Author Topic: 2 day sourdough  (Read 3260 times)

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Offline wheelman

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2 day sourdough
« on: September 27, 2010, 10:00:33 AM »
I started Sat morning and followed TXCraig's reverse UPN recipe - cooked off Sunday night.  Way better results than i've ever gotten with sourdough so far!  This is with a KAF starter.  Next week i'll try it with my new Ischia (how is that pronounced?) culture.


Offline andreguidon

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 10:12:13 AM »
nice looking pie !!

what is a KAF starter ?
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 11:49:50 AM »
King Author sells "sourdough starter" 

buceriasdon

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 01:29:11 PM »
Good job! Could you share a bit more of your method? Also what size is the pie? TIA, Don

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 01:46:32 PM »
thanks!  i followed the reverse UPN with starter dough recipe TXCraig outlined in the first post of the fantastic thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10237.0.html   - 24 hour preferment proof, 4 hr bulk rise at 58 deg., and 4 hr doughball rise also at 58 deg followed by about 3 hours at room temp then cooked in WFO at about 800 floor temp for around 90-100 sec.  picture pizza has homemade sausage that was well browned first and fresh mozz.  the crust was really nice to open and stretch.  the balls were about 250g and the pies about 11". 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 10:30:51 PM »
The pie looks great. Glad to hear the reverse UPN formula is working well for you. Hope to see more.

Craig

Pizza is not bread.

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 09:49:47 AM »
thanks Craig..  really!

bill

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2010, 09:29:41 PM »
I made my first dough with the Ischia starter today.  I used the same procedure as before.  The crust was better, better taste and crumb.  slightly chewy in comparison.  We also tried the frozen Lupoli mozz.. not sure on that one.  the taste is great, but it melted into a harder blob that was rubbery compared to the fresh Buffala Mozz we normally use. 

Offline Matthew

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 04:58:19 AM »
  We also tried the frozen Lupoli mozz.. not sure on that one.  the taste is great, but it melted into a harder blob that was rubbery compared to the fresh Buffala Mozz we normally use. 


The firm texture of the lupara allows it to tolerate the heat much better than "fresh" which usually turns into a soupy mess.  To get rid of the rubbery texture that you're referring to cut it thinner & dome the pie prior to removing from oven.

Matt

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2010, 10:46:54 AM »
thanks Matt, i'll try that tomorrow night.  I have high hopes for the frozen stuff. 
I'm really confused about the starter technique.  I'm following Wood's directions now - culture preparation - So I take the starter out and turn it into a "working" culture by mixing 1/2 cup starter, 1/2 cup water, and a cup of flour. proof that at 85deg for 8 hours, then do the same thing again, proof for 4 hours this time.  that's the stuff used in the pre-ferment in Craig's method.  I end up with plenty of this, can it be used next time instead of doing the two extra steps before starting the dough?  would you feed it again first?  do you even need to proof the starter when doing the 24 hour dough ferment, or just feed it and use it when it gets active? 
thanks in advance for any advice...


Offline Matthew

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 06:14:08 AM »
thanks Matt, i'll try that tomorrow night.  I have high hopes for the frozen stuff. 
I'm really confused about the starter technique.  I'm following Wood's directions now - culture preparation - So I take the starter out and turn it into a "working" culture by mixing 1/2 cup starter, 1/2 cup water, and a cup of flour. proof that at 85deg for 8 hours, then do the same thing again, proof for 4 hours this time.  that's the stuff used in the pre-ferment in Craig's method.  I end up with plenty of this, can it be used next time instead of doing the two extra steps before starting the dough?  would you feed it again first?  do you even need to proof the starter when doing the 24 hour dough ferment, or just feed it and use it when it gets active? 
thanks in advance for any advice...

You are essentially doing the same thing with both methods, the difference is the proportion of starter that you are using.  If you are going to use Craig's method then you will be fine to start off with a refrigerated culture providing that it is viable has been recently refreshed.

Matt

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 10:05:38 AM »
that makes sense Matt, i'm combining these operations but providing fermentation time either way.  my dough for tonight started yesterday with the two step culture preparation, left that overnight, today i'll bulk ferment the final mix in the cellar and then ball and back in the cellar for a few hours.  i'll post results on the dough, and the lupara with your recommendation.  thanks!

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2010, 11:51:44 PM »
tried again tonight with Craig's recipe dough using my new Ischia culture.  the dough gets better each time.  tonight was my best tasting crust yet.  Matts advice on the Lupara cheese paid off too, after cutting it up finer it was at least as good as the Garofalo. first pic is with the frozen Lupara, second with Garofalo.  the Garofalo still melted better I think.

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2010, 10:24:33 AM »
I have a couple more tries at this recipe under my belt now.  under advice from here, i've been really paying attention to the dough process.  it's paying off.  I also have made a big advance with my WFO.  i made some cold 24 hr fermented dough with IDY to do a direct compare too.  here are the A-B shots of that.  the IDY one had more spring, but the Ischia had more flavor.  I'm still sold on the ischia.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2010, 10:40:12 AM »
Excellent work. The Ischia pie is enviable.

John

Offline norma427

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2010, 11:11:53 AM »
I have a couple more tries at this recipe under my belt now.  under advice from here, i've been really paying attention to the dough process.  it's paying off.  I also have made a big advance with my WFO.  i made some cold 24 hr fermented dough with IDY to do a direct compare too.  here are the A-B shots of that.  the IDY one had more spring, but the Ischia had more flavor.  I'm still sold on the ischia.


wheelman,

Your pies look very good.   :)  I also like the flavor of Ischia starter in a pie.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2010, 03:50:47 PM »
 thanks guys!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 09:35:02 PM »
Both pies look good, however that Ischia pie looks better than most that come out of the top-name restaurants. Very nice.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2010, 11:16:13 AM »
Both pies look good, however that Ischia pie looks better than most that come out of the top-name restaurants. Very nice.

Craig

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Offline wheelman

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Re: 2 day sourdough
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2010, 10:06:16 PM »
I'm still having great luck with this recipe.  I'm trying to fine tune the details now and it's consistantly good.  this week i had extra dough so i put a few of the balls into the fridge after bulk rising.  tonight (two days later) we used those for calzones.  cooked at about 525 in my regular oven on pizza stone.  the dough is always a little tough when i make calzones like this but the flavor is really good.  I cook the sauce with mostly leftover pizza ingredients till it's thick.