Author Topic: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book  (Read 31212 times)

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #75 on: March 23, 2011, 02:34:50 PM »
A few questions for you Bill so I hope you don't mind.

You probably don't time your bakes anymore, but was the bake time similar to your regular lower hydration pies?

Also did this pie have a similar crisp to the crust or less b/c of the increase hydration?  
Was the crumb perfectly moist/baked or was it slightly on the wet side?  
For future pizza, would you keep this hydration ratio or would you lower it a bit?

Just trying to get my head wrapped around WFO baking before I actually do it.


So one would think these pies might take longer to bake since the dough has more moisture. But the weight of the raw dough ball was exactly the same as usual, so if I did the math right, there are ~100g of total water in each of these pies vs. ~95g for my previous ones.  Not a big difference; I would guess cooking times will me about the same.

Not sure why but these pies were a little crispier on the bottom. Perhaps I over compensated for the high hydration by using more bench flour than usual.

Crumb was perfect for my taste, not at all on the wet. Very, very soft - some bites almost melting away.
 
Not sure what to do about hydration next time, but I would guess I was over the reported 70% since I like to sprinkle water on the dough after each fold.   
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2011, 03:04:47 PM »
Thank you Bill.  My guess on why they were a bit crispier is that they were more aerated than your typically pies.  More aerated crumbs will give me a bit crispier crunchier bite.

Offline R2-Bayou

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2011, 05:50:04 PM »
Here is a video showing how I made pizzas using the Tartine method with 70% hydration, Caputo 00 flour, and the Tuscan wild starter. The best crust I have ever eaten - incredibly light and tender and delicious. I'm not going to jump to conclusions like I have in the past after just one batch, but my fork mixer may be retired soon from pizza making. Definitely going to stick with this method for a while.

Please watch in HD if you can





Awesome video!!
"Wretched excess is just barely enough."

Offline StrayBullet

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #78 on: March 26, 2011, 11:49:30 AM »
Here is a video showing how I made pizzas using the Tartine method with 70% hydration, Caputo 00 flour, and the Tuscan wild starter. The best crust I have ever eaten - incredibly light and tender and delicious. I'm not going to jump to conclusions like I have in the past after just one batch, but my fork mixer may be retired soon from pizza making. Definitely going to stick with this method for a while.

Please watch in HD if you can





Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to do this, very informative!!!

I've been searching but haven't seen what % starter you are using; is it the same from the book or have you deviated?  Thanks!

Mark

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2011, 11:56:55 AM »
Mark,

8% of total dough weight (usual amount for my pizza dough is 4%)
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline StrayBullet

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #80 on: March 27, 2011, 06:53:49 PM »
There are a TON of things wrong with the pie in the pics below but as always, I learn!  By FAR, this has been the best structured crumb I've ever produced!  70% hydration, 8% total weight starter, 2.5% salt with a 75/25 blend of HG/00, between 2.5 and 3 minute bake.  It was a total bastardization after that :D

I've been trying to make sure my starter is really active so I've been feeding several times after pulling out of the fridge.  Once it fully domes/floats, I discard/feed.  I keep repeating this until it fully domes under 3 hours...I've never gotten the Ischia to be ready quicker....point being, the starter is definitely packing more of a punch, both flavor and leaven wise.  By the time I got around to making the dough last night, it was midnight!

I added 3/4 of the flour mix, all of the starter, then let it set for 25 minutes.  I then added the remaining flour and squeezed in the salt.  I poured the dough into a plastic container and aggressively folded every 15 minutes.  I could definitely feel the texture change over the course of 2 hours and ideally, the stretch/fold would have gone on for another 2 hours or so but damn was I tired!

I put 'em in the fridge, pulled one out around noon and baked it off at 6pm....there are many adjustments I need to make, but again, I'm extremely pleased with the texture!

parallei

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #81 on: April 01, 2011, 10:47:11 PM »
My Tartine method pizza attempt.  8% Ischia starter (total dough weight as per Bill/SFNM) 70% HR, 50/50 San Felice OO/KASL, 2% Salt.  Six turns/folds in first 2 hours, 2 hour at room temp, ball, into fridge for 48 hours.  Room temp. for two hours.  About 2 minutes on the 2Stone at 750ish (first use of 2Stone this spring).  Great tasting pie with "micro" crust and tender interior.

I need to remember how to cut back on the top temp on the 2Stone more effectively!  Sorry for the poor photo's, but you get the idea.

Paul

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #82 on: April 01, 2011, 11:10:10 PM »
Paul, that pie looks freaking awesome!!! Very nice.  I love it.  The char is perfect in my eyes.  Do you realize how many members would love to make something like that?  ;)

Chau
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 11:50:05 PM by Jackie Tran »

parallei

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2011, 11:42:09 PM »
Thanks for the kind words Chau.

Though I love my 2Stone, it sure would be great to have the flexibility during a bake that a WFO must offer.  I thinking of the ability to move a pie closer/further to a flame, to hotter/cooler spots on the deck and up toward the dome.  Then there is the whole bread and roasting thing!

I'm looking forward to seeing both yours and Craig's efforts with the new ovens......

Paul


buceriasdon

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2011, 08:03:38 AM »
Paul, Indeed, great job.  ;D
Don ;D

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2011, 09:30:51 AM »
Excellent looking pie Paul.

Mark - Your crumb looks fantastic!

John

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2011, 11:02:56 AM »
From last night,  5 day old tartine style pizza dough, under 1 minute bake.  Roma 00 KA starter,  and example of a dough on the brink of death,  and why the Neapolitans think a lot of us are overfermenting.  While it may be visually impressive,  I have had much better crusts. -marc

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #87 on: April 02, 2011, 11:13:41 AM »
LOVE the look Marc.  Can you tell us what % of starter you used and describe why or how the crust was not the best.  I imagine the flavor was there but the texture was not.  Was the a bit chewy, dry, or on the heavy side?  Any crumb shots?  

IYO, can a pizza be made with this look and an excellent light airy crumb?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 02:16:18 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline ponzu

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #88 on: April 02, 2011, 02:22:53 PM »
It IS visually impressive Marc!

AZ

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2011, 04:26:06 PM »
JT,  I used 10% starter in this dough,  which is more than I use normally.  I did that to make it ripen so that I could eat it last sunday night,  yet hadn't started it until about 11am.  That worked out just fine.  I knew I would not use all the dough,  so after division,  I put 3 away in the fridge before doing a final fermentaion on the 3 for last sunday.  Bottom line,  is that the dough was a little gummy,  and heavy,  not dry or chewy at all.  It was just showing its age I think and the acids had already gotten to the gluten structure.  It was good,  but the sunday pies were superior,  due to the light and crispy nature of the baked skin.  I think that one could make a doughwith this look and a light and airy crumb,  but the dough would never be this old.  Somewhere a couple days ago might have done it,  but who knows for sure.  Every time I see dough blister up like that it isa combination of super hot oven and super fermented dough.  Its amazing how quickly the dough pocks like that.  Hope this helps,  and cant wait to see what you pull out of your oven.  -Marc

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2011, 04:55:14 PM »
Nice response Marc.  I think I understand exactly what you mean by your description of the 2 crumbs. I agree with you 100%.  I think at that advance stage, it's natural that you get a heavier, gummier, and doughier crumb.  It is the acids doing it's thing.  Not neccesarily good or bad but just what it is.  It's no big deal to most ppl until you've eaten a superlight crust and crumb made with 00, then it is night and day.  The other can be good just not as good as it could potentially be.   

Once I am able to get the super high heat of a WFO, I'll definitely try to find a balance between the look and the texture, but if I had to sacrifice one for the other, I would sacrifice the look any day. 

Did you noticed that these 5 day doughs were sour at all?  On a scale of 1-10, could you place a number on the sourness if 10 is really sour.   

These are perhaps some of the first pies that I've seen you post in awhile, since I'm fairly new here.  They look as outstanding as the ones you've posted in the past. 

Thanks
Chau

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2011, 06:26:56 PM »
Chau,  I am having a hard time saying how sour these were.  They were not overly so,  I would say right down the middle,  4 or 5.  One of the best things that chads book has done for me is endorse the use of a young starter.  This does two things usually.  It ensures a light sourness,  and also that the crumb does not suffers damage prematurely due to an overly acidic starter.  Some of my pizzas used to be super sour,  and while I do like that sometimes,  the window of perfection between crumb and flavor is super small.  Thank You for the for the nice words,  I am exited for all of the new WFO owners jumping on board this spring,  it will keep the board full of images.


  FWIW,  this is the dough the other night,  but not baked quite as hot.  -marc


parallei

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2011, 09:34:26 PM »
One of tonight's pies with the Tartine method.  Same as last time: 70% HR, 50/50 KASL/San Felice, 2% Salt, 8% Starter (total dough weight), 48 hours in the fridge.  Still blown away with this method.....will stop posting repetitious photo's soon :-[

Paul

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #93 on: April 06, 2011, 09:47:53 PM »
That pie looks great Paul.  I'm sure you enjoyed eating it as well.  I'm partial to those knobby looking rims.

Chau

parallei

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #94 on: April 06, 2011, 09:56:46 PM »
Thanks Chau.  Not sure what the deal with the knobs is.  Higher HR maybe?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #95 on: April 14, 2011, 11:55:20 PM »
Paul, I get the knobs when there is good gluten development and I trap some air in the dough.  As I make the skin, the air gets pushed out to the rim and creates the knobs.  Not sure if  that is actually what is going on but that is what I think anyway.

Made dough for a loaf of bread and it was too nice to pass up for making pizza so that's what I did.   HG flour, 80% HR, 36% starter, cold fermented 18hrs, proofed 2.

Pic 1 margherita
Pic 2 rosa with red sauce
Pic 3 marinara

parallei

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #96 on: April 15, 2011, 10:42:23 PM »
Chau,

Here are a couple from this evening.  I lowered the HR down to 64% and also cut the 2Stone's temp down to about 675F.  Same 8% starter. Not as knobby.  Of course I don't know which of the changes made the difference.....

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2011, 07:29:13 AM »
Beautiful pizzas Paul and Chau. I am assuming you guys are not using the 10% WW flour in these? Have you tried it that way?

John

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2011, 07:51:07 AM »
Thanks John.  I haven't made any recently with 10% whole wheat but did a few back in reply #13 on page 1.  I remember it having a very nice nutty taste to it. 

parallei

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2011, 10:26:08 AM »
John-

No WW.  I'm not a fan of WW in pizza.

I guess the the only Tartine thing I'm really doing at this point is using the stretch and folds and the work flow (for the most part).  I'm using an activated starter instead of the overnight leaven  (about 8% of total dough weight), stretch and folds for 2 hours, leaving at room temp for a few more hours then into the fridge for 24 hours. Then, room temp for 2 hours before I form the pies.  No re-balling or anything. I'm lazy I guess :o


 

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