Author Topic: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza  (Read 11144 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23600
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2010, 09:28:08 PM »
Member RoadPizza was kind enough to bring the following article to my attention: http://nymag.com/restaurants/cheapeats/2009/57896/. The article is a little over a year old and the prices are New York prices, but I think the article nonetheless offers some useful insights on the pricing of Neapolitan style pizzas. I believe that there is a typo on the oil used at Motorino's. I think it should be the Frantoia olive oil: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QV18US/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Peter


Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1599
  • Location: Boston
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2010, 10:21:49 PM »
Peter that article on the costs is great. That Frantoia oil is great as well. I was using it before I got the California Olive Ranch oil which is awesome, especially the Arbequina oil.

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2010, 10:30:15 PM »
Member RoadPizza was kind enough to bring the following article to my attention: http://nymag.com/restaurants/cheapeats/2009/57896/. The article is a little over a year old and the prices are New York prices, but I think the article nonetheless offers some useful insights on the pricing of Neapolitan style pizzas. I believe that there is a typo on the oil used at Motorino's. I think it should be the Frantoia olive oil: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QV18US/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Peter



COST OF A MARGHERITA PIE:
Fior di Latte mozzarella: $1.00
San Marzano tomatoes: $0.40
Caputo 00 soft-grain dough from Napoli: $0.32
Sicilian sea salt: $0.01
La Frontoin extra-virgin olive oil from Sicily: $1
Pecorino-Romano: $0.41
Raw Israeli basil: $0.50
Total . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $3.64/pie
Cost to customer . . . . . . . . . . . .$10
Markup per pie . . . . . . . . . . . .$6.36

1 dollar for OIL!??? this is not right.. so lets bring that down to 10cents. and we have around $2.75 a pie. which is about right.
A pizza should not cost you more than 3 dollars, also the Basil seems expensive and so does the Pecorino. so actually I 'm thinking you can get the price down to around 2 - 2.50 easy.



three cords per month, $375 per cord @ motorino.
so a little over $1000 bucks in wood a month!
making around 5.800 pizzas month.

they charging 10 bucks pie???? WOW Anthony was charging 20 bucks..

anyway we can't be sure on this figures.. I don't know how the guy got all these figures. what he just rocked into Palombino's office and said can you break it down for me?  ::)

to the OP
to really save on money, always buy in bulk, look for specials and stack up! ring all the distributors and get the best price.
BUT what ever you do.. NEVER buy cheap quality ingredients. just search around you will be surprised that not all distributors charge the same, some are 20% more than others, and that effects the bottom line.




Offline RoadPizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 348
  • Mozzarella Addict
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2010, 11:01:43 PM »
Paulie Gee replied to this article at Slice, writing:"$90,000 annual profit at Motorino? Who do they think we are, the IRS?" 

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/07/quote-of-the-day-one-for-you-nineteen-for-me.html

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2632
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2010, 11:19:04 AM »

1 dollar for OIL!??? this is not right.


If they truly are using Frantoia, then the amount may be correct. I use this oil exclusively for all of my cooking, dressing, pizza, etc. and it is around $23 a bottle shipped (from Pennmac - I buy a case at a time). If I forget to place an order, and I buy at Whole Foods, it is $30 per bottle.

I think this article is fascinating though. One thing to consider is the annual revenue stated is for pizza only, and not including beverages, apps, etc. I am sure the total revenue for the one restaurant is significantly higher.

John

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2060
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2010, 12:33:10 PM »
 here are some wholesale costs that may help.   imported plum tomatoes 6/10 23.95 3000 grams per can, caputo 25 kg 29.90 kosher salt 25 pounds 4.99 . an ok evoo gem 6/1 gallon 97.00. basil 8.60 per pound . locatelli romano 8.39 per pound. reggiano parm 10.29 per pound  [both middle quality cheeses]. 20 pounds of cheese curd 56.25. grande fior di latte 3 pounds 12.20 12/4 oz per container. see if this helps with actual pizza costing.

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2060
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2010, 12:50:39 PM »
sorry, forgot a high ticket ingredient fresh yeast .99 per pound

Offline GotRocks

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 334
  • Location: up to my butt in snow
  • Trying to get financing sucks!
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2010, 01:24:50 PM »
I do not think it is proper accounting to use fuel cost for a food-cost calcualtion, I feel that fuel wood would be better put in the "operations Cost" category.
A skinny cook is not to be trusted!

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2010, 01:32:05 AM »
I got a full cord of 2 year seasoned Oak for $450. I would bet if you bought in bulk they would give you a discount(10 cords+?). I have been making pizza since the beginning of July 2010 in the WFO and have used about 1/3 of the cord maybe a little more.

Can you post a pic of the Full cord, just so I can see what it looks like for the price and the quantity.
thanks...


Offline pacoast

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 236
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2010, 03:09:21 AM »
Each picture below is one cord. A cord is 128 ft³ e.g. a 4' x 4' x 8' stack of wood.


Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2010, 06:56:56 AM »
Each picture below is one cord. A cord is 128 ft³ e.g. a 4' x 4' x 8' stack of wood.



thanks a lot , really appreciate that thanks...

Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1599
  • Location: Boston
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2010, 06:22:57 PM »
I don't know if it's my eyes but I got a full cord and it looks more than that, maybe 1.5 of that picture.

Offline pacoast

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 236
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2010, 06:48:18 PM »
I don't know if it's my eyes but I got a full cord and it looks more than that, maybe 1.5 of that picture.
A cord is a volume measurement. If your wood is stacked, you can measure it. If the width x length x depth (in feet) totals more than 128.. then you have a generous vendor.

Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1599
  • Location: Boston
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2010, 07:02:16 PM »
Wait forget it the way I was look at the picture was wrong... That looks like the amount I got in the first picture.

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2010, 10:09:51 PM »
so based on motorinos stats

three cords per month, $375 per cord @ motorino.
so a little over $1000 bucks in wood a month!
making around 5.800 pizzas month.

so 5800 pizzas a month lets divide that by 30 days, thats almost 200 a day.

so one cord at 375 dollars will make 1900 pizzas a month which will make 63 pizzas a day, correct?
at a cost of 375 per cord divided by 63,  thats roughly 12 bucks a day in wood cost, and at 63 pizzas a day works out to be
roughly 20 cents a pie?
am I calculating this right?

math wasn't my strong point in school hahahaha


Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2010, 10:30:45 PM »
Each picture below is one cord. A cord is 128 ft³ e.g. a 4' x 4' x 8' stack of wood.



any idea how much that Cord weighted?


Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2010, 11:02:42 PM »
so I have been asking around about wood. this is what I have been quoted

 150dollars roughly 20 sacks at a weight of 40 kilograms each sack, with rough 22 wedges of wood split into 30cm length, by 10 cm thickness. the mass is 1 ton.


so my question is this, in a professional setting or home operation perhaps someone has had a party and made more than 20 pies in one day, roughly how much wood is needed to fuel the fire? and for how many hours?

I'm trying to figure out my costs for the plan, at least trying to get the closest working figure possible.






Offline pacoast

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 236
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2010, 11:41:29 PM »
150dollars roughly 20 sacks at a weight of 40 kilograms each sack, with rough 22 wedges of wood split into 30cm length, by 10 cm thickness. the mass is 1 ton.
It's not standard to measure firewood by weight. The standard measure is by volume e.g. by the cord or fraction of a cord.

Weight will vary by the type of wood and how dry it is. I use white oak and a cord of seasoned (dry) wood is about two tons. A cord of freshly cut oak, which would still be too wet to burn would weigh something like three tons. One ton of wood is either less than a cord or it's one of the lightest (and less desirable) hardwoods. Or perhaps even softwood. You could find all of this out with a Google search.

The price of firewood varies a lot by region. And wood consumption will vary with different ovens & how much they are used. I wouldn't buy wood from someone who sells it by the sack. I'd want to know the price per cord (or fraction of cord), whether it is seasoned, what kind of hardwood it was & whether they will stack it on delivery or not. I would guess that my oven uses perhaps 20# an hour, but I haven't actually measured it.


Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2010, 01:56:52 AM »
It's not standard to measure firewood by weight. The standard measure is by volume e.g. by the cord or fraction of a cord.

Weight will vary by the type of wood and how dry it is. I use white oak and a cord of seasoned (dry) wood is about two tons. A cord of freshly cut oak, which would still be too wet to burn would weigh something like three tons. One ton of wood is either less than a cord or it's one of the lightest (and less desirable) hardwoods. Or perhaps even softwood. You could find all of this out with a Google search.

The price of firewood varies a lot by region. And wood consumption will vary with different ovens & how much they are used. I wouldn't buy wood from someone who sells it by the sack. I'd want to know the price per cord (or fraction of cord), whether it is seasoned, what kind of hardwood it was & whether they will stack it on delivery or not. I would guess that my oven uses perhaps 20# an hour, but I haven't actually measured it.



 20 pieces of wood an hour?  is that right?  ummmm seems very high compared to motorinos 6000 pies

the guy said he packs the wood into sacks for cleaner and easier delivery and handling.
he said the wood was OAK..
I will get more information and pictures and post more..
I have used googled, but I can't get any immediate feed back and first hand accounts..
I might have some figures wrong about the weight, I will call them back and make sure..
respond soon

ps I am not talking about 1 ton as in weight, I am talking about 1 ton as in Mass/volume.

so 1 ton is 150 bucks, 2 tons is 300 bucks and 3 tons is 450 bucks.. so like in the picture above where the guy paid 450, you mention thats close to 3 tons.. so maybe its similar..
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 05:05:29 AM by PizzaVera »

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2010, 05:44:37 AM »
I am no wood expert ,

this is the wood from one of the companies,

this wood looks ok? they say its oak....

I know the prices are different in USA than where I am now.
they are asking 150-180 dollars for 20 of these bundles.





in sacks..

I am just trying to get some information really on how much I need to burn for the oven for at least 8 hours of full operation a night.


« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 05:54:43 AM by PizzaVera »

Offline pacoast

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 236
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2010, 04:10:15 PM »
20 pieces of wood an hour?  is that right?
No, I actually meant 20 pounds of wood an hour. Keep in mind that this is just an estimate, not a measured quantity.

Motorino has been reported to use 3 cords a month. They are open about 400 hours a month, so their oven might be fired something like 450 hours a month. That would be umm.. (4000# x 3) / 450 = 27 lbs of wood per hour. Forno Bravo estimates 15 lbs/hour for their ovens, but that's only for a 700F oven. The only other estimate I have seen is for Vesuvio ovens, which are also said to use about 15 lbs/hour, but that is for a 575F oven.


Offline pacoast

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 236
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2010, 04:46:44 PM »
ps I am not talking about 1 ton as in weight, I am talking about 1 ton as in Mass/volume.
I don't know what you mean then. 1 ton (mass or weight) would be 2000 - 2240#, perhaps half a cord. 1 ton (volume) is esoteric and ambiguous, but probably means 40 cubic feet, which is about one third of a cord.

At sea level, weight equals mass by definition. Even at high elevations e.g. 10,000 feet, the weight will not vary significantly, something like 0.1%, which is dwarfed by the effect that relative humidity would have on firewood. Most of the members here are in North America, so 1 ton (aka short ton) = 2,000#. In the UK 1 ton (long ton) = 2,240#. And a metric ton, usually spelt as tonne to avoid confusion = 1,000 kg or 2,205#.

On the other hand volume is something entirely different. Using a ton as a volume measure is more esoteric and AFAIK limited to cargo ships and western European common carriers. It's also a variable unit that needs to be defined. A measurement or freight ton in the UK (MTON/MT) would be 40 cubic feet. While a register ton (RT/GRT) would be 100 cubic feet in the UK, but 51 cubic feet in France (tonneau de mer).

« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 06:34:05 PM by pacoast »

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2010, 01:55:07 AM »
I don't know what you mean then. 1 ton (mass or weight) would be 2000 - 2240#, perhaps half a cord. 1 ton (volume) is esoteric and ambiguous, but probably means 40 cubic feet, which is about one third of a cord.

At sea level, weight equals mass by definition. Even at high elevations e.g. 10,000 feet, the weight will not vary significantly, something like 0.1%, which is dwarfed by the effect that relative humidity would have on firewood. Most of the members here are in North America, so 1 ton (aka short ton) = 2,000#. In the UK 1 ton (long ton) = 2,240#. And a metric ton, usually spelt as tonne to avoid confusion = 1,000 kg or 2,205#.

On the other hand volume is something entirely different. Using a ton as a volume measure is more esoteric and AFAIK limited to cargo ships and western European common carriers. It's also a variable unit that needs to be defined. A measurement or freight ton in the UK (MTON/MT) would be 40 cubic feet. While a register ton (RT/GRT) would be 100 cubic feet in the UK, but 51 cubic feet in France (tonneau de mer).



Yes I was very confused when he told me also, so he said, 1 ton means it will take a 1 ton truck to load it. so all the wood will fit into a  1 ton trucks cargo area.
so you think its 1/3 of a cord? sounds about right, that price is 150bucks, so times that my 3 and we have 450 for a cord?
I will call up again this week and find out more.

he is selling 20 bundles which weight 40 kilos each, so a total of 800kilos for the cargo, which he said will store into a 1 ton trucks cargo area.
for the price is 150 dollars.




Offline pacoast

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 236
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2010, 03:15:21 AM »
Yes I was very confused when he told me also, so he said, 1 ton means it will take a 1 ton truck to load it. so all the wood will fit into a  1 ton trucks cargo area.
All I can tell you is that I wouldn't be buying from your guy. You don't have any real measure at all. What will fit in a 1 ton truck is vague at best and certainly does not correspond to 1 ton of volume or any other standardized measurement. The only real information was the 800 kg figure. Judging from your picture it is red oak, so if the weight is accurate and if the wood is well seasoned.. 800 kg x 2.2 = 1760#/3,800 = about 0.46 cord. If the wood is wet, then a lot less & you won't be able to use it for some time either.


Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Cost in Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2010, 04:27:23 AM »
No, I actually meant 20 pounds of wood an hour. Keep in mind that this is just an estimate, not a measured quantity.

Motorino has been reported to use 3 cords a month. They are open about 400 hours a month, so their oven might be fired something like 450 hours a month. That would be umm.. (4000# x 3) / 450 = 27 lbs of wood per hour. Forno Bravo estimates 15 lbs/hour for their ovens, but that's only for a 700F oven. The only other estimate I have seen is for Vesuvio ovens, which are also said to use about 15 lbs/hour, but that is for a 575F oven.

great info here thanks..
 you are saying that Motorino is burning fuel for 450 hours a month , ok.. I am going to say I would be burning for 280hrs a month


do you think this is a fair estimate based on my hours?


750 dollars a month on wood, 4000 kilos(8800Lbs) of combined weight ( 200 bundles of 40 kilo sacks each.)
burning 15 kilos an hour (33LBS) 8 hours a day for a total of 280 hours a month (added more hours for weekend.)



1: fuel cost 750 dollars - (200 , 40kilo bundles of Oakwood)
2: 280 hours of Oven operation (15kilos) 33LBS an hour 8 hrs a day for 30 days.
3: Total weight 4000 kilos (8800Lbs) OAK wood  a month.



Of course there is no way to be sure on this estimate until I am operational and have been trading for 6 months to make an accurate calculation.  I hope I have over estimated.  
I would of course hope to get that figure down 20~ 25%   once I gain experience on wood and the oven.