Trouble with Lehmann's dough.........HELP

[jasonmtcsn]

I started using Lehmann's about a month ago, and here's the numbers I've been following. I been warm rising it, and using a folding technique about half way through rising. And i started sneaking in about 30g of SS, and some vital wheat gluten too. 

flour 100% 364.95g
water 60% 218.97g
IDY    0.5% 0.06oz
salt 1.5% 0.19oz
oil 1% 0.13oz
sugar 1% 0.13oz

I started using Hungarian High Altitude flour, and made some great pies. The dough would stretch very easily, and had the oil worked right into it. It was beautiful. I mean I could stretch into a 20 inch pie with no problems.
But now, I can barely get a 14 inch. And the dough is really thick and bready. And full of patched holes.

And then I switched to KA AP, and the first couple of pies came out great and stretchy, but now they have been coming out dry. They tear when i try to stretch them, but before, the oil was worked into the dough, and they would stretch really easily.

I also started using bottled water about the same time I switched to KAAP, and the weather here in Arizona got a little rainy. Those are the only changes I can think of. The technique is exactly the same, except maybe a tiny variation in kneading or something.

What could cause the dough to suddenly just dry out, and not have that elastic-y, oily, rubbery appeal to them anymore.

Can a small variation in kneading affect the dough that much. Or can the humidity in the air.

IDK. What am I doing wrong? 

[c0mpl3x]

ferment times oven temp stretch technique etc we need to know what youre doing

sounds like dead yeast too if its not rising.

[Pete-zza]

jasonmtcsn,

I agree with c0mpl3x that more information is needed. Here are my questions that might help identify the problems you have been experiencing:

1. Are you using only hand kneading? If so, please explain in detail the sequence of steps you have been following. If you are combining hand kneading with a machine, please explain the combination of steps you have been using.

2. Why have you been using the folding technique?

3. What is "SS", and have you just been adding it to the dough formulatioin you posted and, if so, how have you been incorporating it into the dough?

4. What brand of vital wheat gluten have you been using? Have you just been adding it to the dough formulation you posted and, if so, how have you been incorporatiing it into the dough?

5. How much vital wheat gluten have you been adding to the dough, either by weight or by volume?

6. Have you been having problems with the dough only when using SS (whatever that is) and/or vital wheat gluten?

Peter

[jasonmtcsn]

I've been kneading it using a kitchen aid table mixer for all the kneading. I've been following Lehmann's recipe very closely on that one.

I started adding about 1/4c of sourdough starter to the water, I was still getting some great crusts with it.
And i'm using about 1 tbsp Hodgsen Mills vital wheat gluten.

I've been using the vital wheat gluten the whole time, but the starter I think I added later on. I was still getting great crusts with it. It was a few batches after that. That the dough underwent this mysterious change.

I let it rise about 90 minutes and then use that folding technique. IDK why I use it that technique, I heard it made the dough light and airy. And then I crank on the oven on autoclean, and give the dough another 40 minutes of rise time before tossing it in.

[Pete-zza]

jasonmtcsn,

The information provided helps clarify some of the numbers but nothing jumps out at me to suggest what has been going wrong with your dough, especially since you said that you did not change things materially from one dough to the next. However, it sounds like you have been trying to make what I would call an emergency dough, which is a dough that is to be made and used within a few hours. Is that what you have been trying to do? Also, I noted that you initially said that you used a sourdough starter weighing 30 grams but later you said that you used 1/4 cup of sourdough starter. You didn't indicate the consistency of your sourdough starter but typically 1/4 cup of starter would weigh around 65 grams, not 30 grams. You also mentioned using the fold technique after the dough has risen for a while. Is it possible that that was a change from your previous method that produced good results?

If your objective is to make an emergency dough, your procedures are not consistent with the way that emergency doughs are typically made. However, I will await your further response before discussing this aspect further.

BTW, according to the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator at http://tools.foodsim.com/, adding one tablespoon of the Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten (VWG) to 364.95 grams of King Arthur all-purpose flour (KAAP) increases the protein content of the KAAP to around 13%. A flour blend with a protein content of 13% will usually call for a hydration of around 62-63%, which is higher than the 60% hydration called for by the dough formulation you posted. The use of a sourdough starter might also affect the hydration of the dough formulation but you did not indicate the consistency of the sourdough starter you used. So, it is not possible to accurately assess the effect of your sourdough starter on the total formula hydration. I am not sure that the answer mill affect things in a material way but it is always best to have the correct numbers in front of us.

For the record, I don't think that the water or the rainy weather in Arizona are behind the problems you have been discussing. Is it possible that the weather has turned cooler in Arizona?

Peter