Author Topic: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone  (Read 1349 times)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2016, 11:53:35 AM »
You might want to try Bridgford pepperoni (the 1 lb stick) if you have a way to slice it. I don't know if you can get it at Publix (or whatever grocery store is convenient for you), but I know Kroger carries it, and I think Giant Eagle does, too.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Floridian

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2016, 02:33:47 PM »
You might want to try Bridgford pepperoni (the 1 lb stick) if you have a way to slice it. I don't know if you can get it at Publix (or whatever grocery store is convenient for you), but I know Kroger carries it, and I think Giant Eagle does, too.
Amazon has the product and it comes in three-packs.

https://www.amazon.com/Bridgford-Pepperoni-World-16-Ounce-Sticks/dp/B0029JW96I/?tag=pmak-20

Good price too and available with Prime. Will be buying when I run out of my Ezzo. Thanks for the heads up!
Tommy's pizza fan. Trying to emulate Tommy's using Aimless Ryan's recipe

Offline 333meg

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2016, 03:58:50 PM »
Yes, I want to eat Tommy's with you and your family when you come to Cbus in October!
Pursuing pizza has put me into an airplane, in a car and on road trips of hundreds of miles...

Offline Floridian

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2016, 07:22:15 PM »
Yes, I want to eat Tommy's with you and your family when you come to Cbus in October!

Great! I will PM you when the date gets closer to iron out details

Made the dough today and I am having a problem The dough will not pick up all of the flour. I had 44g of flour not picked up. I have had a problem with this pretty much every time I have made the dough. I am pretty sure my weights are correct. I hesitate to add more water per Ryan but I am at a loss. Anybody have any insight? I let the mixer go for quite a while, varying the speeds too.
Tommy's pizza fan. Trying to emulate Tommy's using Aimless Ryan's recipe

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2016, 08:44:56 PM »
Sounds like you have a j-hook/c-hook. The pizza I made in my video was very crispy, even though I used 48% water. Maybe try that, and use a liberal amount of bench flour while rolling.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Floridian

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2016, 08:37:40 PM »
Sounds like you have a j-hook/c-hook. The pizza I made in my video was very crispy, even though I used 48% water. Maybe try that, and use a liberal amount of bench flour while rolling.
I know the 48% is expressed in a bakers percentage but what is the gram weight? After watching your video (again) I added a bit of water until the flour was all picked up and the dough looked like yours. I probably added too much water. I also liked the proof in a warm oven as working with warm dough was MUCH easier than cold dough that was in the fridge for 24 hours. The skins are in the fridge as we speak (or type) so I will update tomorrow after the cook. I also didn't use much bench flour at all in my previous attempts; used much more today.   
Tommy's pizza fan. Trying to emulate Tommy's using Aimless Ryan's recipe

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2016, 10:23:12 PM »
I can't answer the question about weight in grams. It depends on the total weight of your dough batch. Also, when you change the percentage of any ingredient, but don't change the batch weight, the weight of every ingredient changes a tiny bit. When I increased the water by 5%, most of the weight of that extra water came out of the flour weight.

Yeah, ease of rolling the dough is partly why I did it with warm dough, pretty much right after mixing. I probably picked up that trick from fazzari. My best-yet post doesn't reflect this because I hadn't thought of doing it that way when I wrote the best-yet post, nor have I "perfected" a better way since then. It's impractical to roll cold dough, both at home and in a pizzeria setting. But I haven't come anywhere near perfecting the warm oven method; especially because I'm also trying to figure out how much IDY to use, since using IDY is new to me.

I am becoming inclined to think it might be a good idea to do a somewhat lengthy room-temperature (warm) bulk ferment (2-3 hours?) with this dough, as opposed to the short oven rest or overnight cold bulk ferment. Partly because I associate a heavily fermented/alcohol flavor with Tommy's pizza, and I know they don't add alcohol to the dough.

Keep in mind, I almost always change things up a little when I make dough, because I'm always looking for the right way to do it, and because there are so many things to try that I'll never get to try. If I do it the same way every time, I can't learn anything. My best-yet is good, but I know it's not perfect. Especially because you're not going to get the same pizza at OSU Tommy's that you'd get if you order the same thing at UA Tommy's.

As I said in the video, there's a million different ways you can do laminated cracker style pizza. Ive tried so many different things with this style, and just about everything I've tried has turned out really good, regardless of whether it felt like I was eating Tommy's.

I look forward to seeing your results tomorrow.

EDIT: Sorry if this post is confusing. I kinda want to delete it and rewrite it.

EDIT 2: There are probably two things I feel like I could confidently change about my best-yet formula/workflow. First, I'd say to keep the skin cold for 24 hours before baking. Second, I'd probably say to use 2% malt syrup instead of sugar. Either works fine, but malt syrup is probably truer to Tommy's. I still don't know much about malt syrup or how it affects everything, though, because I've only used it a handful of times; only once with Tommy's style.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 04:06:11 PM by Aimless Ryan »
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Floridian

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2016, 06:12:30 PM »
Well, not happy with my fifth attempt. I followed Ryan's video and had the skins in the fridge for 24 hours. I got zero bubbles and no lamination. I think the issue was I pulled the skins out to early prior to the pizzas going into the oven. I tried to do 10 minutes out to dry the skin out so it would not stick to the peel. I am guessing that the skin got too warm. The second skin was out even longer.

I am using non diastatic malt powder in lieu of sugar and have had some really good results. I think I am going to try malt syrup in the future

Oh well
Tommy's pizza fan. Trying to emulate Tommy's using Aimless Ryan's recipe

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2016, 08:07:55 PM »
If you strictly followed what I did in the video, I'm not necessarily surprised by your results. Sorta.

Although I thought it was a good pizza, the pizza in the video came out kind of underfermented. It did have bubbles and clear laminations, but the fermentation was definitely too young when I baked. (I hope what I just said makes sense, because I don't think that was textbook terminology.)

Like my pizza in the video, I suspect yours probably would have been better with another 24 hours in the fridge or a longer bulk ferment. One thing I learned by making that pizza is that the very short bulk ferment caused underfermentation issues. If I was to do that over right now, and I could only change one thing, I would probably give it a longer bulk ferment (or, alternatively, divide it into dough balls/pieces immediately after mixing, then ferment at room temperature for considerably longer than I bulk fermented).

I don't know for sure, but I would not expect 10 minutes out of the fridge to cause that kind of issue.

Just keep trying. My instructions are only one way of doing it, and you wouldn't have mistaken the pizza in the video for Tommy's.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 08:11:42 PM by Aimless Ryan »
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline rkrider99

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2016, 07:51:13 AM »
Well, I finally had to try it. Never had Tommy's, but I do remember thin crispy laminated pizza's from Chicago.

I did make a few changes. Followed the recipe for making the dough, but changed the yeast amount and did a 24-30 hour RT ferment. Made the dough on Friday afternoon, around noon, and left it in bulk to RT ferment until Saturday, around 9 AM, when I balled them, stuck them in oiled containers and left them on the counter top for an additional 8 hours at RT. 77 degrees the whole time.

Excellent flavor and was super easy rolling out super thin. Crispy, but very tender. The wife said it was the best pizza I had made to date. The first 3 pics show a cheese, sausage, onion, green pepper, and green olive pizza. The last 3 pictures show a pizza I made the week later, which really show off the layers of goodness.

Tom

Offline 333meg

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2016, 10:59:20 AM »
Nice pizza Tom! I am glad to see your results and l like hearing your changes, nice photos. 

Floridian, I have been continually following Ryan's recipe as far fermenting which is mix dough 5pmish, RT 4 hour ferment until 9-10pm, whole dough ball goes into the fridge overnight, pull out dough from fridge 2pm next day, divide dough into 4 with 2 dough pieces remaining on counter in covered containers for 2 hours. The 2 hours on the counter before rolling makes it easy rolling. Then the skin goes back into the fridge, which with Fazzari and Ryan's recommendation will be now for 12-24 hours, whereas I had been only leaving the skin in the fridge for 2-4. I have been experiencing too much lamination, too many bubbles. So much so that where the bubbles form, I lose my cheese and pepperoni. It's so interesting for me to hear your results. I just don't know why I have too many bubbles and you not enough. We'll keep on trying! It's so much fun.
Pursuing pizza has put me into an airplane, in a car and on road trips of hundreds of miles...

Offline bigMoose

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2016, 11:16:07 AM »
So the following is the new "optimum" work flow?
... mix dough 5pmish, RT 4 hour ferment until 9-10pm, whole dough ball goes into the fridge overnight, pull out dough from fridge 2pm next day, divide dough into 4 with 2 dough pieces remaining on counter in covered containers for 2 hours. The 2 hours on the counter before rolling makes it easy rolling. Then the skin goes back into the fridge... for 12-24 hours...


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2016, 03:40:12 PM »
I love seeing other people's pictures of pizzas they made by following my outline/instructions. I think just about all of them look better than just about all of mine. I'm also glad people are making this style at all. I am inclined to think it may be a dying style. Still, it seems like a lot of pizza places around here do laminated crust, although not necessarily laminated cracker style.

The pizza above looks awesome.

There's a place right around the corner from me that does laminated crust. Their pizza is different than what we're all going for here because they keep the skins at room temperature for at least a little while before baking. Consequently, the lamination is not as noticeable, and it's a much more airy pizza than Tommy's.

Makes me want to make a trip to Tommy's. Unfortunately, I may never drive again. So when's that date going to be, Meg? I'm just dying to analyze their pizza with someone else who is just dying to analyze their pizza. Maybe even both Lane Avenue stores.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline 333meg

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2016, 11:57:44 PM »
I apologize for my lack of form on Pizzamaking, bigMoose. I most certainly wasn't trying to come close to "optimum", but thank you for helping me along.

Yes, Ryan we are going to eat Tommy's! I'll text you.
Pursuing pizza has put me into an airplane, in a car and on road trips of hundreds of miles...

Offline bigMoose

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2016, 09:28:14 AM »
My old age is starting to make me come across wrong more often these days, I think... Nothing to apologize for.  My ? must have confused or altered my intended meaning of asking if this synopsis was considered the new "baseline" or "optimum" to try.

I like this style a lot, and am trying to get it down.  I summarized the workflow because it had a different twist than I was used to.  It looked like you added a step (from fazzari I think) of a second refrigeration of the skin after rolling.  I have not been doing that.

Edit: I just mixed up a batch to follow this procedure.  I liked how the dough ball came together.  More oil at 11% than I have been using (8% or below.)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 02:18:55 PM by bigMoose »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2016, 12:58:56 PM »
If there is any friction between anyone and Dave (bigMoose), y'all need to know Dave is about the nicest guy in the world. He's a big, cuddly teddy bear.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline clarkth

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Re: MY attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone
« Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 05:23:23 PM »
Well, I finally had to try it. Never had Tommy's, but I do remember thin crispy laminated pizza's from Chicago.

I did make a few changes. Followed the recipe for making the dough, but changed the yeast amount and did a 24-30 hour RT ferment. Made the dough on Friday afternoon, around noon, and left it in bulk to RT ferment until Saturday, around 9 AM, when I balled them, stuck them in oiled containers and left them on the counter top for an additional 8 hours at RT. 77 degrees the whole time.

Excellent flavor and was super easy rolling out super thin. Crispy, but very tender. The wife said it was the best pizza I had made to date. The first 3 pics show a cheese, sausage, onion, green pepper, and green olive pizza. The last 3 pictures show a pizza I made the week later, which really show off the layers of goodness.

Tom

Tom,

These look fantastic!  Can you post your final recipe and process?  I want to try this out over the holiday weekend  ;D