Author Topic: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough  (Read 2531 times)

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Offline nariman

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Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« on: November 12, 2010, 01:19:47 PM »
Hi,
This is my first post here in this forum. I would like to ask about the rising time for napoletana dough. I use 60% hydration. Is this ok?
Thanks for all tips.
Nariman


Offline andreguidon

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2010, 02:55:04 PM »
it depends also in how much yeast and the temperature... what % of yest are you using ?
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Offline nariman

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2010, 04:04:12 PM »
I'm using almost 5% yeast and in room temperature.
Nariman

Offline Williamgag

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2010, 05:18:50 PM »
thats way too much

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2010, 06:14:55 PM »
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline nariman

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2010, 07:47:15 PM »
Sorry, wrong yeast % from me. I'm using 2 tsp yeast for 400 gram flour in the room temperature.
I think the rising time for my dough is too long: 6+2 hours.

Nariman   

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2010, 08:13:23 PM »
I think the rising time for my dough is too long: 6+2 hours.

What exactly makes you think that it is too long?
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Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2010, 03:27:44 AM »
Sorry, wrong yeast % from me. I'm using 2 tsp yeast for 400 gram flour in the room temperature.
I think the rising time for my dough is too long: 6+2 hours.

Nariman   

so like .3% i think?

6 hour cold 2 hour warmed up?

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Offline nariman

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2010, 07:00:43 AM »
The reason I think my dough stays too long is that the surface of the ball is almost dry. And when I bake the pizza on the stone in the home oven, the crust becomes very hard. Maximum temp in the oven is 275 oC.

- Nariman   


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2010, 07:17:40 AM »
The reason I think my dough stays too long is that the surface of the ball is almost dry. And when I bake the pizza on the stone in the home oven, the crust becomes very hard. Maximum temp in the oven is 275 oC.

- Nariman   

I suspect you may be experiencing a number of problems unrelated to rising time. First of all, make sure your dough is covered during fermenting and proofing. I use sealed plastic containers. The surface should no longer be dry.
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2010, 07:21:47 AM »
If you mean 6+2 as 6 hours cold and 2 hours warm up, then the dough should be covered (nearly sealed) during the cold fermentation to avoid a skin. If you mean that 6+2 is 6 hours bulk and two hours balled, then you will still need to cover the dough so it does not skin over. If your ambient room temp is below 65 degrees F, then you may need to "warm" up the dough a bit as well.

I am not sure, though, if this amount of ferment time is enough for the amount of yeast you are using. It may be, but we need to know more about your workflow. And the temp you are cooking at in your oven is stacked against you when trying to cook a neapolitan style pie.

John

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2010, 07:59:10 AM »
the temperature is low for neapolitan style, you are always going to get a dried and hard crust at that temp..., you should try a NY style for the home oven...
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Offline nariman

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2010, 09:25:28 AM »
Thank you for tips. I will try the NY-style. There are a lotof stuff in this forum. But before that I want to show you the back of my pizza after finishing. The back doesn't get brown and becomes hard. I attach a picture here. I don't thinl this is because of the stone heat, but other causes.
Nariman

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2010, 11:37:06 AM »
can you tell us what is your entire procedure ? what kind of flour ?
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Offline nariman

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2010, 12:24:48 PM »
Ok. Here is the procedure: I use a 13% protein all purpose flour. I live in Scandinavia, so the brands are different here, but this type is one of the best. I mix the flour, water, yeast and salt in a bowl, all by hand. And start kneading the dough in about 10-12 minutes, until I get a elastic and fine ball. Now I oil the surface of the ball, cover the bowl and keep it in the refrigerator for about 16 hours (the ball is almost double). After that I put the ball in the kitchen for about 1-2 hour(s). Then I shape a pizza and put it on a stone in a preheated home oven (275 oC). Before putting the pizza on the stone, I let it warm up about 30 minutes after the oven reaches maximum temperature.

- Nariman 

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2010, 03:30:29 PM »
OK, but what about quantities ?
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Offline nariman

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2010, 04:04:03 PM »
The quantities are: flour=400 gram. 60% water. 1 1/2 ts yeast. 2 ts salt.
 
-Nariman


Offline andreguidon

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2010, 06:50:32 AM »
try something like this :

500g of flour
300g of water
12g of salt
1g of IDY

mixed and knead, leave it 1 hour out of the fridge then put it in the fridge for 20-24 hours. keep a wet clothe over the dough even on a sealed container, after that get in out of the fridge get it to room temp (about 1 hour) ball the dough at whatever size you like, then proof for 3 to 4 hours...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2010, 07:35:14 AM »
keep a wet clothe over the dough even on a sealed container

Andre,

Why do you need a wet cloth if the container is sealed?
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline nariman

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2010, 07:48:02 AM »
Andre.
So you mean that the reason for what happened to my pizza (please look at the picture above), is the working procedure?

-Nariman

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2010, 08:55:23 AM »
Bill, i use a wet clothe because i always get a little tinny dry spot wen cold fermenting, so i decided to always use one, maybe my container is not 100% sealed...

Nariman, i cant tell by that picture what went wrong, sorry...
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 08:45:35 AM »
Andre.
So you mean that the reason for what happened to my pizza (please look at the picture above), is the working procedure?

-Nariman

In addition to the workflow changes Andre suggested, my take is that the raw/hard crust on the bottom is due to not heating the stone enough. Try 90 minutes instead of 30. What type of stone do you have?

Offline nariman

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2010, 12:56:34 PM »
Thank you both. I will try the changes proposed by Andre. Regarding the pizza stein, yes maybe it's not hot enough. I'm using a ceramic commercial pizza stone.
-Nariman   

Offline snelly

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Re: Need help: Rising time for napoletana dough
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2010, 05:24:54 AM »
Hi all,

just reading this thread, it's very interesting! I'm quite new to this and have encountered the same problem it seems.
I use:
Flour: 510g
Water: 330g
Salt: 18g
Culture: 45g (50/50 flour/water)

Mix, then leave for 15 mins. Then knead until smooth and leave for 10 mins. I then covered and left in the fridge for 24 hours. I then uncovered and left out for 3 hours to warm up. Made my pizza and cooked in a conventional oven at highest temp (~275).

I too got a very stiff crust (it was tasty though!).

I think next time (I have 2 more to try tonight and tomorrow night) I will keep completely sealed in the fridge and while warming to room temp.

Does anyone have any ideas? Will the dough always be stiff at this cooking temp? If I can't cook at this temp I shall move onto a NY style.

Any help would be much appreciated :)

Alex