Author Topic: My lame attempt at a NY style  (Read 2679 times)

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Offline dellavecchia

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My lame attempt at a NY style
« on: February 11, 2011, 06:27:26 AM »
I tried a cold fermented dough with my natural starter that went nowhere after 2 days in the fridge. I baked it anyways at 500 for 8 minutes (!) - I will spare you the crumb shots. It tasted fantastic, but it was chewy. Cake yeast next time - or a room temp starter ferment.

John


Offline doughboy55

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 01:28:59 PM »
looks pretty good to me, you will get the crumb your looking for next time.

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 02:05:31 PM »
Don't be discouraged and give up on the starter.  I'll bet most of the great successes on this forum began with a "lame" result.  Just try and figure out what went wrong and what variables could directly impact it.  Maybe your starter wasn't mature, or perhaps you didn't incorporate enough to do the job for a cold rise.

- GB  :chef:
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 03:41:39 PM »
Maybe your starter wasn't mature, or perhaps you didn't incorporate enough to do the job for a cold rise.

- GB  :chef:

Agreed - I had never tried using this starter as the main fermentation vehicle in a cold stage. I need to up it dramatically, or get it going at room temp for a longer period of time before refrigeration.

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 06:01:50 PM »
A little less lame, but sort of ugly looking attempt. I am trying to master the broiler technique, but I have some work to do. Down to a 5 minute bake though! Excellent texture and taste - slightly chewy.

3-day cold ferment, 100% KABF (I am loving this flour). Next week will be a same day starter dough using a formula Chau was kind enough to help me with. I am having fun trying out this style.

Flour (100%):    303.58 g  |  10.71 oz | 0.67 lbs
Water (63%):    191.26 g  |  6.75 oz | 0.42 lbs
CY (.5%):       1.52 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs |
Salt (2%):            6.07 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.26 tsp | 0.42 tbsp
Oil (1%):       3.04 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
Sugar (1%):    3.04 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Total (167.5%):   508.5 g | 17.94 oz | 1.12 lbs | TF = 0.1015

John


Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 06:59:46 PM »
A little less lame, but sort of ugly looking attempt.

Ugly food always tastes better.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2011, 12:21:24 PM »
Looks Great!
 :pizza: :pizza:


...keep in mind a lot of NY style places don't have a lot of oven spring or rim rise.Most don't even seem to care about that.
 :-D
-Bill

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2011, 02:39:18 PM »


...keep in mind a lot of NY style places don't have a lot of oven spring or rim rise.Most don't even seem to care about that.
 :-D


You know, you are right. Next time I will forget about the broiler and try for a 6 minute bake. My stone only gets up to 600.

John

Offline chickenparm

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2011, 08:21:13 PM »
I still like the way the broiler worked on your pizza.That said,I have not ever made a pizza using the broiler in my oven.

The cheese always cooks fast in mine,so I just use the bottom element and the stone,that for all my NY style pies,its worked well.I do like the well done look to the top part of your pie...I used to order my pies that way in NY,always asked the pizza maker to make it a little more "well done".
 :)






-Bill


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2011, 06:14:44 PM »
A 30% starter, same day dough, Organic KABF. Thanks to Chau for the hints! And no broiler this time.

I need to buy a kiln shelf - my stone refused to go above 550 tonight.

John

buceriasdon

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2011, 06:30:28 PM »
John, Looks superb to me my friend.
Don

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2011, 06:34:30 PM »
Thank you Don - for me, this is a challenging style to bake.

John

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2011, 07:26:14 PM »
What was hydration for this batch?

Offline doughboy55

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2011, 07:45:19 PM »
nice pizza's John looks delicious.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2011, 09:16:46 PM »
What was hydration for this batch?

64%.

John

Online norma427

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2011, 09:48:57 PM »
John,

That is a delicious looking pizza!  :) What don't you like about it?

Norma


Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2011, 10:35:07 PM »
I'm with Norma I don't see anything wrong with them. Did the dough not meet your expectations?


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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2011, 07:33:10 AM »
John, what's the bake time? 5-6 minutes?  If that's the case, you're producing explosive, 3 minute-ish, Chau-like oven spring in almost twice the time- and that's quite an impressive feat. To do that, your recipe and approach have to be flawless. 

I need to buy a kiln shelf - my stone refused to go above 550 tonight.

If 550 is as high as your oven can muster without being modded, go with 1/2" steel plate.  A 1" kiln shelf will probably pump out a 4 minute pie @ 550, but there's no guarantees, while with 1/2" steel plate, 4 minutes is a walk in the park.  At 550 with 1/2" steel plate, you could easily be seeing as little as 2 1/2" minute bakes, and, if you can push the oven a little higher, you might even be able to see sub 2 minute Neapolitan bakes at 600. Maybe.  But NY/Neo-NY times, that's a guarantee.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2011, 08:50:28 AM »
John, what's the bake time? 5-6 minutes?  If that's the case, you're producing explosive, 3 minute-ish, Chau-like oven spring in almost twice the time- and that's quite an impressive feat. To do that, your recipe and approach have to be flawless.  

If 550 is as high as your oven can muster without being modded, go with 1/2" steel plate.

Scott - Thanks very much for the guidance. I will definitely see what I can find in my area for 1/2" steel and give it a try.

To answer Norma and David: The problem I am having is that the top does not brown to my liking. The pale, cream colored crust baked this long is not appetizing to me. When I tried the broiler, it just burned (as you can see in the second bake in this thread). I guess I just need the proper heat, which my oven may not be able to produce.

The dough itself is very tasty, and I put the 3-day cold ferment I did with cake yeast at the top of the pack in that regard. Here is the formula I used for this last dough:

Total Formula:
Flour (100%):
Water (64%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (3%):
Total (169%):

Preferment:
Flour:
Water:
Total:

Final Dough:
Flour:
Water:
Salt:
Preferment:
Oil:
Total:

270.8 g  |  9.55 oz | 0.6 lbs
173.31 g  |  6.11 oz | 0.38 lbs
5.42 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.13 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
8.12 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.81 tsp | 0.6 tbsp
457.65 g | 16.14 oz | 1.01 lbs | TF = 0.09135
 
 
40.62 g | 1.43 oz | 0.09 lbs
40.62 g | 1.43 oz | 0.09 lbs
81.24 g | 2.87 oz | 0.18 lbs

 
230.18 g | 8.12 oz | 0.51 lbs
132.69 g | 4.68 oz | 0.29 lbs
5.42 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.13 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
81.24 g | 2.87 oz | 0.18 lbs
8.12 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.81 tsp | 0.6 tbsp
457.65 g | 16.14 oz | 1.01 lbs  | TF = 0.09135

Hand mix minus the salt and oil. Autolyse 30 minutes. Squeezed in oil and salt, then 4 stretch and folds over the course of 2 hours at around 80 degrees. Proofed at 67 for 5 hours. 6 minute bake.

John
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 08:55:08 AM by dellavecchia »

Online norma427

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2011, 09:24:30 AM »
John,

Thanks for showing your formula and telling what workflow you used for your dough.  I can understand now that you just want your crust to brown better.  Was your recent attempt okay in terms of moistness in the crust?  

Norma

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2011, 09:38:28 AM »
I totally understand what you are saying about the crust not browning enough. I'm having the same problem right now because the stone is on the last shelf and the only thing that works is putting a screen right under the broiler to brown the crust slightly. Where is your stone located in the oven.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2011, 10:46:08 AM »
I totally understand what you are saying about the crust not browning enough. I'm having the same problem right now because the stone is on the last shelf and the only thing that works is putting a screen right under the broiler to brown the crust slightly. Where is your stone located in the oven.

My stone is on the bottom shelf the entire time.

John

Online norma427

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2011, 11:20:17 AM »
John,

I don't know if this will help your or not, but if you are satisfied how the crusts taste and it is moist enough I did try dairy whey in my preferment Lehmann dough and got good results in more coloration.

Norma

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2011, 03:49:04 PM »
John,

I don't know if this will help your or not, but if you are satisfied how the crusts taste and it is moist enough I did try dairy whey in my preferment Lehmann dough and got good results in more coloration.

Norma

Thanks for the tip Norma. I will try it out this weekend.

John

Online norma427

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Re: My lame attempt at a NY style
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2011, 05:17:37 PM »
John,

If you decide to try dairy whey out for better coloration, I used 4% of the total flour weight.  I also made a dough ball this week with 10% dairy whey, but didn't get to try that dough ball out.  I froze it and am going to try it out next week.  The reason I am trying 10% was because that was at the advise of Tom Lehmann.  Just watch your bottom crust if you even try 4% of dairy whey, because the whole pie did brown faster for me.

Norma


 

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