Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book

[Bill/SFNM]

For those of you interested in bread, there has been a lively discussion of a new cookbook, "Tartine Bread" in this thread:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12042.msg112755.html#msg112755

For those that have tried the bread recipes, the results have been uniformly sensational. There is a Margherita pizza recipe in the book that uses the dough for "Rustic Country Bread". That bread is pretty amazing, creating some of the best I have ever baked. But would it make similarly super pizza? So I made a half-batch of this very wet dough, fired up the WFO, and made several pies. I definitely took liberties - substituting Caputo for the white flour, for example.

In short, the pies were pretty mediocre. Main problem was too much gluten development from the folding meant to tame the high hydration. Not to quibble over semantics, but it was more of a flatbread than a pizza, and not a very good flatbread or pizza. I'm sure I could make improvements, but why bother? I'm reminded of the Mark Twain wisdom: "to the man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail." To the bakery with a bunch of leftover bread dough ......

Two pies shown below: Margherita and a green pizza made with a bagnet vert sauce - also from the book - which uses leftover bread. Very nice sauce.




 

[Essen1]

Bummer.

I had high hopes for the pizza baked in your WFO. Well, at least we know now that it's not a dough particularly made for pizza. Perhaps as a rustic flatbread but that might be it.

Thanks for posting your results, Bill.

[Bill/SFNM]

I'm not really bummed out, Mike. The book has so many other great recipes. I think they just tossed a few pizza recipes in there for filler. They seem out of character with the rest of the book.

[Essen1]

Bill,

There's a picture in the book of a somewhat rectangular-shaped flatbread/pizza which looks promising. I'm contemplating if pre-baking the crust might yield a different outcome.

[Bill/SFNM]

Bill,

There's a picture in the book of a somewhat rectangular-shaped flatbread/pizza which looks promising. I'm contemplating if pre-baking the crust might yield a different outcome.

Page number?

[Essen1]

Bill,

I don't know right off the top of my head. I don't have the book with me here at work. 

It's this one

[Bill/SFNM]

Bill,

I don't know right off the top of my head. I don't have the book with me here at work. 

I'm really disappointed in you. That book goes everywhere with me!

[Essen1]

I'm really disappointed in you. That book goes everywhere with me!

I'm embarrassed now 

But if I had the book with me here I wouldn't be able to make a living 

[Bill/SFNM]

Oh, so you must be one of those "man doesn't live by bread alone" people.

[Bill/SFNM]

Bill,

I don't know right off the top of my head. I don't have the book with me here at work. 

It's this one

That's the potato focaccia. Made it this week. Wonderful. Really wonderful.

[Essen1]

Oh, so you must be one of those "man doesn't live by bread alone" people.

I sleep with the book, though! Does that count?? 

I kept looking at the recipe but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. I think I'll add this to my weekend's baking plans.

[Bill/SFNM]

I sleep with the book, though! Does that count?? 

I kept looking at the recipe but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. I think I'll add this to my weekend's baking plans.

As long as you don't take it into the bathroom. That's off-limits for cookbooks. 

[Essen1]

As long as you don't take it into the bathroom. That's off-limits for cookbooks. 

Deal. 

[Jackie Tran]

Made pizza from the Tartine Country Bread dough that I made last night.   These are 2 of my favorite pies I've made.

Baked up in the MBE the crust was crispy, crumb was moist, airy, tender, and slightly chewy, and the 10% wheat flour gave it a really nice nutty taste.   Alexi, this is the pie you are looking for.

1st pie is Buffala Mozz, pepperonni, pineapple, basil, drizzled with OO, a dash of Parm/Romano.

2nd pie Quattro formaggi, basil, drizzle OO, & pinch of sea salt. 

I honestly could not say what was more enjoyable, this pizza or the bread.  Both were outstanding.  I will be doing this again soon.

Chau

[StrayBullet]

Great looking pies!  I wonder why the difference between the results you and Bill experienced?

Mark

[Essen1]

Chau,

Wow!

You had better luck with the pizza than I did. I baked mine in my regular oven but I know the book says something about 900°F. Next time, if the weather permits (rain season's almost here), I'll give it a shot in my LBE.

Great job, Bro.

[Jackie Tran]

Thanks Mark & Mike.   I definitely took lots of liberties as well.  Just a recap, this is the dough I made bread with here...

Reply #18
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12140.0.html

For the country bread recipe, Chad calls for use of white flour.  Assuming this is BF, I opted to use my HG flour instead.  Also instead of using a young leaven (levain), I used my activated mature Ischia starter.   The hydration ratio calculated with the leaven is ~77%.   

Using the same HG flour, I have made pizza dough in the hydration ratio range of 70-76%.   So the hydration ratio with this particular flour was not foreign to me.  Also in my own developed methods for making pizza dough and like Chad's method for making bread dough, I have use rather high hydration doughs with the addition of stretch and folds to build strength into the dough. 

The only points that differ from my own in using this recipe was the addition of 10% wheat flour and a 16 hour cold ferment which did indeed soften up the dough quite a bit.   I warmed proofed the cold fermented dough which really made it quite pliable and slack.  A little more difficult to work with but nothing out of the oridinary for me. 

So in working with this method and dough, I found it surprisingly familiar & similar to my own.  Being that I used a HG flour,  I baked it in my modified MBE with a hearth temp 550F for 2.5 minutes.   I always feel obligated to say that I don't  believe the 550F hearth temp to be an accurate representation or equivalent hearth temp to other ovens.   Therefore, I have no idea what temp I truely am baking at other than the pie is finished in 2.5 minutes.

Chau

[ponzu]

Beautiful pies Chau.

That crumb is visually perfect. 

I'm on call this weekend and am obsessed with my giants but I just might bake my first true Tartine bread tonight in the combo cooker.

I might try "turning" the dough with pulses in the Bosch."

Are you using your usual bromated HG flour?  I think he recommends APF in the book for the white doesn't he?  I've been using my Harvest King.

AZ

[Jackie Tran]

Alexi - Thank you for the nice words.  Tonight I made some fine pizzas using the his baguette bread dough as well.  I will post pics tomorrow or the next day.  Also I am working on making NP pizza dough with his technique of "turning" the dough by hand.   I made a batch of pizza dough tonight using a modified version of his hand technique. 

IT WAS THE SMOOTHEST DOUGH I HAVE EVER MIXED!!!  No joking it felt and looked like the pros dough (talking about some of our members here and all the nice NP dough you see on youtube).  It was white, soft, billowy, yes that's the word billowy.  It opened just like theirs did too.  Had a higher spring in the MBE oven as well.  Let's call this the Masters dough.

Did it taste any lighter or better than some of my best.  Maybe a hair more but I learned a ton from this experiment.  Basically to get that quality of dough like the NP masters, I am temporarily concluding that it can only be done by 1) hand or with a 2) spiral or slow mixer.   

Yes you heard me say it.  I don't want to admit this but tonight I realize the truth in it.   YES I can still mix a great dough with any mixer and by hand but to make this certain type of NP dough, it can be started in any mixer but really requires to be finished out by hand including mutliple rest periods like Chad teaches, unless you have a SPIRAL or some SLOW MIXER.  At some point in the future I will try to make this masters dough using the bosch but as of now, it must be mixed slower and more gentle than the bosch.

Sorry if I'm blabbing away and/or not making sense here.   Just wanted to get that off my chest while it's fresh in my mind. 

I started this experiment based on what Chad says on page 55.

"During the third hour, notice how the dough starts to get billowy, soft, and aerated with gas..."
 
It was this statement that got me interested in trying to make NP dough with his hand technique and it worked.   I'll post results later. 

[ponzu]

Alexi - Thank you for the nice words.  Tonight I made some fine pizzas using the his baguette bread dough.  I will post pics tomorrow or the next day.  Also I am working on making pizza dough with his technique of "turning" the dough by hand.   I made a batch of pizza dough tonight by hand using a modified version of his hand technique. 

IT WAS THE SMOOTHEST DOUGH I HAVE EVER MIXED!!!  No joking it felt and looked like the pros dough (talking about some of our members here and all the nice NP dough you see on youtube).  It was white, soft, billowy, yes that's the word billowy.  It opened just like theirs did too.  Had a higher spring in the MBE oven as well. 

Did it taste any lighter or better than some of my best.  Maybe a hair more but I learned a ton from this experiment.  Basically to get that quality of dough like the NP masters, I am temporarily concluding that it can only be done by 1) hand or with a 2) spiral or slow mixer.   

Yes you heard me say it.  I don't want to admit this but tonight I realize the truth in it.   YES I can still mix a great dough with any mixer and by hand but to make this certain type of NP dough, it can be started in any mixer but really requires to be finished out by hand including mutliple rest periods like Chad teaches, unless you have a SPIRAL or some SLOW MIXER.

Sorry if I'm blabbing away and/or not making sense here.   Just wanted to get that off my chest while it's fresh in my mind. 

I started this experiment based on what Chad says on page 55.

"During the third hour, notice how the dough starts to get billowy, soft, and aerated with gas..."
 
It was this statement that got me interested in trying to make NP dough with his hand technique and it worked.   I'll post results later. 

I'm excited for you JT. 

It sounds like you've made a breakthrough.  And the proof is in the pizza!

I'm not sure that you can conclude that it is the hand kneading that made the difference just yet though.  Unless I missed it, you haven't made the same dough using a mixer yet.

What you can certainly conclude is that your current method turned out a hell of a pie.

I look forward to pics of your baguette pies.

AZ