Author Topic: how much oil in pizza dough?  (Read 10376 times)

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Offline sallam

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how much oil in pizza dough?
« on: November 09, 2010, 07:28:19 PM »
Greetings

I wonder what is the optimum quantity of oil one should use in pizza dough?
I've read here that
Quote
Fats such as butter, vegetable oils, lard, or that contained in eggs affects the development of gluten in breads by coating and lubricating the individual strands of protein and also helping hold the structure together. If too much fat is included in a bread dough, the lubrication effect will cause the protein structures to divide. A fat content of approximately 3% by weight is the concentration that will produce the greatest leavening action[citation needed]. In addition to their effects on leavening, fats also serve to tenderize the breads they are used in and also help to keep the bread fresh longer after baking.
I've tried 3% oil in my pizza dough, and the result was a hugely expanded dough with a light crispy bottom. My kids loved it so much.
I used to add 8% oil, and I didn't know at the time why my pizzas were flat with little oven rise even after 1h. proofing after shaping in trays.

Is 3% the right percentage? how much oil do you recommend?

Another question: during shaping, do you oil your board or flour it?
I tried flour, but the dough had many cuts while stretching, and it was a mess. I find oil much easier to shape the dough with. I do shape my pizzas in trays directly, after coating its surface with oil. I tried shaping on floured board and stretching but it was messy! its too difficult for a newbie.
How do you make a dough elastic enough to stand stretching while shaping?

ps. In my humble dough, I use 1kg AP flour, 2 1/2c (580g) warm water, 3t instant yeast, 1t salt, 2T oil.
I hand-knead, then let rise for 1h, hand-knead again then pre-shape in 2 rounds, let rest for 10min., shape in 2 40cm (15.5in) oiled trays, top, then proof in warm oven for 30min., then bake in same oven, without pre-heating. I'm happy with the results so far. But I would love to improve, with your help and advices.

many thanks.

edit:
What I meant to ask is: does a little oil make a dough rise higher and lighter? and to achieve that goal, should I use 3% oil, or more, or less?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 03:10:29 PM by sallam »
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 07:41:30 PM »
There are alot of factors when deciding how much oil to use.  Some people use none.  The problem of the cuts in your dough is most likely due to hydration and the amount of oil your using.  When I first started cooking pizza's i wished for a beginning to end video of the process.  I have not tried the recipe, but the pizza does look good.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11890.0.html

What is your oven setup, do you cook on a stone or screen or baking sheet.  Is it gas or electric?  How hot will it get?

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buceriasdon

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 08:16:25 PM »
ps. In my humble dough, I use 1kg AP flour, 2 1/2c (580g) warm water, 3t instant yeast, 1t salt, 2T oil.
I hand-knead, then let rise for 1h, hand-knead again then pre-shape in 2 rounds, let rest for 10min., shape in 2 40cm (15.5in) oiled trays, top, then proof in warm oven for 30min., then bake in same oven, without pre-heating. I'm happy with the results so far. But I would love to improve, with your help and advices

Just curious, why do you knead twice? Punching down I understand, but rekneading?
Don

Offline sallam

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 08:26:20 PM »
The problem of the cuts in your dough is most likely due to hydration and the amount of oil your using.
I tried many hydration percentages. 58% is the only dough that I found to be manageable. Any more water makes it a sticky, messy nightmare for my hand-kneading. I'm not interested in mixers and find it immensely pleasing to knead by hand.
Are you sure that cuts has to do with oil quantity?

What is your oven setup, do you cook on a stone or screen or baking sheet.  Is it gas or electric?  How hot will it get?
I bake in hardened foil trays, on standard oven racks, no stones. My oven is gas type. I set it to max temp. (480f - 250c) but I never pre-heat, always bake from cold start  (I noticed that it adds more proofing and rising that way).

I don't like the looks of that pizza in the video. Its as if a truck ran over it, messy and flat like eating a paper.
I'm a home baker.

Offline sallam

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 08:33:29 PM »
Just curious, why do you knead twice? Punching down I understand, but rekneading?
I do punch down then knead again. Its only for a minute or 2. I noticed that a second knead makes a better job for softening the dough and making it silky. Notice that I hand-knead, so the first knead is not as perfect as machine mixers do. I feel that a second knead makes up for any short kneading in the first knead, now that the gluten has done its part, so that kneading becomes much easier and quicker.
I'm a home baker.

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 02:41:22 AM »
some shops use no oil, some use 5-6% and up.   higher oil makes the dough easier to stretch to a point i feel.
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Offline buzz

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 10:23:44 AM »
The amount of oil to use depends on your individual taste. The more oil you use, the richer (and the more fatty/oily/greasy) the dough will turn out to be. The best way to figure out what you like is to experiment with several pizzas with varying oil levels.

For example, my favorite thin crust pizza store uses hardly any oil, but I find this a bit hard to manage at home. If you use 1- 1 1/2 TBS oil per 1 cup AP flour, you will get a tender, flavorful dough with a mix of crispness and tenderness. If you add 3 TBS oil, the result will be a Chicago deep dish-style dough. For my Home Run Inn dough, I use 4 TBS oil.

I use 7 TBS water per cup of flour (no matter what the oil content). It turns out a wet, sticky dough, which I knead briefly with a bit of bench flour.

I find that the more oil in the dough, the easier it is to knead

The more oil you use, the heavier the dough will be and the longer you have to let it rise. With doughs containing 3-4 TBS oil, my rise time is 4 hours.

Offline PizzaVera

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 10:12:46 PM »
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Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 10:21:46 PM »
Pizza dough should not contain oil or sugar. When you add these ingredients you are no longer make pizza dough, you are making enriched bread dough. If you like you pizza made with bread dough then you can add anything you want.
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Offline sallam

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2010, 03:12:06 PM »
Pizza dough should not contain oil or sugar. When you add these ingredients you are no longer make pizza dough, you are making enriched bread dough. If you like you pizza made with bread dough then you can add anything you want.
Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you.
I'm a home baker.


Offline StrayBullet

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2010, 03:36:34 PM »
Pizza dough should not contain oil or sugar. When you add these ingredients you are no longer make pizza dough, you are making enriched bread dough. If you like you pizza made with bread dough then you can add anything you want.

Gotta love OPINIONS :) ...!!!!
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 01:56:25 PM by StrayBullet »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2010, 04:03:36 PM »
sallam,

Since you edited your original post, I decided to do some conversions and to use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with a baker's percent version of your recipe:

All-Purpose Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (0.90366%):
Salt (0.55814%):
Olive Oil (2.69999%):
Total (162.16179%):
1000 g  |  35.27 oz | 2.2 lbs
580 g  |  20.46 oz | 1.28 lbs
9.04 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
27 g | 0.95 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6 tsp | 2 tbsp
1621.62 g | 57.2 oz | 3.57 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation

As you can see from the above dough formulation, you are already using about 2.7% oil (I assumed olive oil but other oils will be about the same percent). So, going from 2.7% to 3% will not be a noticeable increase. If you want to know the role of oil on or in a pizza dough (as well as sugar), you might read Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10219.msg89669/topicseen.html#msg89669, the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7915.msg67914.html#msg67914, Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7301.msg63034/topicseen.html#msg63034 and Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,864.msg7819.html#msg7819.

Discussing the proper amount of oil to use really only makes sense in relation to a particular type or style of dough or pizza. For example, the amount of oil can be as little as 0% for an "elite" NY style dough or up to about 3% for a NY "street" or "slice" style. Neapolitan doughs used to make pizzas to be baked in very high temperature ovens use no oil although some oil is beneficial for a Neapolitan-style dough to be baked in a standard home oven. For an American style dough, such as a Papa John's or Domino's dough, the oil can be as high as about 7%. For a Chicago deep-dish dough, the oil can range from about 8%-30%. Even a cracker-style dough can use a few percent oil. So, the most legitimate question in your case is whether the amount of oil you have been using for your particular dough is the proper or best amount to use. I think the above posts will help answer that question.

The dough recipe you posted is for a so-called "emergency" dough, which is a dough that can be made and used within a few hours. To improve upon that recipe, I suggest that you triple the amount of salt. The amount of salt you have been using may have been part of the reason why the crust was puffy. One of the functions of salt is to regulate the fermentation process. Too little salt can lead to a dough that rises faster.

You can also convert your recipe to a cold fermented version by using less yeast. The amount of yeast to use for a cold fermentation application is determined by the window of usability you would like to have for your dough. Typical periods are up to two or three days of cold fermentation.

To clarify a point, are you using the entire amount of dough to make only two 15.5" pizzas?

Peter



« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 04:49:32 PM by Pete-zza »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2010, 04:16:02 PM »
sallam,

As an addendum to my last post, if you want to read more about the role of salt in a dough, see http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/salt.html and also the BakingBusiness.com article on salt at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8764.msg75936/topicseen.html#msg75936.

Peter

« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 12:45:08 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline sallam

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2010, 05:40:46 PM »
Thanks Peter for your helpful replies. I always look forward to reading your informative posts.
Yes, I use the dough to make 2 15.5in pizzas. I like to make them thick.
As for the salt, I cannot increase it because I suffer from high blood pressure. We love fluffy doughs anyway.

You're right, it takes me only 3 hours from start to finish. I always prefer spending as little time as possible in baking chores.
I'm a home baker.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2010, 06:02:28 PM »
sallam,

Given your situation and personal preferences, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with your recipe. You might experiment with the amount of oil or you might try a cold fermentation version of the recipe. You might also try preheating the oven before baking the pizzas.

Peter

Offline buzz

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Re: how much oil in pizza dough?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2010, 06:31:06 PM »
You should feel free to experiment as you like and discover what appeals to your tasetbuds. There is no right or wrong with pizza--it's what you personally like that co