Author Topic: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book  (Read 31277 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2011, 09:06:28 AM »
Okay so I was messing around and wanted to try and make a Tartine look alike bread using IDY instead of starter/levain just to see what would happen.

I made a an 83% hydrated HG dough with 0.3% IDY.   I mixed the IDY, flour, and water by hand following the Tartine method.  AL for 45m, then salt was squeeze in per tartine method.  I rested the dough 30m and then did the first series of turns.  Instead of 3 folds, I did closer to 10-12 and balled the dough up.  Then it went to sleep for 36hours in fridge.  There was some rise to the dough but not a lot.  When I pulled the dough out, it took me back to my first ever perfect pie.  The dough looked and felt just the same.   Soft, slack, but with strong gluten development.  So I ditched the bread experiment and divided the dough to make 2 pies to see what I would get.  After warm proofing, the dough felt really nice for pizza dough.  These were only 190gm a piece.  I was at the very end of my propane tank so the first pie was good but 2nd with a new tank was better as I could get the heat a bit higher.  The 2nd had HUGE spring and voids.  Crust and crumb was excellent.  Nice moist crumb and slightly soft crust despite it's dark look.  I'll decrease the hydration next time for a pizza dough and also revisit using this technique with caputo.  

AND I'm taking back all the negative things I've said about cold ferments.  I just didn't have the knowledge and skill at the time.  I've been making good bread and pizza with cold fermented doughs lately.  Hope it continues.  I'm still learning.... 8)

Here's the pizza.  Enjoy.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 10:34:58 PM by Jackie Tran »


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2011, 09:15:42 AM »
Very nice pies. Chau.

I've been giving a lot of thought to this topic lately, even after the mediocre results described in the first post of this thread. I had just embarked on the Tartine voyage. Many, many batches of Tartine dough later, I think I am ready to give it another try. As a result of all I've learned, my approach will be somewhat different than the before. Plan is to build the dough on Sunday to bake on Monday. Caputo, many folds, Tuscan starter, room temp and then overnight in fridge. There is a pretty big difference in the amount of starter in the Tartine dough and in my regular pizza dough. Maybe I'll split the difference.

Stay tuned.
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2011, 09:22:48 AM »
Thank you Bill and best of luck.  Looking forward to your results.  I think you would have enjoyed these pies, but maybe I can make it even better with caputo flour, so I'm going to try.  I'm making a caputo batch this morning with a similar workflow.  Will bake it in 2 days or whenever it's ready.  If I can only get the crust worked out, I'll be sending you an invitation soon.

Chau

Offline StrayBullet

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2011, 03:56:25 PM »
That pie looks amazing Chau!!!  Much like the one I indulged on late this morning at Pizzaiolo Bavaro :D

Mark

Offline ponzu

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2011, 05:47:10 PM »
Chau.

Those pies are beautiful.  Particularly the second one. 

Although the crumb is just another ho hum JT perfect crumb, the overall appearance of the pie is completely original and unlike anything I've seen before.  That is

the opposite of reverse engineering.  That is spontaneous genius inspiration.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2011, 05:58:10 PM »
Thanks, you guys are always too kind.   What a nice thing to say Alexi.  I was happy to sort of stumble across this as lately I've been trying a bunch of other stuff that has not been stellar.  I really need to get this dough process down to have Bill over soon to verify that I'm not really that crazy.   :-D  Chasing this magical crust has been hit and miss.  

Kidding aside, I just mixed up 2 tester batches of 70/30 00/hg today using a very similar process.  For the first batch, the salt was added a la tartine method.  The 2nd one, the salt was dissolved in the water along with the IDY, and the dough is feeling nice already.   I need to work out the few small details like how much hand kneading vs when to ball the dough (before or after a certain number of hours cold fermented), but so far I'm keeping my excitement at bay.  Hoping to have another great bake in a few days.  

Chau

Okay a few pics of the 70% caputo hand made dough.   Bill I forgot to say that this is 69% HR with 30% HG BF.  If you are doing a 100% caputo, I would not go beyond 70% hydration but I'm sure you will find your balance.  
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 11:46:30 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2011, 09:09:57 AM »
Pizza from the dough (70/30 00/HG) pictured above in reply #55 can be seen here at replies #68 & #69.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13036.msg131769.html#msg131769

These pies were really good texturally and did resemble their HG counterparts in reply #50 above.

I decided to not post them here b/c at this point they have too many deviations to be considered Tartine pizza.   I did borrow a few techniques from the Tartine bread method, but that is their only Tartine trait.  
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 09:11:28 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2011, 08:20:18 PM »
Here is a video showing how I made pizzas using the Tartine method with 70% hydration, Caputo 00 flour, and the Tuscan wild starter. The best crust I have ever eaten - incredibly light and tender and delicious. I'm not going to jump to conclusions like I have in the past after just one batch, but my fork mixer may be retired soon from pizza making. Definitely going to stick with this method for a while.

Please watch in HD if you can



Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2011, 09:21:10 PM »
Here is a video showing how I made pizzas using the Tartine method with 70% hydration, Caputo 00 flour, and the Tuscan wild starter. The best crust I have ever eaten - incredibly light and tender and delicious. I'm not going to jump to conclusions like I have in the past after just one batch, but my fork mixer may be retired soon from pizza making. Definitely going to stick with this method for a while.

Please watch in HD if you can





I love your videos Bill!  Nice job on the pizza.  It looks delicious!  I have to agree with you.  The last 2-3 round of pies I have made have been hand made using a modified tartine (stretch and fold) method with great results.  Very light crust and tender.  I too am afraid I may retire my bosch for mixing pizza dough.   Although I have also made very light crusts with mixing it by bosch as well, so too earlier to tell which method is easier and less work.  

Tonight's hand made pies.  Both 24 hour pies.  I made one with IDY and one with Starter.  60/40 00/hg blend.  Can members spot which is which?  


« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 10:48:27 AM by Jackie Tran »


Offline Ronzo

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2011, 09:22:50 PM »
Here is a video showing how I made pizzas using the Tartine method with 70% hydration, Caputo 00 flour, and the Tuscan wild starter. The best crust I have ever eaten - incredibly light and tender and delicious. I'm not going to jump to conclusions like I have in the past after just one batch, but my fork mixer may be retired soon from pizza making. Definitely going to stick with this method for a while.

Please watch in HD if you can




I love the "special effects", Bill. Great job on the pizza and the video production.
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2011, 09:43:35 PM »
I love the "special effects", Bill. Great job on the pizza and the video production.

Thanks, Ronzo. Actually there isn't a single effect in the video as it now stands. By the time I turn it in for a class I am taking in video editing, it will have a bunch of visual effects, color correction, a new sound track, and be quite a bit shorter. But for now, everything you see is what was actually recorded.
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline Ronzo

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2011, 09:53:12 PM »
Thanks, Ronzo. Actually there isn't a single effect in the video as it now stands. By the time I turn it in for a class I am taking in video editing, it will have a bunch of visual effects, color correction, a new sound track, and be quite a bit shorter. But for now, everything you see is what was actually recorded.
Was talking about the choreography to the music, and the slow-mo. Looked great. Eventually I want to take a class like you're taking too... so let me wish you good luck in it!
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2011, 09:57:53 PM »
Was talking about the choreography to the music, and the slow-mo. Looked great. Eventually I want to take a class like you're taking too... so let me wish you good luck in it!

I forgot, there is time-remapping on the very last scene with the close-up of the slice. The scene with the final fold of the dough is full-speed - I am just moving my arm very slowly. If you watch the other hand, it is moving at normal speed.



 
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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2011, 10:16:18 PM »
Bill,  everything looked great,  pizza video,  crumb.  Excellent job all around.  From your preliminary attempt at tartine pizza,  I for one never thought I would see a post like tonights.  So when do the rest of us get a hold of that tuscan starter so that it be preserved in the pizzamaking.com hall of fame. :chef: -marc

Offline ponzu

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2011, 11:00:16 PM »
Bravo Bill.  You have unmatchod skills as a pizzaola and as a food documentarian.

And Bravo JT.  I really love the new proportions of your pies the rim looks just perfect in  size and volume in relation to the flat.  They have really evolved aesthetucally of late I think.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2011, 12:28:50 AM »
Here is a video showing how I made pizzas using the Tartine method
Pizza making videos now have a new level to achieve.  You have raised the bar mighty high, the pizza looks absolutely stellar. 
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2011, 12:51:00 AM »
...  I made one with IDY and one with Starter...

OK, the first is the starter and the second is the IDY.  If I am wrong just tell me what was the tell-tale signs from the pictures that I should have caught. :pizza:
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Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2011, 12:53:10 AM »
I too have the same guess as Jet Deck

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2011, 06:18:11 AM »
Bill - Your pizza in the video looks outstanding. Was this your normal cold ferment for the final proof, as you would a Tartine loaf?

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2011, 06:22:26 AM »
Chau - Awesome stuff. You keep pushing yourself and get successively better results. The second pie looks like starter.

John

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #70 on: March 23, 2011, 06:38:44 AM »
Bill - Your pizza in the video looks outstanding. Was this your normal cold ferment for the final proof, as you would a Tartine loaf?

John

Thanks, John. After folding, the dough continues to ferment in the fridge overnight. But after shaping, the final proof is always at room temp.
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Offline andreguidon

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #71 on: March 23, 2011, 06:50:56 AM »
love the editing Bill !!! Great WORK !!
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #72 on: March 23, 2011, 08:48:12 AM »
Bill,

Great video of showing how you use the Tartine method of making pizza.  :) I really love the video. The crust looks delicious!  Those WFOís are the best in combination with your techniques!  Truly a wonderful job all together.

Chau,

Your pizza using the Tartine method looks delicious also!  :)

Norma   
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2011, 10:56:05 AM »
Thanks Alexi, John, and Norma.  I thought the pies were good too.   :-D

First one is IDY and 2nd one is starter.   JD, I don't know if there are tell-tale signs, I just thought both crumbs were very similar in texture, taste, and look.  John got it right so maybe he can tell us how he did it.   

I will say that starter provided higher lift than the IDY dough which was a bit surprising but it may have been due to balling the starter dough much later in the fermentation process. 

Same weight, Starter dough is on the left and IDY dough on the right.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizza from the "Tartine Bread" book
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2011, 11:33:13 AM »
A few questions for you Bill so I hope you don't mind.

You probably don't time your bakes anymore, but was the bake time similar to your regular lower hydration pies?

Also did this pie have a similar crisp to the crust or less b/c of the increase hydration?  
Was the crumb perfectly moist/baked or was it slightly on the wet side?  
For future pizza, would you keep this hydration ratio or would you lower it a bit?

Just trying to get my head wrapped around WFO baking before I actually do it.

Many thanks,
Chau
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 01:19:06 PM by Jackie Tran »