Author Topic: How to get rid of the water  (Read 45935 times)

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Offline mitchjg

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #200 on: December 08, 2013, 10:15:02 PM »
Love this dough!

I usually make pies with sourdough starter, but decided to try something different this time.  This dough was so easy to work with and really tasty.  Brian, thanks so much for sharing the recipe and workflow!

I modified things a bit (for timing convenience) by increasing the yeast but refrigerating in my wine refrigerator overnight at 50 degrees.  Sure enough, we had to change our plans - so into the regular fridge at 38 for an unplanned extra night.

What an easy dough to work with.  Probably stretched it out to 13 1/2  or so (launched on my new GI metal 13 inch perforated peel - nice!). 

My wife is a diehard NY style fan and has instructed me that I am to shred the chesse and not tear pieces onto the pie.  She is the boss!

First was mushrooms and pancetta with a bit of roasted garlic.
Second was cheese and basil.

I will do this again.....My team from work is coming over the house on Friday.  Guess what they are going to eat...............

- Mitch



Online tinroofrusted

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #201 on: December 09, 2013, 01:04:57 AM »
Mitch, I would tear into one of those pizzas anytime.  They look great!  I really love this recipe also, and I recommend it frequently to people who are looking for a really good recipe. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #202 on: December 09, 2013, 11:01:44 AM »
Mitch,

I love the look of those pies, especially the cornicione on pie 2. Actually pie 1. No make that pie 2. :drool:

Motivation to make some dough is creeping in...

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline norma427

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #203 on: December 09, 2013, 11:30:36 AM »
Mitch,

Great job!  ;D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline DannyG

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #204 on: December 09, 2013, 02:00:13 PM »
I'm just finding this thread and read through it but I'm not sure of the right formula being referred to.
Is it the one on post 95? http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg124161.html#msg124161

Offline mitchjg

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #205 on: December 09, 2013, 03:38:53 PM »
Yep, that is the one!  The workflow is a couple of pages back in reply number 41.

Norma / John / Tinroof:  Shucks and thanks.  The pies really came out good and we really liked them.

I am not sure I will ever follow the workflow as described by Brian only because of  my own schedule.  Based on my experience so far, you can be pretty flexible.  This is the first time I have tried a poolish and I would definitely recommend that folks (that have not already) give it a try.

This forum has been so helpful, I really appreciate the help everyone gives.

- Mitch

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #206 on: December 09, 2013, 04:22:24 PM »
I'm just finding this thread and read through it but I'm not sure of the right formula being referred to.
Is it the one on post 95? http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg124161.html#msg124161
DannyG,

As Mitch noted, the post you referenced is the original recipe used by Brian. However, you will note from Reply 192 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg280813.html#msg280813] [url]http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg280813.html#msg280813[/url] and Reply 199 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg285649.html#msg285649 that Brian went to a new (unmalted organic) flour, and he omitted the oil and said that a hydration range of 62-65% could be used. He did not mention any other changes, such as the amount of yeast or salt. If someone wants to try a modification along the lines mentioned by Brian, to keep changes to a minimum and retain the same dough ball weight (425 grams) and the same values for yeast and salt, I think I would replace the 15.31 grams of oil with water, leave the preferment (poolish) as is, and replace the 15.31 grams of oil in the Final Mix with water, for a total of 15.31 + 438.91 = 454.22 grams of water in the Final Mix. I think I got the math right.

You will note that adding the 15.31 grams of replacement water to the 643.06 grams of water in the Total Dough Formulation increases the hydration value in the Total Dough Formulation to 64.5% [(15.31 + 643.06)/1020.73 = 64.5%]. That value is within the 62-65% range that Brian mentioned. I can't say with certainty that the modified formulation will work as well as in the past with the Better for Bread flour but leaving out the oil should eliminate any wetting effect that the oil might have on the flour.

If someone decides to try the modified version as discussed above, and is successful and reports back on that success, I can take a stab at revising the dough formulation that I came up with for Reply 95.

Peter

Offline DannyG

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #207 on: December 15, 2013, 10:26:24 AM »
So I tired this formula (post 95 and work flow post 41) with great results. I used KABF because that is what I had on hand. I also made a smaller batch calculated for 2-balls at 320 grams. Fortunately I have a scale that can measure tenths of a gram because it was a minuscule amount for the poolish and I wasn't sure it would work, but it did. The dough was silky smooth baked with just the amount of moisture I was looking for. I will definitely be putting this in my keeper collection.

Question - If I wanted to use my Ischia as the poolish would I just substitute the same percentage as what is called for in the recipe and keep the work flow the same?

Offline slybarman

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #208 on: February 16, 2014, 10:40:45 AM »
It's been many months since I last made pizza, but I am giving this one a go today with KABF. This is the first time I have tried doing stretch and folds with pizza dough.

amyamrap

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #209 on: March 02, 2014, 04:33:47 PM »
Any tricks for pulling more moisture out of the dough when you bake?

Sprinkle a handful of Kirkland Signature dried chopped onions on the dough as it's first topping. They soak up moisture like mad.


Offline agrawaam

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #210 on: April 02, 2014, 08:31:23 AM »
Result after a lot of hard work - made from 5 day old Sprangler style dough in my home oven at about 225 C.

Thanks Brian for such a wonderful flexible recipe!!!

Just can't have enough pizza ;)

Offline agrawaam

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #211 on: April 02, 2014, 08:39:06 AM »
Toppings on this 13" gastric delight were Red November's fantastic sauce, homemade mozz, babycorn, green peppers, sliced onions with a generous amount of garlic EVOO and oregano...

Baked in 7 minutes and came out sizzling...

and then after letting it cool and the steam escape, it disappeared in just about as much time :D



Just can't have enough pizza ;)

Offline Jacobus Maximus

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #212 on: April 03, 2014, 02:44:13 AM »
Marc,

I was used to relating the poolish to the total formula water rather than the total formula flour. So, it looks like you were using the proper amount, or something close to it, in your recent experiment after all. Based on your recent example of four 425-gram dough balls, I used the expanded dough calculating tool and came up with the following:

Total Dough Formulation
Better for Bread Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.04783%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (1.5%):
Total (166.54783%):
Single Ball:
1020.73 g  |  36 oz | 2.25 lbs
643.06 g  |  22.68 oz | 1.42 lbs
0.49 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.16 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
20.41 g | 0.72 oz | 0.05 lbs | 3.66 tsp | 1.22 tbsp
15.31 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.4 tsp | 1.13 tbsp
1700 g | 59.96 oz | 3.75 lbs | TF = N/A
425 g | 14.99 oz | 0.94 lbs

Preferment (Poolish)
Better for Bread Flour (100%):
Water (100%):
IDY (0.03264%):
Total (200.03264%):
204.15 g  |  7.2 oz | 0.45 lbs
204.15 g  |  7.2 oz | 0.45 lbs
0.07 g | 0 oz | 0 lbs | 0.02 tsp | 0.01 tbsp
408.36 g | 14.4 oz | 0.9 lbs | TF = N/A

Final Mix
Preferment (Poolish)--From above (408.36 g)
Remaining Total Formula Better for Bread Flour (100%):
Remaining Total Formula Water (53.75%):
Remaining Total formula IDY (0.05185%):
Total Formula Salt (2.49944%):
Total Formula Olive Oil (1.87488%):
Total (158.17617%):
816.58 g  |  28.8 oz | 1.8 lbs
438.91 g  |  15.48 oz | 0.97 lbs
0.42 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.14 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
20.41 g | 0.72 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.66 tsp | 1.22 tbsp
15.31 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.4 tsp | 1.13 tbsp
1291.64 g | 45.56 oz | 2.85 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation

In the Final Mix, I left in the baker's percents. I had to use them in order to use the expanded dough calculating tool.

I will leave it to you if you want to wait for Brian to post the formula he uses. I might add that Brian uses 62% hydration rather than 63% hydration. I assumed that you selected 63% for a reason.

Peter

Edit: Corrected Final Mix data

Pete (and Brian) -

1. Just to clarify, this is for a 16" pie, right?

2. What's the method? I tried searching the Forum for how to use a poolish/preferment, but I couldn't find anything. Can you provide a step-by-step for both the poolish and the final mix (or point me in the direction of a link if that method is on this forum somewhere)? And how they go together? I'm guessing this would be dressed on a peel and cooked on a stone (fortunately I've done enough of that that I think I have a method down.)  I've been bouncing around a few different threads to get the Brian Spangler/Apizza Scholls recipe (luckily for me they're a 15 min drive away, so I can taste-test to be sure I'm getting it right.) I'm really looking forward to making a white clam pie with the Apizza Scholls dough recipe...

Offline Jacobus Maximus

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #213 on: April 03, 2014, 02:49:23 AM »
I live so close to Apizza Scholls and have never been. I'll have to both go there and try the formula myself.

I know. I live in Clackamas. 15 minutes away. I have no excuse...

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #214 on: April 03, 2014, 03:07:39 AM »
Jacobus and Paulooms, time to get over to Apizza Scholls! Then take some pictures and report back here! 

Jacobus, here are the directions that I pulled from somewhere earlier in this thread. They appear with the recipe for this style on the dough generator site.

Quote
This dough makes use of a preferment, or "poolish", using a portion of the ingredients listed above. The amount of preferment should be 25% of the flour in the recipe, and an equal amount of water. For example, if your recipe calls for 1,000 grams of flour, use 250 grams of flour and 250 grams of water for the poolish. (Remember to subtract these amounts from the flour and water you add to your final dough!) Mix the preferment water and flour together, and add a very small amount of Instant Dry Yeast (.03% of flour amount, just a tiny bit unless you are making a large batch of dough). Mix well and leave on the countertop for approximately 12-14 hours.

After the poolish is ready, mix the dough. Add the poolish and the remaining amounts of flour and water to the bowl of a stand mixer. Mix by hand or on low for just 30 seconds or so to incorporate the water into the flour a bit. Leave this roughly incorporated mixture to rest for 25 minutes. (This step is called "autolyse" and it is said to be one of the keys to great pizza, so don't skip this step.)

When the autolyse is complete, add the yeast, the salt and the olive oil to the mixer bowl. Mix on low for 2 minutes, then increase the speed to medium for 6 more minutes. At this point the flour will be incorporated, but the dough will not yet be smooth. Transfer the dough to a large bowl or plastic tub with cover. Allow dough to rise for approximately 3.5 to 4 hours, or until doubled. Do a "stretch and fold" on the dough every 45 minutes during bulk fermentation. (You should do approximately 4 stretch and folds during bulk fermentation, which greatly aid in developing the gluten structure of the dough.) To do a stretch and fold, with clean, lightly moistented hands, reach into the bowl, grab the dough from the bottom, and stretch it straight up, then over and back down into the bowl. Repeat this process once or twice more, and that's it.

When the dough has approximately doubled in size, bulk fermentation is complete. Transfer the dough to a cutting board or clean counter. Divide, scale and shape into dough balls, and allow to rise for approximately 2.5 hours more at room temperature. Hand stretch the dough balls, top as you like, and make delicious pizza in the style of Apizza Scholls.

Thanks to Pizzamaking.com members Tannerwood and Pete-zza for their hard work guidance on developing this recipe. A special thanks to Brian Spangler for his generosity in sharing information about how to make his pizza.




Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #215 on: April 03, 2014, 08:14:03 AM »
Jacobus Maximus,

I am not sure what Brian does these days but as you will see from Reply 41 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11994.msg123707#msg123707 at the time of that post he used 21 ounces of dough to make an 18" pizza but the actual size was closer to 19"-20". At 18", the corresponding thickness factor for 21 ounces of dough would be 21/(3.14159 x 9 x 9) = 0.08252. At 19", the corresponding thickness would be 0.0741, and at 20" the corresponding thickness factor would be 0.06685. So, for the dough formulation you referenced, you have a fair amount of latitude for the size of pizza to make with 14.99 ounces of dough. For example, using the above three values of thickness factors, your final pizza size could be a bit over 15", 16" or almost 17", respectively. In your case, you might just use what seems to work best for you at the time you are working the dough on the bench. For comparison purposes, and as noted in Reply 41 referenced above, before Brian went to the current dough, with a lower hydration, he was using around 22-23 ounces of dough for a roughly 18" pizza. For an 18" pizza, that would have represented a thickness factor of about 0.09.

You will also see the dough making protocol that Brian was using as of the time of Reply 41 referenced above.

If you plan to visit Apizza Scholls, to get the full benefit of the experience, I think you owe it to yourself to read this thread in its entirety. You might also read Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7225.msg76431#msg76431. That post represents an early attempt on my part to reverse engineer and clone Brian's pizza dough before he became a member of the forum but, together with this thread, contains a lot of the history and background for what Brian was to eventually end up doing at Apizza Scholls. I think this reading will put you right in the middle of what you might expect from a visit to Apizza Scholls. And so much the better if you are able to meet and speak with Brian.

Peter

Offline CaptBob

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Re: How to get rid of the water
« Reply #216 on: July 07, 2014, 02:53:52 PM »
I know this is an older thread but just wanted to say that I was so frustrated trying to find that "right" dough recipe that  I was about ready to give up. Then I tried this dough and by doing so, along with using percentages and weighing my ingredients, made all the difference in the world. Thanks to Brian and Peter and all who contributed here.....

Bob
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 03:20:21 PM by CaptBob »