that 400g of flour or 400g of the combination of all of the ingredients (flour, water, oil, etc.)?
400g of dough is 400g. i would assume this is a 13-14" pie
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Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #238 on: February 09, 2014, 02:12:02 PM »
400g of dough is 400g. i would assume this is a 13-14" pie

But above he wrote that he meant 400g of flour only...

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #239 on: February 09, 2014, 05:25:30 PM »
I had realized that I originally posted this question on the wrong topic. To those who own the Universal Plus, what is the 1st speed RPM? Also, has anyone made a full batch of 15lb dough (please include hydration%) in it and if so, how would you rate it's performance? Thank you in advance.

Anthony
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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #240 on: February 09, 2014, 10:14:56 PM »
10# in the white bowl is tops for me and it makes awesome dough.

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #241 on: February 12, 2014, 08:25:38 PM »
Do you know by chance the speed of the first gear?

Anthony
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #242 on: February 13, 2014, 12:26:22 PM »
I like to do about 2000 G FLOUR so around 4 1/2 pounds.  a nice 12 dough balls ( 2 artisan trays) around 250-265G
JOhn
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Offline Bobino414

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #243 on: February 13, 2014, 12:30:00 PM »
Speed #1 is 133 rpm.

Bob

Offline JimmyJazz

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #244 on: February 13, 2014, 12:44:11 PM »
Did ya get dizzy and fall over when counting that Bob???  :)

Speed #1 is 133 rpm.

Bob

Offline Bobino414

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #245 on: February 13, 2014, 01:18:18 PM »
The sacrifices never end for my pizza buddies.  Pass the Dramamine.

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #246 on: February 13, 2014, 02:42:28 PM »
Thank you for your responses gentlemen!

 A kind thank you Bob for documenting the #1 speed, I couldn't find the info anywhere.

 Although it is not all that appealing to the eye, function over form is present in these machines I feel. Seems like a viable alternative for making a large batch of dough without splurging on a 10-12qt spiral/planetary mixer or something along those lines.
Now all I need is for it to stop snowing so I can fire up the oven again.


Anthony
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The Lunch Room http://atthelunchroom.tumblr.com/

Offline Bobino414

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #247 on: November 24, 2014, 03:37:48 PM »
I thought the Bosch Universal was built like a tank, until today when the tranny died.

Purchased 4 1/2 years ago.

So if you have one and the paddles bog down or don't spin under load check metal teeth on top of the base unit-if the teeth are not square you have your answer.  Bosch wants $140 plus shipping it there to repair.  After repairing KA trannys I got the Bosch thinking I would not have to deal with that issue again -Wrong!  That said I still prefer the Bosch.


 

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