Author Topic: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'  (Read 20157 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2010, 02:56:31 PM »
Chau,

See Reply 122 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,504.msg11222.html#msg11222. There are a couple of photos of pizzas before that reply but no crumb shot.

Peter


Offline Essen1

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2010, 03:23:43 PM »
I think I made one last night by accident. But since I have never eaten there, I don't know how the crust should be. What I do know is that he uses three types of cheese, fresh mozza, regular mozza and Grana Padano before they go into the oven.

A couple of pics and one for comparison purposes. They look pretty similar.
Mike

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2010, 04:07:33 PM »
Peter, thanks for the link.  I'll go through that thread as I have time.  In all your efforts, did you feel that you or other members were able to come close to replicating the crust?   I think a crumb shot, and an approximate bake time would tell me alot. 

Mike your pie and cheese toppings does look like a Difara pie. 

Offline Essen1

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2010, 04:27:31 PM »
Peter, thanks for the link.  I'll go through that thread as I have time.  In all your efforts, did you feel that you or other members were able to come close to replicating the crust?   I think a crumb shot, and an approximate bake time would tell me alot. 

Mike your pie and cheese toppings does look like a Difara pie. 

That was by accident.

Anyway, I've read somewhere that the baking time at DiFara's is around 7-8 mins. I got to see if I still can find the info.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Mike

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Offline thezaman

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2010, 04:47:16 PM »
mike, that looks realy close! if your dough in on the light side you are even closer. i think what makes his pizza so special is that he uses a generous amont of very high qualty toppings and ingrediants. my point on my clone was not realy that my pizza tasted like doms , but if you are willing to splurge on good topping you can have a really great pizza. fresh, basil good grated cheese and tasty evoo would bring any pizza up a couple of nothces. it takes guts to charge 5.00 for a slice of pizza, di fara cusomers seem happy  and plentyful .

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2010, 04:48:38 PM »
In all your efforts, did you feel that you or other members were able to come close to replicating the crust?

Chau,

I made a few smaller pizzas that I thought were an improvement over the DeMarco dough that were baked in my standard unmodified electric home oven (see Replies 130+ starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,504.msg28423.html#msg28423) but I couldn't make an authentic 18" DeMarco clone pizza because my pizza stone was too small and I didn't have the oven heat to do what Dom DeMarco did. There were other members who used similar flour blends as Dom DeMarco used and used units like the 2Stone to bake their pizzas with higher heat, with pretty good success as I recall, but I do not recall that anyone made an 18" clone of a DeMarco pizza based on the information that Pete Taylor and I uncovered when we worked on the reverse engineering project.

I'm sure that you will be able to come up with a better product once you get an idea as to what the crumb looks like and especially if you use sauce, cheese and other toppings like those that Dom uses. My recollection is that there wasn't a great deal of oven spring. Dom's pizzas take a long time to bake and, if I recall correctly, the finished crust is not soft, open and airy as a result.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2010, 04:59:35 PM »
Peter,

There's a video on YouTube from a chef who mentions that DiFara uses AP flour for all their pies. I don't know how true that is, or if he might has different info than us here but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2010, 05:01:38 PM »
mike, that looks realy close! if your dough in on the light side you are even closer. i think what makes his pizza so special is that he uses a generous amont of very high qualty toppings and ingrediants. my point on my clone was not realy that my pizza tasted like doms , but if you are willing to splurge on good topping you can have a really great pizza. fresh, basil good grated cheese and tasty evoo would bring any pizza up a couple of nothces. it takes guts to charge 5.00 for a slice of pizza, di fara cusomers seem happy  and plentyful .

Zaman,

I was messing around last night with a different dough formula, using 65% hydration and KABF, a two-hour proofing window and that's what I came up with.

The crust was pretty light and airy, but also had a good crunch to it. However, I think we would have to have the same temps as DiFara to make a clone that comes really close.
Mike

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Offline norma427

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2010, 05:55:59 PM »
Found it:

http://www.pizzablogger.org/index.php/2009/07/09/reviews/difara-pizza-the-master-of-midwood-brooklyn-ny/

It's a very good review.

Mike or anyone that is interested,

Embedded in the article you found is this link.  http://www.epicurious.com/articlesguides/blogs/editor/2008/03/secrets-of-di-f.html?mbid=rss_epilog

There are more pictures to look at in the above link.

Norma

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2010, 06:08:24 PM »
These are a few more pictures of what Dom's pies look like.  If anyone searches Google Images, there are many pictures of Dom's pies.

Norma

Offline Matthew

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2010, 06:12:31 PM »
I think I made one last night by accident. But since I have never eaten there, I don't know how the crust should be. What I do know is that he uses three types of cheese, fresh mozza, regular mozza and Grana Padano before they go into the oven.

A couple of pics and one for comparison purposes. They look pretty similar.

Looks pretty close to me.  One of your prettiest; very nice indeed.

Matt

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2010, 06:13:31 PM »
Mike, maybe this latest crust you made is better than Dom's crust.  Maybe your Di fara clone is a better pizza.  ;D  I'm sure Dom makes a great pie, but I'm not sure it's that much better than some of our members are making.  

Petezza, I haven't had a real di fara pie so i wouldn't be able to know how close I can get.  I can really only go off of the description of the crust texture and taste compared to the way the crumb looks.  I won't be attempting it until there are plenty of examples of both that I might be able to draw a good solid conclusion on the crust and crumb.   At the moment, there seems to be a lack of both description and pictures.  

I know you have had his pizza and considering your time, effort, and high standards, if you felt that you were able to create a dough that was an improvement over Dom's dough, I have no doubt about it.  In reading your posts about his pizza, I think you are right in that the combination of the high quality of ingredients, attention of detail spent on each pie made by Dom himself, the long lines all play into the mystique of Di Fara.  

Chau

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2010, 06:19:20 PM »
Mike or anyone that is interested,

Embedded in the article you found is this link.  http://www.epicurious.com/articlesguides/blogs/editor/2008/03/secrets-of-di-f.html?mbid=rss_epilog

There are more pictures to look at in the above link.

Norma

Thanks Norma.   I'd love to see some crumb shots if anyone has any.  I can see a little of it in these pictures.  Can those who have had Dom's crust also describe it in detail.  What did you like or not like about it.  I remember from watching some youtube videos that it has a audible crunch to it when he first cuts into it out of the oven.   It also has a light sound to it.  Not like cutting through dense crust but a light crust.   From the looks of the dough it looks to have a good amount of oil to it as well.  Around 3-4% oil???  If he indeed is fermenting only 2 hours or so, then he's using A LOT of yeast.    I also have my doubts that he is using 100% AP flour. 

Chau

Offline Essen1

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2010, 06:30:54 PM »
Looks pretty close to me.  One of your prettiest; very nice indeed.

Matt

Matt,

Thanks, bro! Thank God I saved the formula, too  ;D

It was topped with ham, spinach, garlic and some tuna. Don't laugh...I was just using stuff I had in my pantry.


Chau,

here's a crumb shot, for what it's worth. It looks like a generic dough to me with a very short fermentation window, perhaps 3 hrs tops. But maybe Peter can give us some more details in the crust itself. However, I think what makes this pizza so great is the toppings and cheese blend he uses.

Mike

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2010, 06:36:08 PM »
Matt,

Thanks, bro! Thank God I saved the formula, too  ;D

It was topped with ham, spinach, garlic and some tuna. Don't laugh...I was just using stuff I had in my pantry.


Hey; whatever works.  I've learned that it's easier to find something if you don't look for it.

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2010, 06:39:20 PM »
  i tasted the crust and it had a crunch upon folding , not a lot of flavor ,very lite . to me it seemed like there was shortning or lard in the dough .the texture was very different. i will do better research next trip. if as pete stated he is using his oven as a proofin cabinet i can see a three hour dough.  there wasn't a heavy yeast taste that you would have with a short rise dough.


Offline Essen1

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2010, 06:39:37 PM »
Quote
Mike, maybe this latest crust you made is better than Dom's crust.  Maybe your Di fara clone is a better pizza. I'm sure Dom makes a great pie, but I'm not sure it's that much better than some of our members are making.  

I'm flattered by your confidence in me but I really doubt that I would be able to compete with Dom in any shape or form given the fact the he has more than 40 years of pizza making under his belt.

And I don't know if what I cobbled together last night qualifies as a clone, per se. Looks-wise, maybe. Taste-wise...I really don't know.

Anyway, here's a cool pic of the amount of cheese he uses.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 06:41:09 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2010, 06:46:41 PM »
Wow! look at the patina that peel has...

Offline Essen1

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2010, 06:48:22 PM »
Quote
i tasted the crust and it had a crunch upon folding , not a lot of flavor ,very lite .

That describes the crust from last night to the T. Here are the numbers if anyone wants to take a shot at it:

Flour (100%):    428.05 g  |  15.1 oz | 0.94 lbs
Water (65%):    278.23 g  |  9.81 oz | 0.61 lbs
IDY (.6%):    2.57 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.85 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
Salt (2%):    8.56 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.53 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
Oil (4%):    17.12 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.8 tsp | 1.27 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    6.42 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.61 tsp | 0.54 tbsp

Total (173.1%):   740.95 g | 26.14 oz | 1.63 lbs | TF = N/A

Single Ball:   370.47 g | 13.07 oz | 0.82 lbs


Dissolve sugar and salt in the water (temp ~ 85F), add the flour and yeast and start the mixer. Once it is starting to come together let the oil run down the side of the bowl (got that from Evelyne Slomon) until no dry flour is visible. Rest for 20 then mix for about 8 mins.

Take out of the bowl, divide, cover with a damp tea towel and let rest for 90 mins or up to two full hours. Dust with flour, flip over and shape into skins.

And that's pretty much it.  ;)
Mike

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2010, 06:52:32 PM »
From the looks of the dough it looks to have a good amount of oil to it as well.  Around 3-4% oil???  If he indeed is fermenting only 2 hours or so, then he's using A LOT of yeast.    I also have my doubts that he is using 100% AP flour. 

Chau and Mike,

When I researched the matter, Dom's dough had no oil in it. His flour was a blend of Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour and high-gluten flour, most likely All Trumps. On occasion, Dom will use other sources for his products, but if he has gone to all-purpose flour the only reason that I can come up with is that he is cheapening the product to milk it for all that it is worth. It sounds like he is transitioning the business to a different business model for the benefit of his family, with an example being the apparent opening of a DiFara's in Vegas.

Peter

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2010, 06:53:03 PM »
Mike that is a cool picture.  

Thanks Larry, maybe there are others who will chime in about what they remember of Dom's crust.  a 2-3 hour dough just doesn't seem like it would be ideal for a commercial setting.  What did he do when  the kids were too young to make dough for him?  Close down every 2-3 hours to make more dough?   a 6-8 hour dough would make more sense to me.   Dom doesn't seem like a guy who would change his routine much.  Not to say that he hasn't, but it's more likely that he's been doing the same thing over the last 40 years.  Either way his dough is very fermented like Roberto's dough.  The only way I have been able to get away with that is with commercial yeast.   Also the thinness of the crust plus a 6-8 min bake time would give a really crunchy and dry crust unless it had a lot of oil in it and perhaps a moderately hydrated dough.  

The combination of the proper texture of crust plus the right amount of a good sauce with the right amount of a gooey cheese and I can see why the masses are line up.  

Chau

Offline norma427

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2010, 06:53:47 PM »
That describes the crust from last night to the T. Here are the numbers if anyone wants to take a shot at it:

Flour (100%):    428.05 g  |  15.1 oz | 0.94 lbs
Water (65%):    278.23 g  |  9.81 oz | 0.61 lbs
IDY (.6%):    2.57 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.85 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
Salt (2%):    8.56 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.53 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
Oil (4%):    17.12 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.8 tsp | 1.27 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    6.42 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.61 tsp | 0.54 tbsp

Total (173.1%):   740.95 g | 26.14 oz | 1.63 lbs | TF = N/A

Single Ball:   370.47 g | 13.07 oz | 0.82 lbs


Dissolve sugar and salt in the water (temp ~ 85F), add the flour and yeast and start the mixer. Once it is starting to come together let the oil run down the side of the bowl (got that from Evelyne Slomon) until no dry flour is visible. Rest for 20 then mix for about 8 mins.

Take out of the bowl, divide, cover with a damp tea towel and let rest for 90 mins or up to two full hours. Dust with flour, flip over and shape into skins.

And that's pretty much it.  ;)

Mike,

Your pie does really look like Dom's.   ;D  What kind of flour did you use in your formula?  I wonder if next week if I mix Caputo and Kyrol and turn my oven up, if I can something near your results.  I have never tried a 18" pie, but might give it a go.

Norma

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2010, 06:56:48 PM »
Chau and Mike,

When I researched the matter, Dom's dough had no oil in it. His flour was a blend of Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour and high-gluten flour, most likely All Trumps. On occasion, Dom will use other sources for his products, but if he has gone to all-purpose flour the only reason that I can come up with is that he is cheapening the product to milk it for all that it is worth. It sounds like he is transitioning the business to a different business model for the benefit of his family, with an example being the apparent opening of a DiFara's in Vegas.

Peter

Peter that would make sense for Dom to change things up if that is his motivation.   As far as the oil goes, my gues that it's high in oil comes from watching the interview video.  it could be the light, but the dough (from what I remember) had a slight yellow tint to it indicating coloration from oil.  Also the way it stretched out and considering how thin the crust is with a 6-8m bake time.  If there isn't oil, the crust should be dry and crunchy all the way through.  If there is a soft center to that crust, then that should be indication of the presence of oil or a highly hydrated dough.  That is my best guest though.  I could be completely wrong.   A crumb shot could also reveal a few things.

Mike - thanks for posting your recipe.  It sounds like a good recipe from the looks of it.  I'll give it a try. 

Chau
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 07:00:12 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Watch the Di Fara Documentary 'The Best Thing I Ever Done'
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2010, 06:58:51 PM »
Mike,

Your pie does really look like Dom's.   ;D  What kind of flour did you use in your formula?  I wonder if next week if I mix Caputo and Kyrol and turn my oven up, if I can something near your results.  I have never tried a 18" pie, but might give it a go.

Norma

Norma,

I used King Arthur BF. I might give the AP flour a shot even though I'm not a big fan of it at all. Or perhaps a blend of 60/40 in favor of KABF.

It would be interesting to see how an 18" pie works in your oven.
Mike

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