Author Topic: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments  (Read 32133 times)

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2010, 10:35:54 PM »
Quote
The only reason I make these tiny batches is b/c my wife is on some special dieting program (shhh!!!) getting ready for a cruise in a few months.

Chau,

Nice outfit!  ;D

But I hope your wife's not going alone on this cruise. :-D
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/


Offline ponzu

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2010, 11:36:41 PM »
Awesome dough.
How did you do the initial mix mentioned in the video prior to the hand kneading?

Put me down as one who would love to see a video of your hand kneading routine.

AZ

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #82 on: October 09, 2010, 07:48:05 AM »
Awesome dough.
How did you do the initial mix mentioned in the video prior to the hand kneading?

Put me down as one who would love to see a video of your hand kneading routine.

AZ

Thanks Alexi, I just mixed up a batch in the Bosch.  If there is further interest, I'll shoot a video next time I hand knead dough.   I'll have to figure out how to shoot video with the cam corder and upload.  A little more complicated for me than shooting 1 hand videos with my cell phone. 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #83 on: October 09, 2010, 09:53:51 AM »
Haven't made dough in a week so going through withdrawals.   :-D

Minimally Kneaded dough in the Bosch

Wanted to see if I could get dough to window pane with a minimal knead time in the Bosch.   This dough was kneaded for 4 minutes.   All ingredients were dumped in and turned on to level 1 (slow mixing).  I stopped the mixer after every minute to feel the dough and then timed another 1 minute of kneading until 4 minutes was reached.

This is what the dough looked like right after coming out of the Bosch.  First pic, the dough looks really white b/c of the flash.

I will post videos of how the dough behaves after a 40m and 1h post knead rest. 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #84 on: October 09, 2010, 10:00:24 AM »
In these 2 videos, you'll see how the dough behaves after a 40 min rest and then a 1 hour rest.

The main thing to note here is how much stronger the dough got after the additional 20min of rest (after 1 hour of total rest time).   This can be done with hand kneading as well.   When hand kneading, mix the dough well and knead it for a few minutes additional minutes.  The exact times will depend on your hydration ratio and the strength of flour being used.  Ball it up, cover and rest for 1 hour.   When you come back to it, the appearance, consistency, smoothness, silkiness of the dough will have changed dramatically over the extended rest period.   When hand kneading the same dough, I usually have to mix/knead for about 6 minutes to achieve a similar result to the Bosch's 4 minutes of kneading.   Let time do the additional kneading for you.   All you have to worry about when hand kneading is getting an even mixture.  Making sure the ingredients are mixed well and evenly.  This can be accomplished by using a strainer or sifter to sift the flour. 

After 40 min rest
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS-3BbG9mIg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS-3BbG9mIg</a>


After 1 hour rest
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N9zwb1jKp0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N9zwb1jKp0</a>


After 1 hour, the dough felt really great.  Very smooth, silky, & strong.  Window paned very nicely.  I have high hopes for this dough and will post pictures of the pies later. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 10:09:00 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #85 on: October 09, 2010, 12:47:11 PM »
Hey,thanks for pointing me in the direction of this link with pics and etc.The dough looks GREAT!
You need to be running your own pizza place now if you havent started yet!
 :chef:

Loved the other pics too! Have more guts than I do to post pics online here of myself.
 :-D
-Bill

Offline gtsum2

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #86 on: October 09, 2010, 02:13:45 PM »
the dough looks great Chau..nice vids!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #87 on: October 09, 2010, 02:35:50 PM »
Thanks CP and Gtsum!


So it's been about 5 and half hours since I mix/kneaded the dough.   I made a quick video showing how I ball up the dough using some stretch and folds to trap air into the dough.  This trapped air will get pushed out to the rim later as I open the pizza skin and we will see them as the nice large voids in the rim.   I only do this for NY style pizzas and not NP.

I took the video with my cell phone propped up and consequently the video is sideways so just pick up your computer and turn it sideways to get the video to show right side up.

The dough at this point looks and feels fantastic.  My only concern is that I used 0.05% cake yeast that is 2 weeks old.  Hopefully the cake yeast isn't on it's last leg.  We will see later tonight. 

How I ball pizza dough video
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfUONu_gnBk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfUONu_gnBk</a>


I wanted to clarify a point I made on the video that is misinformation.  At one point I said that doing the stretch and folds "creates" gluten.  It doesn't.  What I meant to say is that it strengthens the gluten matrix that is already there.  Doing too many folds or balling a dough too many times can create a really tough dough to open later.  You need to balance these out with the hydration ratio and knead times.  I can't give exact times, but it's basically done through the feel of the dough.   As I'm balling the dough, I'm feeling how slack it is and that tells me approximately how many folds I can put in.  Again, if I'm working with a lower hydration dough (using the same flour), I knead less and do less folds.   If I'm using a lower protein flour then I knead more and do more folds if the dough requires it.   This is why developing the feeling for the dough is important.  You can vary your flour, hydration ratios, knead times, to get that certain feel in the dough.  Takes time and practice, but worth it in the end I think. 

Chau
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 04:08:15 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline gtsum2

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2010, 03:11:59 PM »
Thanks CP and Gtsum!


   I only do this for NY style pizzas and not NP.

I took the video with my cell phone propped up and consequently the video is sideways so just pick up your computer and turn it sideways to get the video to show right side up.




how come you dont do it for Neo pie??

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2010, 03:22:23 PM »
Really enjoyed the video...wow the dough balls looks great!
Are you happy with the mixer at home?
 :)
-Bill


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #90 on: October 09, 2010, 03:43:40 PM »
Shaun, I guess you could if you want too.  When I trap these big air bubbles, they tend to expand and protrude through the rim with the oven spring.   At the high heat of a NP bake, these large bubbles tend to burn to a crisp easily and can create fire spots on the rim.  Takes more time to have to blow out the fires.  When doing NP style pies, I go for a more evenly leoparded looking rim.  When doing NY-elite style, I like a few large & dark/burnt air bubbles here and there.  Adds to the look I guess.   

CP - I do like the mixer very much.  It's price well and mixes an awesome dough.  Well worth the money.  But again, I have to say that I can mix an almost equally good dough by hand.  Having said that, I don't particularly like to mix large batches by hand.  It's rare that I do that anyway.

b/c I have a mixer now, I'm currently experimenting with larger batches and freezing leftover doughballs so that I can just defrost and bake without having to make dough each time. 

I can also make this quality of dough with a food processor and I have done it with a KA mixer once.  Sorry to be presumptuous, but I'm confident that I can mix this type of dough using any mixer not just the bosch.  I am really happy with the Bosch, but any mixer will get the job done.   When I have some more time, I will make a video on how to hand knead pizza dough.  it will take less than 10 minutes of mixing/kneading by hand and another 45m-1 hour of rest and your dough will be looking like mine. 

Chau
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 07:01:01 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline gtsum2

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #91 on: October 09, 2010, 03:48:59 PM »
thanks for the info...also, how does one go about freezing doughballs?  I would really like to do that to always have some ready...

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #92 on: October 09, 2010, 04:02:58 PM »
I have very little experience in this area, but the few times I've done it they have all worked fine.  I just take a doughball, dust it with some bench flour and place it into a ziplock sandwich bag (freezer bags work better).  When you go to use it, you can thaw it in the fridge and then proof it at room temps or take it from freezer to room temps directly.

You just have to pay attention to how much yeast you use and vary your thawing/proofing times to match.  For example, with today's doughballs, I used 0.05% cake yeast, which I expect and hope it will take about 12 hours to ferment at room temps of 75F.

If I freeze the dough after it's been out only 1 hour, then I may want to allow for a 10-11 hour proof plus the time it takes to thaw at room temps.

If I take the same dough and thaw it in the fridge, it can sit in the fridge another 3 days to a week and then I would just proof it on the counter 1-3 hours depending on how long it was in the fridge.  Some trial and error should tell you a lot about how much yeast to use vs proofing times are needed.   

For today's dough, I had these sitting out at room temps for close to 6 hours.  I dusted 2 of the balls with flour and placed them into ziplock bags and into the freezer.   I plan on taking them out of the freezer and placing them on the counter at room temps for about 8 hours before baking.  I figure 2 hours for thawing and maybe another 6 hours or so for proofing.  Keep in mind I'm also going to be watching the dough to see how it rises/progresses as the final indicator of readiness.

Don't forget to use a sharpie and write the % of yeast on the bag and how long it should take to proof. Then you have a general idea unless you always use the same amount of yeast. 

Chau

Offline gtsum2

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #93 on: October 09, 2010, 04:22:28 PM »
I have very little experience in this area, but the few times I've done it they have all worked fine.  I just take a doughball, dust it with some bench flour and place it into a ziplock sandwich bag (freezer bags work better).  When you go to use it, you can thaw it in the fridge and then proof it at room temps or take it from freezer to room temps directly.

You just have to pay attention to how much yeast you use and vary your thawing/proofing times to match.  For example, with today's doughballs, I used 0.05% cake yeast, which I expect and hope it will take about 12 hours to ferment at room temps of 75F.

If I freeze the dough after it's been out only 1 hour, then I may want to allow for a 10-11 hour proof plus the time it takes to thaw at room temps.

If I take the same dough and thaw it in the fridge, it can sit in the fridge another 3 days to a week and then I would just proof it on the counter 1-3 hours depending on how long it was in the fridge.  Some trial and error should tell you a lot about how much yeast to use vs proofing times are needed.   

For today's dough, I had these sitting out at room temps for close to 6 hours.  I dusted 2 of the balls with flour and placed them into ziplock bags and into the freezer.   I plan on taking them out of the freezer and placing them on the counter at room temps for about 8 hours before baking.  I figure 2 hours for thawing and maybe another 6 hours or so for proofing.  Keep in mind I'm also going to be watching the dough to see how it rises/progresses as the final indicator of readiness.

Don't forget to use a sharpie and write the % of yeast on the bag and how long it should take to proof. Then you have a general idea unless you always use the same amount of yeast. 

Chau

thanks Chau!  I am going to give it a whirl tomorrow for some pies next week

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #94 on: October 09, 2010, 07:13:29 PM »
Thanks for posting all them videos on youtube.I watched all the ones you had on there so far.
The kid was adorable too!
 :D
Im seeing more with these videos what my goals are to be similar to.Hope to achieve it soon!Gonna have to do it by hand for now.(Do want the mixer...let it do most of the hard work lol)
 :-D


-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #95 on: October 09, 2010, 07:27:13 PM »
Thanks CP.  The video of that little tyke learning how to walk was filmed awhile ago.  She's now almost 4 and we have another little one about her size that's currently learning how to walk. 

When I get some time, I'll make a video showing how I hand knead dough.  I have a feeling after you see it you may change your mind about buying a mixer.  :-D  Until then just use the notes I gave you in PM. 

Hang in there CP, you'll get there.  It took me a good year of practicing 2-4 times a week.  Not easy but not impossible either. 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #96 on: October 09, 2010, 09:13:32 PM »
Ok here are a few pies from tonight's bake.   After 12 hours the dough did rise but not as much as I would have liked.   Could be that the cake yeast is weak or old.  Next time, I might double up the old cake yeast.  Pies still came out great with good oven spring.  These were baked in the MBE.   

Here's what the doughballs looked like.  They opened up easily and had very little spring back.   Baked for around 4 min, the crumb was very moist, tender with a slight chew.  The rim was crispy as well with a slight crunch.  All were very good pies. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 08:16:49 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #97 on: October 09, 2010, 09:34:24 PM »
Gawd,those look so damn good!
 :chef:

I also love the rim,I know the pics cant show justice for it but I can see how its inflated up a bit.

Btw,you ever make calzones with the same doughs?And what was the hydro and type of flour used in this one?If you posted it earlier I didnt see it.Also,do you use any oil to cover the dough with or any in the mix?
They look so good either way.

-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2010, 09:04:59 AM »
Thanks CP.  I haven't tried making calzones yet, but I should.  I suspect, it would work out very well.   Pizza dough is so flexible as member Norma has shown in her Lehmann recipe with preferment thread.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.0.html

I forgot to post the recipe yesterday, but it's...

HG flour 100%
Water  71%
Salt 2.5%
Cake yeast 0.05%
oil 1%

I didn't cover the balls with oil, but you can do that if you want.  It shouldn't make much of a difference at all.    These balls were a bit on the wet side so I wanted them to dry a bit.

Thanks for the nice words.  I was pleased with how they turned out despite minimal kneading.  I was actually a bit surprise that the crumb structure was so good considering a high hydration ratio dough mixed with a mixer using a minimal knead time.  Of course I made up for the minimal kneading by doing some stretch and folds.

I think ideally, without the added stretch and folds, I would do at least 6min to 8 min of kneading for this hydration level.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Bosch Universal Plus Experiments
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2010, 03:51:31 PM »
Made some pizza today with dough that was previously FROZEN.  The recipe is in the post above #98.  This is the same dough that was mixed on 10-3-10 in reply #83 and #96.   The dough has been frozen for 19 days and then thawed at room temps for 4 hours, cold fermented for 12 hours, then proofed at room temps for another 5.5 hours or so.

Made 2 different styles of pizza in the MBE for lunch.  Tell me what you guys think.  How did I get 2 different looks from the same dough?

Pics of the dough and Pie #1 from different angles
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 04:12:43 PM by Jackie Tran »