Author Topic: Easy first time pizza dough recipies  (Read 10563 times)

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Offline RoadPizza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2010, 07:59:41 PM »
black specks will appear as dough is overproofed.  after the black specks, it will start to turn a golden color and smell very odd.  next step is for the dough to mold.

I believe that the black specks are dead yeast.


Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2010, 08:19:39 PM »
Vindii,

As you will see from Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11344.msg106401/topicseen.html#msg106401, I have made doughs (similar to the one you made) that were cold fermented for up to 23 days. I ate each of the pizzas referenced in the abovereferenced thread. I did not get sick, and to the best of my knowledge, I am still alive. However, that is just my opinion :-D.

As you can see from the posts at Replies 96 and 97 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg41466.html#msg41466, it looks like I would have had to push my 23-day old dough to over a month before worrying about the safety of eating the pizza.

Peter



Ok thanks.  Sounds like I can experiment with different amounts of time with much worry of anything bad happening.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2010, 09:00:48 PM »
The other theory on the black spots is that they are oxidized bran particles or oxidized iron. But, whatever the cause, it does not automatically follow that a dough is overfermented if the black spots appear. For example, the dough ball shown at Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg35370.html#msg35370 was about 10 1/2 days old when it was used and it was not overfermented. The dough shown at Reply 29 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg36081.html#msg36081 was about 12 days old and while it had more severe spotting, I did not find the dough to be overly extensible and hard to work with.

Peter

Offline RoadPizza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2010, 09:13:00 PM »
The other theory on the black spots is that they are oxidized bran particles or oxidized iron. But, whatever the cause, it does not automatically follow that a dough is overfermented if the black spots appear. For example, the dough ball shown at Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg35370.html#msg35370 was about 10 1/2 days old when it was used and it was not overfermented. The dough shown at Reply 29 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg36081.html#msg36081 was about 12 days old and while it had more severe spotting, I did not find the dough to be overly extensible and hard to work with.

Peter

That's interesting, Peter.  When I first started making dough, my trainer was the one who told me to look for the "chocolate chip" specks of dead yeast.

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2010, 08:47:23 AM »
I've been reading about recipes that add the yeast to the water and let it proof.  I vaguely understand what proofing is.  Here is how I mixed my dough.  Let me know if I should be doing this differently.

I mixed the salt with the water (cold water). I mixed the yeast with the flour.  Then started to combined the yeast and the flour with the water.  I added the oil near the end.  Once it got into a dough shape I kneaded by hand for 5 minutes.  Then into the fridge for a day.

I know there are probably many way to make dough but let me know what is the best way for this recipe.

Thanks

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2010, 01:25:27 PM »
Vindii,

It is active dry yeast (ADY) that is rehydrated in a small amount of warm water before adding to the rest of the water or other ingredients. Instant dry yeast (IDY) was designed to be added directly to the flour.

The dough preparation method you described is essentially the method that Tom Lehmann recommends. He believes that adding the oil to the dough ingredients earlier in the process negatively affects the hydration of the flour. Others believe that uniform distribution of the oil throughout the dough is just as important, and maybe even more so, and hence add it to the water or other ingredients in the mixer bowl. So, you can pretty much take your pick on the method to use. I personally have found that if you use 1% oil (the amount called for in the Lehmann NY style formulation) and add it later in the dough making process, it will incorporate into the rest of the dough quite easily. However, I have found that above about 4% oil, for essentially any regular dough, it is much harder to get the oil to incorporate into the dough without having to intervene in the process, as by using your hands to incorporate the oil. I have found it better to add the oil to the water up front.

Peter

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2010, 06:59:20 PM »
Thanks for explaining Pete.

I made 3 dough balls yesterday.  Used two of them today for the football game.  Came out just as good as the first one.  Going to save the other one for Tuesday.  That will be 3 days in the fridge.

Is it possible to make dough that could be used in 1 day or let rest for a week?  It would be nice to make enough for 2 pizzas and cook one right away and one a week later.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2010, 07:12:09 PM »
Is it possible to make dough that could be used in 1 day or let rest for a week?  It would be nice to make enough for 2 pizzas and cook one right away and one a week later.

Vendii,

That is difficult to do with just one dough formulation. If you use a dough formulation that produces the desired results after one day, it is likely to result in an overfermented dough after one week. If you use a dough formulation that works for one week, the dough will be underfermented if used after one day. What you can do is to make two dough balls that will be usable after one day, let both dough balls ferment for one day, use one, and freeze the other. A frozen dough ball will still work pretty well after one week. You can see an example where I did this with a Lehmann NY style dough at Reply 830 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg96046.html#msg96046.

You seem to be having fun with all of this 8). Success can be a real aphrodisiac.

Peter

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2010, 11:11:29 PM »
Made the third dough ball today.  This one had 3 days of rest.  I could not tell much difference between the 3 day or the 1 day dough.  Both tasted great.  I cooked this one on my grill with one stone instead of the two stone set-up I was using.  Cooked it 6 minutes instead of 7 on the two stones (3 1/2 minutes per stone). Crust came out great but if I had cooked it any longer it may have burnt.

This crust comes out very thin in the middle and it sags when you lift it.  I'm not sure if it is the way NY style pizza is supposed to be or if it is my cooking methods or dough shaping.  I think I would like to try a dough that has a similar outside crust to this but is a bit more firm in the middle.  Something that would kind of hold it's shape more when you lift it.  Any recommendations?

Here are the pics.


Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2010, 11:32:26 PM »
dont stretch the dough in the middle.  the inside 1/3, DONT TOUCH! and youll have more dough to make a firmer crust.   
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2010, 10:04:50 AM »
Vindii,

If it isn't a shaping and stretching problem, you can try reducing the hydration by a few percent. Or you might let the pizzas bake at a lower temperature for a longer time so that you drive out more moisture in the dough and end up with a dryer, crispier crust that holds its shape better without excessive drooping. You might test one variable at a time so that you can assign cause and effect better.

Peter

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2010, 10:57:57 AM »
Vindii,

If it isn't a shaping and stretching problem, you can try reducing the hydration by a few percent. Or you might let the pizzas bake at a lower temperature for a longer time so that you drive out more moisture in the dough and end up with a dryer, crispier crust that holds its shape better without excessive drooping. You might test one variable at a time so that you can assign cause and effect better.

Peter

So it's not just how this style of crust is?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2010, 11:18:22 AM »
So it's not just how this style of crust is?

Vindii,

I am relying on memory of my trips to NYC but to a certain extent, this is true. NY style pizza slices are intended to be foldable so there is some natural softness to the crust to allow the slices to be foldable. You can see an example in the photo at http://www.flickr.com/photos/cb-photography/109793480// However, that doesn't mean that you have to have high hydration to achieve that characteristic. Many pizza operators who specialize in the NY style, especially those who hire workers untrained in handling high hydration doughs, can use as little as 57-58% hydration yet still achieve a foldable crust, even with the range of oven temperatures they use (which can be as low as 450 degrees F).

If you were using a high gluten flour, you might also find that the slices stiffen up as they cool down. Reheated leftover slices, as many NY pizza operators sell, will also stiffen up in many cases once they are reheated.

Peter

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2010, 01:10:49 PM »
Vindii,

I am relying on memory of my trips to NYC but to a certain extent, this is true. NY style pizza slices are intended to be foldable so there is some natural softness to the crust to allow the slices to be foldable. You can see an example in the photo at http://www.flickr.com/photos/cb-photography/109793480// However, that doesn't mean that you have to have high hydration to achieve that characteristic. Many pizza operators who specialize in the NY style, especially those who hire workers untrained in handling high hydration doughs, can use as little as 57-58% hydration yet still achieve a foldable crust, even with the range of oven temperatures they use (which can be as low as 450 degrees F).

If you were using a high gluten flour, you might also find that the slices stiffen up as they cool down. Reheated leftover slices, as many NY pizza operators sell, will also stiffen up in many cases once they are reheated.

Peter

Thanks Pete.  Is there any glossary of the different styles of pizza with descriptions on what they taste/look like?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2010, 01:44:23 PM »
Thanks Pete.  Is there any glossary of the different styles of pizza with descriptions on what they taste/look like?

Vindii,

There is a brief and general description of the various pizza styles on the forum index page at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php, under Pizza Making. However, your best bet to get an idea as to what some of the different pizza styles look like is to go to the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7799.0.html, and particularly Reply 5. You might want to have a napkin on hand since you are very likely to start drooling when you go through the photos.

If you are especially interested in the NY style, you can also check out the collection of NY style dough recipes at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11860.0.html. If you click through selected offerings, you should find both photos and accompanying dough recipes and commentary on the characteristics of the pizzas.

FYI, there is a forum Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html. It doesn't address your question directly but it does contain a lot of information that you might find useful.

Peter

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2010, 11:04:10 PM »
Made 3 pizzas for the game Sunday.  Came out great.

Had an extra dough ball so I decided to try a calzone.  Same Lehmann dough from earlier in this thread.  Stuffed it with pepperoni, sausage, onion, mozzarella, and parm.  Cooked it on the upper stone in the grill at about 425-450.  Took 15 minutes.  Came out very good for my first time.  It certainly was big.  Next time I may cut it in half and make 2.


Offline Essen1

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2010, 11:08:05 PM »
Perfect!

She's a beauty.

Eggwash, huh?  ;D
Mike

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Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2010, 11:47:12 AM »
Perfect!

She's a beauty.

Eggwash, huh?  ;D

Yup

Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2010, 01:23:32 PM »


Yup

Hi Vindii.

Nice looking pies, I'm glad you're having good success.

I was also going to ask if Egg Wash was the reason for the shiny Calzone style.  I noticed you also topped it with a sauce of some description? I didn't see a mention of what it was, but if you're into...

'That kind of thing'  >:D

..Check out the Chicago Style Deep Dish and Stuffed Pizza Pies. 

The Egg wash reminded me of a 'Pasty' from my Native England and made me home sick, which is OK, I'll forgive you.

You could also experiment with other glazes such as Olive Oil and Salt Glazes, if you don't have egg. I only say this as I always avoid egg unless I'm making Challah and already have egg available, otherwise I find it to be a pain in the but.

If you are unaware of what a pasty is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasty

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2010, 01:41:42 PM »

Hi Vindii.

Nice looking pies, I'm glad you're having good success.

I was also going to ask if Egg Wash was the reason for the shiny Calzone style.  I noticed you also topped it with a sauce of some description? I didn't see a mention of what it was, but if you're into...

'That kind of thing'  >:D

..Check out the Chicago Style Deep Dish and Stuffed Pizza Pies. 

The Egg wash reminded me of a 'Pasty' from my Native England and made me home sick, which is OK, I'll forgive you.

You could also experiment with other glazes such as Olive Oil and Salt Glazes, if you don't have egg. I only say this as I always avoid egg unless I'm making Challah and already have egg available, otherwise I find it to be a pain in the but.

If you are unaware of what a pasty is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasty

Thanks for the comments guys.  Sauce is just standard pizza sauce.

The pasty sounds similar to a beef pot pie.  May have to try that some time.

Actually Chicago deep dish is next on the list per the wife's request.  I found the canned tomatoes (6 in 1) but still need to find a deep dish pan so I can get some help with the crust recipe.

Having lots of fun learning.