Author Topic: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker  (Read 2167 times)

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Offline bigMoose

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2014, 10:40:35 AM »
John without a doubt, as I tried to take my cooking up to the next level these last 6 months, the quest for consistency is my biggest challenge.  To make it "right" batch after batch, is so elusive.

I just did another batch of my now "signature" sourdough... and my wife wanted more garlic knots out of it.  I upped the recipe, but didn't have enough proportional starter... well I did a calculation in my head of the additional hydration needed on the fly... after the second knead, the dough was cling to and rising up the spiral dough hook... something that doesn't happen when the recipe is "right."  Now as I type, I realize I should have made up the shortfall with a 50%/50% mix of flour and water, and not just tried to add a "bit" more water...


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #81 on: March 15, 2014, 11:09:38 AM »
I used that 50% hydration skin last night. No pics, but it was very good; probably the best I've made by [mostly] following John's blueprint at beginning of this thread. Very Round Table, from what I think I remember of Round Table. But it's just so difficult to roll.

Offline dogboy

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #82 on: March 15, 2014, 04:56:46 PM »
72 hour fridge.  Done with techniques from Fazzari and Ryan. 3 layers.

Offline fazzari

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2014, 10:43:57 PM »
John without a doubt, as I tried to take my cooking up to the next level these last 6 months, the quest for consistency is my biggest challenge.  To make it "right" batch after batch, is so elusive.

I just did another batch of my now "signature" sourdough... and my wife wanted more garlic knots out of it.  I upped the recipe, but didn't have enough proportional starter... well I did a calculation in my head of the additional hydration needed on the fly... after the second knead, the dough was cling to and rising up the spiral dough hook... something that doesn't happen when the recipe is "right."  Now as I type, I realize I should have made up the shortfall with a 50%/50% mix of flour and water, and not just tried to add a "bit" more water...

Consistency is probably the hardest part of any operation....but I'm beginning to think it's probably most important too.  A consistently good product surely wins against an inconsistent great product...  in the commercial field anyway.  So, I think anyway.
John

Offline fazzari

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2014, 10:46:34 PM »
I used that 50% hydration skin last night. No pics, but it was very good; probably the best I've made by [mostly] following John's blueprint at beginning of this thread. Very Round Table, from what I think I remember of Round Table. But it's just so difficult to roll.
Are you going to just keep raising your hydrations to see where it leads you Ryan?  I'm sorry you're finding the dough difficult to roll.  The very first sheeting is the key...if you can get that one as thin as you can, you're on your way.  That, and just walk away and let the dough rest, even overnight in the fridge if you have too.

John

Offline fazzari

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2014, 10:48:33 PM »
72 hour fridge.  Done with techniques from Fazzari and Ryan. 3 layers.
Lookin great DB...see all those pinholes in the crumb....that's exactly what you are after, that is tenderness.  Are you measuring the size and weights of your skin, shooting for a desired thickness factor, or just winging it??
John

Offline dogboy

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #86 on: March 16, 2014, 10:55:40 PM »
Lookin great DB...see all those pinholes in the crumb....that's exactly what you are after, that is tenderness.  Are you measuring the size and weights of your skin, shooting for a desired thickness factor, or just winging it??
John
John,  ty. Your techniques have worked well for me. This was just under 40% hydration and rolling was pretty easy compared to the past before I had found this thread. Chicago Bob sent me this thread and wow what a diffrence it has made.
I have been just winging it. Next I will start weighing the dough balls and going for a consistent size and thickness.
Unfortunately I'll be off from making pizzas for a few months due to work which takes me away from home and kitchens.
 Thanks to this forum for helping me be come consistent as now I use weights for measurments and can replicate the doughs.
Thanks for your help John!!

Offline fazzari

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2014, 10:56:31 PM »
Today at work, I was looking at some of the experiments I have going on.  I took a look at a skin...this is a 36% hydrated, sheeter laminated skin that has been sitting for 5 days.  It has started to rise a bit, it still baked up magnificently, but I wanted to show a cross section of the raw risen dough.  Because it has risen slightly, you can see the nuclei of pockets in the dough.  This is exactly what lamination does...it squeezes pockets and makes them teeny....this is what gives this crust its super tenderness.  Look very closely, do you see any layers?  Here's what I can tell you:  the very top quarter and the very bottom quarter probably have 4 layers apiece.  The middle half is made up of scrap dough.  I can't see any difference..the dough all looks the same.

John

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2014, 09:57:17 AM »
Are you going to just keep raising your hydrations to see where it leads you Ryan?  I'm sorry you're finding the dough difficult to roll.  The very first sheeting is the key...if you can get that one as thin as you can, you're on your way.  That, and just walk away and let the dough rest, even overnight in the fridge if you have too.

John

I think 50% is about the upper hydration limit for this kind of dough; maybe 52% (at least with this specific flour). I'll probably try this with AP flour sooner or later. If I do, I'll do 40% hydration again. I think it'll be much more doable with AP.

I know what you mean about getting the dough as thin as possible before folding, because that's how I've done my Tommy's dough for quite a while.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2014, 10:27:08 AM »
John,  ty. Your techniques have worked well for me. This was just under 40% hydration and rolling was pretty easy compared to the past before I had found this thread. Chicago Bob sent me this thread and wow what a diffrence it has made.
I have been just winging it. Next I will start weighing the dough balls and going for a consistent size and thickness.
Unfortunately I'll be off from making pizzas for a few months due to work which takes me away from home and kitchens.
 Thanks to this forum for helping me be come consistent as now I use weights for measurments and can replicate the doughs.
Thanks for your help John!!
dogboy, are you going to Africa again for your job?
We'll miss your work here...be sure to check in and say hi whenever you can. :chef:

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline dogboy

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2014, 10:49:16 AM »
dogboy, are you going to Africa again for your job?
We'll miss your work here...be sure to check in and say hi whenever you can. :chef:

Bob
CB for sure I will be checking in here and drooling quite often. I may not be able to practice the art of pizza making but I can still keep learning.
I will be located somewhere in the middle east.

Offline fazzari

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Re: Using every trick in the book for an excellent laminated cracker
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2014, 05:25:43 PM »
I think 50% is about the upper hydration limit for this kind of dough; maybe 52% (at least with this specific flour). I'll probably try this with AP flour sooner or later. If I do, I'll do 40% hydration again. I think it'll be much more doable with AP.

I know what you mean about getting the dough as thin as possible before folding, because that's how I've done my Tommy's dough for quite a while.

Ryan
Here is an experiment I did back in 2007 regarding higher hydrations on a laminated crust
John
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5889.0