Author Topic: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?  (Read 1606 times)

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Offline chickenparm

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IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« on: October 02, 2010, 11:43:14 PM »
A old buddy of mine used to work in NY pizza shops years ago.One place he worked at,he told me a bit about the recipe ingredients for the dough,did not have the recipe itself...I do not have all the details but they used Butter in the mix.

So far,I have not see anyone mention using Butter.If they did,what would the benefits be?Would that work instead of oil? Or work better with oil too?

If this needs to be in the Dough ingredients,I can post there,but this is for a NY style Pie I used to eat and it was excellent.So I thought maybe it should be posted here...I do not know.Peter,I was not sure where to post so I put it here.

Just wanted to see what some of you thought about it.

Thanks.

-Bill





-Bill


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 01:27:06 AM »
There is no aspect of life that can not be improved by butter.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 01:33:40 AM »
There is no aspect of life that can not be improved by butter.

Amen. :-D

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 10:19:06 AM »
Bill,

I suppose that pizza operators are not much different than the rest of us and will think to make changes to their doughs from time to time by using all kinds of ingredients and substituting one ingredient for another. However, I would say that it is uncommon to find the use of butter in a NY style dough. The butter will impart a different flavor profile to the crust than oil but, according to Tom Lehmann, the texture is unlikely to be materially different. See, for example, the PMQ Think Tank threads at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=38155#p38155 and http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=2835#p2835. You will also note that in the latter thread Tom Lehman expresses the opinion "With thin crusts the buttery flavor seems to be lost in the flavor of the cheese that is applied as a topping." Although Tom did not single out the NY style, the NY style pizza is a thin crusted pizza. 

BTW, if you decide to substitute butter for oil in a given dough formulation, you can make an even swap even though butter has a water content of around 20%.

Peter

Offline chickenparm

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 02:42:43 AM »
Thanks Peter! And the others for the  :-D

No plans to add butter myself,just curious if anyone was using it based on the info I got from a Pizza maker I received a few days ago.

-Bill

Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 10:37:02 AM »
You could brush it on the crust before baking mmmmmm

Offline pizzadoughboy

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 03:53:07 PM »
I think I recall reading an article from someone who used to work at a Sbarros and they either used lard or butter in their recipe.  I tried butter once and results weren't bad...haven't tried it since though because I prefer the oil.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 03:57:26 PM by pizzadoughboy »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 05:04:21 PM »
I think I recall reading an article from someone who used to work at a Sbarros and they either used lard or butter in their recipe.  I tried butter once and results weren't bad...haven't tried it since though because I prefer the oil.


pizzadoughboy,

I have read of lard, shortening and oil, but not butter, although there would be no reason why butter would not work. I tried lard in a Sbarro clone, at Reply 56 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2061.msg40413.html#msg40413.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2010, 05:34:13 PM »
There is no aspect of life that can not be improved by butter.

Amen is right, and Julia Child would agree 100%! She once loved McDonald's fries when they were cooked in lard. Then she said "the nutritionists got involved and messed it all up".

I like the basting the rim idea for a unique flavor. It'll be well browned/golden... that's for sure!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline pizzadoughboy

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2010, 07:41:33 PM »
pizzadoughboy,

I have read of lard, shortening and oil, but not butter, although there would be no reason why butter would not work. I tried lard in a Sbarro clone, at Reply 56 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2061.msg40413.html#msg40413.

Peter


Peter,

If you follow your link above and navigate to the fourth page reply #63 a former manager from Sbarro's noted using butter in their dough.  I did research Sbarro's pizza a few months back and also found a post (different site) from a former Sbarro's employee.  He stated that they used lard in their recipe until around 1987 when they switched over to butter.  I'm not sure if it's accurate due to it being on the internet and not a first person account but the above post also states something similar. 

I tried a "clone" recipe by scaling down ingredients and didn't particularly like the results due to the lack of salt I used in it.  Also I felt the dough turned out to be too flaky with the 8% butter I used.  If I had used more salt I probably would've ended up with better results but the texture wasn't close to what I am looking for in my dough. 


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2010, 08:09:43 PM »
pizzadoughboy,

Thank you for correcting me. If I had to guess, Sbarro is most likely now using oil rather than the other fats, especially with concern over trans fats, saturated fats, etc. Even shortenings have gone through reformulations to reduce hydrogenated oils. If you go back and look at what the major pizza chains used to use compared with now, you will see many changes. In the case of Sbarro, I have been waiting for well over a year for Sbarro to post the Nutrition Information for their pizzas. I was mostly interested in the fat information, which I think would have ruled out the traditional fats, maybe even shortenings. However, all I have seen over that period of time is this: http://www.sbarro.com/ourFood/nutrition.php.

Peter

Offline pizzadoughboy

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2010, 12:28:53 AM »
Peter,

Not necessarily a correction as you were right their original recipe was lard. From reading this was supposedly when their pizza was actually better. And I believe you are also right that they now use some type of oil instead of butter or lard. Sorry to stray from the OPs topic a bit but i guess for some reason they switched to butter. However as you stated I'm not quite sure why they would make that change. Maybe similar results at a cheaper cost?!?!  Either way I have not heard or seen any "NY street or elite" recipes call for butter. I have however seen them call for eggs. When I questioned a NY pizzeria owner regarding use of eggs in the dough he basically laughed at the fact that someone would do that. I tried a recipe with egg and the result wasn't bad.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: IS Butter Not Used in NY Style Pies? or Is it?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2010, 01:30:42 AM »
My local Mall has a Sbarros there and I will ask them if they can tell me about their recipe for the dough.Im just curious myself.I will say this particular Sbarro's I go to once in a while is very good.I had some awful Sbarros before when living in NY and traveling in the tri state area.I never cared for them.

Hopefully they may be eager to tell me a little bit about what goes into their dough...or maybe I can ask them and tell them I have some bad allergies to certain foods and I need to know what they make it with?
 >:D
-Bill